Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

kaylagrl · Nov 5, 2014

We will see how long it takes this thread to dissolve into mayhem.I dont know whether Ive been misunderstood or people just dont believe what God said about Israel. Ive been accused of being the devil over what I believe here and being an immature Christian or not one at all.So I will try to be clear here and maybe I can be restored the way Israel will be in the end.
To those who have called me all forms of evil,not a Christian and immature here is my background and where Im coming from so you can know I am a Christian even though I may not agree with your view of the Bible.I was raised in a Pentecostal church all my life I asked Jesus into my heard at 7yrs old.At around 10yrs I felt a calling on my life to maybe be a missionary.By 16yrs of age my family began travelling as a gospel group.I traveled to hundreds of chruches over 20yrs. We went to Baptist,Wesleyan,Pentecostal,Catholic,Nazarene and every church in between sharing the gospel through song.Ive heard more sermons then you can shake a stick at. Discussed with more pastors then most will ever meet.Am I bragging on myself? No,I like Paul,have no room to boast.Ive lost my way at times and certainly have done wrong.But to those who have defamed my character and called me both antiChrist and unchristian there is my background.Not to boast but for folks to understand where I come from.
Now I was raised very strictly by my parents on several things.One being that the Jews are Gods chosen people.To bless them is to be blessed and to curse them is to be cursed.Is Israel perfect in everything it does? No,none of us are perfect until we reach heaven.That being said Israel is not a terrorist country.I believe we should be very careful as to how we speak of Israel and the Jews.Dont think so?Look at all the countries that kicked out the Jews and how they were punished for it.Many of the countries dont even exist today.
Before I get blamed for a wall of text I will start with these Scriptures...

Gen 12 ...Now [SUP]a[/SUP]the LORD said to Abram, " [SUP]1[/SUP]Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;And [SUP]a[/SUP]I will make you a great nation, And [SUP]b[/SUP]I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;And [SUP]a[/SUP]I will bless those who bless you, And the one who [SUP]1[/SUP]curses you I will [SUP]2[/SUP]curse. [SUP]b[/SUP]And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."Abram passed through the land as far as the site of [SUP]a[/SUP]Shechem, to the [SUP]1[/SUP]oak of Moreh. Now the Canaanite was then in the land.The LORD [SUP]a[/SUP]appeared to Abram and said, " [SUP]b[/SUP]To your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants I will give this land." So he built [SUP]c[/SUP]an altar there to the LORD who had appeared to him.

Gen 15...It came about when the sun had set, that it was very dark, and behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a flaming torch which [SUP]a[/SUP]passed between these pieces.On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, " [SUP]a[/SUP]To your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants I have given this land, From [SUP]b[/SUP]the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates:[SUP]a[/SUP]the Kenite and the Kenizzite and the Kadmonite and the Hittite and the Perizzite and the Rephaim and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Girgashite and the Jebusite."

Gen 17..."I will [SUP]1[/SUP]establish My [SUP]a[/SUP]covenant between Me and you, And I will [SUP]b[/SUP]multiply you exceedingly."Abram [SUP]a[/SUP]fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying,"As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, And you will be the father of a [SUP]a[/SUP]multitude of nations."No longer shall your name be called [SUP]1[/SUP]Abram, But [SUP]a[/SUP]your name shall be [SUP]2[/SUP]Abraham; For [SUP]b[/SUP]I have made you the father of a multitude of nations."I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and [SUP]a[/SUP]kings will come forth from you.
"I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants after you throughout their generations for an [SUP]EVERLASTING[/SUP] covenant, [SUP]b[/SUP]to be God to you and [SUP]c[/SUP]to your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants after you.
" [SUP]a[/SUP]I will give to you and to your [SUP]1[/SUP]descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and [SUP]b[/SUP]I will be their God."......
But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you [SUP]a[/SUP]a son, and you shall call his name [SUP]1[/SUP]Isaac; and [SUP]b[/SUP]I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his [SUP]2[/SUP]descendants after him.
"As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him, and [SUP]a[/SUP]will make him fruitful and will multiply him exceedingly. [SUP]b[/SUP]He shall [SUP]1[/SUP]become the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a [SUP]c[/SUP]great nation
But [FONT=arial, serif] My [/FONT]covenant [FONT=arial, serif]I will establish with [/FONT]Issac.

