Gods Mercy,Why the Jews are Still Gods Chosen People

[SeaBass]

That is pretty sick. Essentially denies the Holocaust. Why don't you go to the Middle East and tell that to Hamas? They may even give you a Nobel Peace Prize for that theory.

Where did I deny that millions of people were killed during the Holocaust?

If a person claims to be a Jew, how would you go about proving beyond any shadow of a doubt he truly is a Jew from one of the 12 tribes?

 

[crossnote]

Where did I deny that millions of people were killed during the Holocaust?

If a person claims to be a Jew, how would you go about proving beyond any shadow of a doubt he truly is a Jew from one of the 12 tribes?

I'm not a geneologist so you tell me. God's Word declares it so, and like I've said Hitler and the present day growing antisemitic movement has little problem in that area.

 

[SeaBass]

Lev 26 "but if they repent, I will remember my promise and return them to the land"
Ez 37, " I will return Judah and Israel to the land from where I took them, And I will make them one nation again, never again to be broken, And I will remove their sin, and they will no longer worship their idols, and commit their sin's but I will be their god.
Rom 11, "dont be wise in your own understanding, But Israel is blinded in part until the time of the gentiles is complete, All Israel will be SAVED, and I will remember my promise

This is only three, there are SO MANY more. But you have been shown these, and never even respond to them, You keep saying the same stuff over and over, like a broken record.

None of these passages says God will give back the promised land to the Jews. Eze 37:21ff for example is a prophecy about the coming kingdom, Christ's NT church.

Eze 37:21 "And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:"

This verse was already fulfilled when God chose Israel out of all nations to be His chosen people and brought them out of Egypt and gave them the promised land.

Eze 37:22,23 "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God."

This is spoken in future/prophetic tense. They are no longer divided into a physical northern or southern kingdom but one spiritual kingdom would be formed. This "one nation" would be the church and "one King" being Christ. This is prophetic about the Jews being brought into the Christian dispensation which was fulfilled at Pentecost of Acts 2 with Jews entering the church. "... and one king shall be king to them all..." > Judah (Jews) and Ephraim (Gentiles) would be joined together under one King (Christ) in the church. There would be a joining of these "two sticks" (verses 15-17) Judah and Ephraim >>."The meaning of the oracle is clear enough. It foretold the eventual reunion of Ephraim and Judah, the Northern Israel and the Southern Israel, Samaria and Jerusalem under one king, thus healing the long breach that had begun in the days of Rehoboam who succeeded Solomon."
Coffman Commentary

--------------------------------------

Rom 11:26 "And so all Israel shall be saved:" This is a reference to spiritual Israel the church, NOT fleshly Israel for Rom 11;15-22 plainly says fleshly Israel was cast off. Only a "remnant" of the Jews obeyed the gospel Rom 11:5. Most rejected the gospel and are lost. From the time of Christ until today those that are Jews that continued to reject Christ and died will be lost. So there is no way for all fleshly Israel to be saved but ALL that became part of Christ's kingdom the church, spiritual Israel will be save.

 

[SeaBass]

I'm not a geneologist so you tell me. God's Word declares it so, and like I've said Hitler and the present day growing antisemitic movement has little problem in that area.

I cannot tell you, no one can tell you for all the records have been destroyed.

But I asked YOU so YOU tell me how YOU would go about in proving one is Jew or not?

 

[SeaBass]

your right about romans 9,

but we are not talking about romans 9. we are talking about romans 11. Stick to the topic. Rom 11 says God is not done with Israel. Listen to God. not your own understanding.

Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 go together. Rom 9 say God can have mercy upon whom He will have mercy. It does not say God must have mercy upon the fleshly Jews during some future time.

 

[SeaBass]

No it did not. The law still had a purpose It never saved anyone, it condemned everyone.

Just like it does today. WHich is why we need grace. Without Grace, you and I will spend eternity in hell, because the law will condemn us.

There was both grace and law in the OT. Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord but Noah was also under law.
Grace does not nullify law.

Ez 33:13 "Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people."

Deut 7:12 "Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:"

There was grace/mercy to those that obeyed God.

 

[SeaBass]

the roman army did not make the promise, God did. You think God needs proof? Do you even think when you post things? You make God so incapable of doing anything, I pray people see the God your trying to preach, and how HUMAN he is.

I said I see that God providentially used the Roman army (AD70) to destroy all documents that recorded Jewish ancestry.

 

[SeaBass]

To answer the question, of this thread, I would just say, Romans 11 tells us that Israel is still God's chosen nation and will always be so; But only the "elect" to salvation will be saved of and from all nations. The election of Israel has nothing to do with the few who are "elect" of all nations to salvation. BUT, Because Rev. 21:24 says "The nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it."; I would tend to thinks nation will exist on the new earth. Love to all, Hoffco

Rom 11 says FLESHLY Israel was cast off, it is of SPIRITUAL Israel, the church that all shall be saved

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Until you understand the NATURE of the Kingdom,you CAN NOT understand those passages. The Israelites of Jesus day did the same. They misunderstood the nature of the kingdom.

You are aware that they DID try to make Jesus an EARTHLY King.

John 6

6 Some time after this, Jesus crossed to the far shore of the Sea of Galilee (that is, the Sea of Tiberias), [SUP]2 [/SUP]and a great crowd of people followed him because they saw the signs he had performed by healing the sick. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then Jesus went up on a mountainside and sat down with his disciples. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The Jewish Passover Festival was near.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]When Jesus looked up and saw a great crowd coming toward him, he said to Philip, “Where shall we buy bread for these people to eat?” [SUP]6 [/SUP]He asked this only to test him, for he already had in mind what he was going to do.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Philip answered him, “It would take more than half a year’s wages[SUP][a][/SUP] to buy enough bread for each one to have a bite!”
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Another of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, spoke up, [SUP]9 [/SUP]“Here is a boy with five small barley loaves and two small fish, but how far will they go among so many?”
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” There was plenty of grass in that place, and they sat down (about five thousand men were there). [SUP]11 [/SUP]Jesus then took the loaves, gave thanks, and distributed to those who were seated as much as they wanted. He did the same with the fish.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]When they had all had enough to eat, he said to his disciples, “Gather the pieces that are left over. Let nothing be wasted.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]So they gathered them and filled twelve baskets with the pieces of the five barley loaves left over by those who had eaten.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]After the people saw the sign Jesus performed, they began to say, “Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world.” [SUP]15 [/SUP]Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again to a mountain by himself.

The nature of a Kingdom is to have a ruler as King and to govern people subjected under Him.

"This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world" - Yes, they did try to make him a king not understanding that the OT paints two pictures of the coming Messiah as a suffering servant AND a conquering King - they were trying to make him king before he served his purpose as the suffering servant. They were only looking for the conquering king and NOT the suffering servant who needed to suffer for the sins of the world. It was not TIME for Him to be the conquering king. But there is coming a time when He will return as King of Kings to conquer.


Zechariah 14:3,4a, 9 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives . . . . And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD and his name one.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The onus is on you all to show that ANY of the apostles understood a restored physical kingdom AFTER Jesus ascended into heaven. How did the apostles who were inspired by the Holy Spirit MISS IT? Never mind the fact that the VERY same day Jesus ascended into Heaven THEY WERE STILL looking for the physical Kingdom,and yet somehow they NEVER mention a physical kingdom again. How is that even possible? How is it they MISSED Israel being once again being restored to the land?
You forget they were of ISRAEL and it was IMPORTANT to them. The onus is on you to show that they STILL understood it to be a PHYSICAL KINGDOM.

Acts 1:6,7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

They didn't understand. They thought that when Jesus was resurrected the kingdom of Israel would be restored . . . not knowing the period of time we are in now . . . The dispensation of grace, the church, the body . . . .

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.

Eph. 3:3-5 how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, whereby when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ.) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is NOW revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I cannot tell you, no one can tell you for all the records have been destroyed.

But I asked YOU so YOU tell me how YOU would go about in proving one is Jew or not?

It's not up to US to go about proving one is Jewish or not. God is going to restore the "Israelites" - the twelve tribes - the descendants of the twelve tribes - and restore them to the land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob [Israel].

 

[john832]

It's not up to US to go about proving one is Jewish or not. God is going to restore the "Israelites" - the twelve tribes - the descendants of the twelve tribes - and restore them to the land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob [Israel].

Yep.

(ten characters)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

None of these passages says God will give back the promised land to the Jews. Eze 37:21ff for example is a prophecy about the coming kingdom, Christ's NT church.

Eze 37:21 "And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:"

This verse was already fulfilled when God chose Israel out of all nations to be His chosen people and brought them out of Egypt and gave them the promised land.

Eze 37:22,23 "And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwelling places, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God."