[FONT=arial, serif] Here we see the beginning of Gods covenant with Abraham.And to the land and peoples of Israel.He said he would establish his covenant with Issac!! I will leave the post for now and continue a bit later to prove Israel is still under Gods covenant and the Jews his chosen people.I will not be answering anyone who name calls,is rude or tries to "rebuke" me because they disagree.If you disagree you disagree with Scripture not me. I'm quoting Gods Words not mine.So lets be Christlike in our discussion.Thank you all and have a blessed day.[/FONT]

JimmieD · Nov 5, 2014

kaylagrl said:

Biblical Israel doesn't exist today either. There is no temple, no king, no high priest, no priests, no sacrifice, no prophet, no rule by Torah, .... The system is completely different, and foreign. Israel today is secular and ruled by democratic principles and parliamentary rule (rather than theocratic king and Torah rule). How can anyone really say this is biblical Israel?

We could go on with major differences too.

It's also possible that people just disagree with your interpretation of the bible.

But you're giving your interpretation. The problem isn't the words you're quoting, it's the way those words are understood.

john832 · Nov 5, 2014

JimmieD said:

Israel is a family of people grown large. They have become several nations. The real problem seems to be that Israel is not the Jews and the Jews are not Israel. The first time the word "Jew(s)" occurs in the scripture is in II Kings 16:6 and the context here is that Israel is at war with the Jews.

Israel is...

Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

Ephraim and Manasseh.

The Jews (Judah) are a separate tribe and only one of 12 (13)...

Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
Gen 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
Gen 49:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

Whereas Ephraim and Manasseh (the two tribes that carried the name Israel forward) had these promises...

Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
Gen 49:23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
Gen 49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel

Gen 49:25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
Gen 49:26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

Until one begins to understand that there were 12 (actually 13, Ephraim and Manasseh each received an inheritance in the land and were the sons of Jacob) tribes not just one known as the Jews (Judah), he cannot properly understand much of scripture.

SeaBass · Nov 5, 2014

If the fleshly Hebrews are still God's chosen then all Gentiles are lost without any hope.

2) God's covenant with fleshly Israel was "everlasting" but was also conditional, that is, God would do His part but if Israel failed to keep their part of the covenant then God was no longer obligated to fulfill His part.

ChristIsGod · Nov 5, 2014

Re: Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People
________________________________________________

Because He said so!

Smile & have a Happy day in Christ, all.

Bride · Nov 5, 2014

kaylagrl said:

Beautiful scriptures, thank you for providing

I love how the Promises to Abraham are fulfilled in Christ in the New Covenant in His Blood! That's perhaps why it is talked about so much there!

(Luk 1:54)
He has helped Israel his servant, in order to remember mercy,
(Luk 1:55)
(as he spoke to our fathers,) to Abraham and to his seed for ever.
(Mat 1:1)

Book of the generation of Jesus Christ, Son of David, Son of Abraham.

(Mat 3:9)
And do not think to say within yourselves, We have Abraham for our father; for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham.

(Mat 22:32)
*I* am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not God of the dead, but of the living.

(Gal 3:16)
But to Abraham were the promises addressed, and to his seed: he does not say, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed; which is Christ.

(Gal 3:29)
but if *ye* are of Christ, then ye are Abraham's seed, heirs according to promise.

　

(Gal 4:6)
But because ye are sons, God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

The fulfillment of the Abrahamic Promises

Woohoo! Isn't this an incredible Blessing? We are Children of Abraham throught Jesus! Now we can cry "Abba Father"!

Fulfilling;

(Gen 17:5)
And thy name shall no more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of a multitude of nations have I made thee.

(Gen 17:6)
And I will make thee exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

　

And KINGS! It get's even more fun as we see this revelation unfold.

(1Pe 2:9)
But *ye* are a chosen race, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a possession, that ye might set forth the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness to his wonderful light;

(1Co 4:8)
Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you.

(1Ti 6:15)
Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

(Rev 1:6)
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Great Thread! Oh how I just love going back to the Abrahamic Covenant and the Rood of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, thank you

SeaBass · Nov 5, 2014

1) If the fleshly Hebrews are still God's chosen then all Gentiles are lost without any hope.

2) God's covenant with fleshly Israel was "everlasting" but was also conditional, that is, God would do His part but if Israel failed to keep their part of the covenant then God was no longer obligated to fulfill His part.

Addedum:

Ex 19:5 "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:"

Israel did not obey thereby did NOT fulfill their part of the covenant so God had no obligation to Israel to fulfill His part...God said "Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation." Ex 32:10. Again God has no obligation to Israel after Israel disobeyed and broke the covenant so God could have destroyed Israel and made of Moses a great nation.

kaylagrl · Nov 5, 2014

john832 said:

Israel is a family of people grown large. They have become several nations. The real problem seems to be that Israel is not the Jews and the Jews are not Israel. The first time the word "Jew(s)" occurs in the scripture is in II Kings 16:6 and the context here is that Israel is at war with the Jews.

Israel is...

Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

Ephraim and Manasseh.

The Jews (Judah) are a separate tribe and only one of 12 (13)...

Gen 49:8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father's children shall bow down before thee.
Gen 49:9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
Gen 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:
Gen 49:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk.

Whereas Ephraim and Manasseh (the two tribes that carried the name Israel forward) had these promises...

Gen 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
Gen 49:23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
Gen 49:24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel

Gen 49:25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:
Gen 49:26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

Until one begins to understand that there were 12 (actually 13, Ephraim and Manasseh each received an inheritance in the land and were the sons of Jacob) tribes not just one known as the Jews (Judah), he cannot properly understand much of scripture.

Hummm let me look at that and think on it....

john832 · Nov 5, 2014

SeaBass said:

Why does that have to be the case? The Gentiles and Israel will be God's people in the Millennium so why must one exclude the other?

Snuck this in under the time limit...

Isa 19:24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
Isa 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

john832 · Nov 5, 2014

SeaBass said:

Part 2) To whom is the New Covenant made?

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

kaylagrl · Nov 5, 2014

JimmieD said:

Ok if thats my interpretation can you give me yours? Has God taken His hand off Israel? Has the church replaced Israel.I dont believe these doctrines myself.But sometimes its hard to be clear on what people believe.Thanks

notuptome · Nov 5, 2014

Since Israel is apostate spiritually they will receive Gods judgment in the form of the great tribulation.

With their lips they do worship God but their hearts are far from God.

For the cause of Christ
roger

JesusIsAll · Nov 5, 2014

God's promises to Israel are without revocation, even the time of the tribulation the "time of Jacob's trouble." God is not done with Israel, and Israel will one day repent and come to know their Lord Jesus. Beware of anybody teaching any flavor of "replacement theology." It's a most devilish lie, at the heart of it the vileness of Antisemitism.

kennethcadwell · Nov 5, 2014

The new covenant was made for the Jews and gentiles alike.
There is no difference between the two of us now besides traditions that we follow.
The bible makes it clear that the gentile believers do not have to follow all the same old traditions as the Jews chose to still follow from the old covenants.

But between Jews and gentiles alike it now all falls on belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Rather you are a Jew or gentile your salvation now falls on rather you believe in Jesus Christ and follow Him.
If you chose not to follow Him then you have no salvation.

SeaBass · Nov 5, 2014

If fleshly Israel is still God's chosen people, how then did this elect, chosen people become lost, Rom 10:1 cast away Rom 11:15-25? Why was just a remnant of fleshly Israel saved, Rom 9:27; Rom 11:5?

biscuit · Nov 5, 2014

Biblical Israel doesn't exist today either. There is no temple, no king, no high priest, no priests, no sacrifice, no prophet, no rule by Torah, .... The system is completely different, and foreign. Israel today is secular and ruled by democratic principles and parliamentary rule (rather than theocratic king and Torah rule). How can anyone really say this is biblical Israel?

Oh really !!!

1. covenant with God still exist; He made a promise and He is keeping it.
2.Israel's sacred land given by God
3. The Jewish faith dominates social, political & economic affairs
4. surrounded by a pack of wolves, she continues to exist
5. all of the above indicate that God's love & protection is in existence.

Bride · Nov 5, 2014

ChristIsGod said:

Re: Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People
________________________________________________

QUOTE]

And I AM THE PERFECT EXAMPLE!

Raised in Jerusalem, I didn't know that I WASN'T Chosen, until Jesus the Messiah to Israel revealed Himself to me. Just as promised.

(Jer 3:14)
Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

And He has brought me to Zion, exactly as He promised Israel, in the New Marriage Covenant in Christ' Blood. It's my fav verse, it's why it is my signature

Thank you Jesus!

prodigal · Nov 5, 2014

there is one way thats through Jesus and if any teach a different way we are to avoid them as the scriptures teach

SeaBass · Nov 5, 2014

john832 said:

This Christian dispensation that is now is the last dispensation, so if anyone will be saved they must be saved NOW through Christ by becoming a Christian....Christians, not fleshly Israel, is God's chosen people now, Gal 3:28; Col 3:11...anyone can become God's chosen, a Christian.
No salvation after the grave, no (pre) millenium where one can find salvation then, one is either saved now in this life or lost eternally.

SeaBass · Nov 5, 2014

john832 said:

The new covenant is made with Christians and anyone can become a Christian as Jews did in Acts 2 and Gentiles in Acts 10.....Gal 3:28; Col 3:11 in Christ there is no Jew or Gentile just Christians.

Except for the remnant in Acts 2 that obeyed the gospel words preached by Peter, most of the Jews rejected this new covenant.

Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

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