This is spoken in future/prophetic tense. They are no longer divided into a physical northern or southern kingdom but one spiritual kingdom would be formed. This "one nation" would be the church and "one King" being Christ. This is prophetic about the Jews being brought into the Christian dispensation which was fulfilled at Pentecost of Acts 2 with Jews entering the church. "... and one king shall be king to them all..." > Judah (Jews) and Ephraim (Gentiles) would be joined together under one King (Christ) in the church. There would be a joining of these "two sticks" (verses 15-17) Judah and Ephraim >>."The meaning of the oracle is clear enough. It foretold the eventual reunion of Ephraim and Judah, the Northern Israel and the Southern Israel, Samaria and Jerusalem under one king, thus healing the long breach that had begun in the days of Rehoboam who succeeded Solomon."
Coffman Commentary

--------------------------------------

Rom 11:26 "And so all Israel shall be saved:" This is a reference to spiritual Israel the church, NOT fleshly Israel for Rom 11;15-22 plainly says fleshly Israel was cast off. Only a "remnant" of the Jews obeyed the gospel Rom 11:5. Most rejected the gospel and are lost. From the time of Christ until today those that are Jews that continued to reject Christ and died will be lost. So there is no way for all fleshly Israel to be saved but ALL that became part of Christ's kingdom the church, spiritual Israel will be save.

the church was not split. Isreal was (northern and southern kingdom)

thus it can;t be the church,

Sometimes I am amazed as to the depths people will go to to ignore truth, and twist things so bad as to distort the word of God and make it say something it is not even saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 go together. Rom 9 say God can have mercy upon whom He will have mercy. It does not say God must have mercy upon the fleshly Jews during some future time.

romans 11 does.

believe what you want,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There was both grace and law in the OT. Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord but Noah was also under law.
Grace does not nullify law.

Ez 33:13 "Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people."

Deut 7:12 "Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:"

There was grace/mercy to those that obeyed God.

ok. thats it, I can not even look at you anymore with any respect. You have the least amount of bible knowledge of anyone I know in here.

The law was not given until many generations after noah, He did not have the law. Even paul acknowledge this..

enjoy my ignore bin

 

[SarahM777]

The nature of a Kingdom is to have a ruler as King and to govern people subjected under Him.

"This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world" - Yes, they did try to make him a king not understanding that the OT paints two pictures of the coming Messiah as a suffering servant AND a conquering King - they were trying to make him king before he served his purpose as the suffering servant. They were only looking for the conquering king and NOT the suffering servant who needed to suffer for the sins of the world. It was not TIME for Him to be the conquering king. But there is coming a time when He will return as King of Kings to conquer.


Zechariah 14:3,4a, 9 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives . . . . And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD and his name one.

So are you saying Jesus is NOT YOUR KING?

 

[crossnote]

I cannot tell you, no one can tell you for all the records have been destroyed.

But I asked YOU so YOU tell me how YOU would go about in proving one is Jew or not?

Let's go back to the Holocaust. You seem to be saying there is no way to tell if those millions that were targeted as Jews were in fact Jews whereas most everyone except antisemites affirm they were Jews. You don't affirm that those marked as Jews by the Nazis were actually Jews?

 

[SarahM777]

Acts 1:6,7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

They didn't understand. They thought that when Jesus was resurrected the kingdom of Israel would be restored . . . not knowing the period of time we are in now . . . The dispensation of grace, the church, the body . . . .

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began.

Eph. 3:3-5 how that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, whereby when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ.) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is NOW revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit.

Again the day He ascended into is still BEFORE Pentecost when they were filled with the Holy Spirit. After Pentecost YOU CAN NOT FIND ONE VERSE that they were STILL looking for a physical kingdom. Find one verse AFTER PENTECOST where they say there WILL be a restored physical kingdom.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

So are you saying Jesus is NOT YOUR KING?

I do not see Jesus ruling the nations as KING at this time . . . but I did answer this previously:

Right now Jesus is "Lord", highly exalted by God (Phil. 2:8-11). He is the "head of the body" of Christ, the Church. In a sense, he is the "king" of our heart as we humble ourselves and allow him as "Lord" to lead and guide us.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Again the day He ascended into is still BEFORE Pentecost when they were filled with the Holy Spirit. After Pentecost YOU CAN NOT FIND ONE VERSE that they were STILL looking for a physical kingdom. Find one verse AFTER PENTECOST where they say there WILL be a restored physical kingdom.

And if I do or if I don't - does that negate all the verses of prophecy in the OT?

Acts 1:6,7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Do you not think that the apostles had holy Spirit upon them at certain times in order for them to heal and to cast out devils? So to a degree they had holy Spirit [not to the extent of the new birth - born again of the Spirit] but what does that have to do with it? Why would they ask Jesus if he was going "to restore again the kingdom to Israel at this time" - if they did not believe he would through the prophecies of the OT?