Should we as Christians be spreading a tougher message?

[Angelmommie]

I have been thinking about this a lot recently..(and someones thread gave me the idea to ask others),so I will ask you, does it bother you when people..mostly non-christian's I think..use the whole don't judge others, like Jesus was just about the whole kumbyah sitting around the campfire holding hands stuff..do you think that maybe we should be spreading a little harsher message, because in the end we are going to be judged, so shouldn't we be spreading the what not to do message more along with the Jesus is love message? (I mean obviously you need to be free of the sin yourself before "judging" or helping others maybe a better term). Ok that has been on my mind for awhile so thanks for sharing your thought with me..

 

[Human]

I have been thinking about this a lot recently..(and someones thread gave me the idea to ask others),so I will ask you, does it bother you when people..mostly non-christian's I think..use the whole don't judge others, like Jesus was just about the whole kumbyah sitting around the campfire holding hands stuff..do you think that maybe we should be spreading a little harsher message, because in the end we are going to be judged, so shouldn't we be spreading the what not to do message more along with the Jesus is love message? (I mean obviously you need to be free of the sin yourself before "judging" or helping others maybe a better term). Ok that has been on my mind for awhile so thanks for sharing your thought with me..

A soft tongue turns away wrath, but harsh speech stirs up anger.

 

[elf3]

I have been thinking about this a lot recently..(and someones thread gave me the idea to ask others),so I will ask you, does it bother you when people..mostly non-christian's I think..use the whole don't judge others, like Jesus was just about the whole kumbyah sitting around the campfire holding hands stuff..do you think that maybe we should be spreading a little harsher message, because in the end we are going to be judged, so shouldn't we be spreading the what not to do message more along with the Jesus is love message? (I mean obviously you need to be free of the sin yourself before "judging" or helping others maybe a better term). Ok that has been on my mind for awhile so thanks for sharing your thought with me..

First of all we are not to judge in a hypocritical way. Did not God set up Judges in the OT? It all depends how we judge others for we are to defend the Word of God. But we are to spread God's Word with love for those we are reaching. God's judgement of Israel in the OT was sometimes harsh but it was out of His love for them that He judged them.

When I think upon some of the best sermons I ever heard they begin with "now this is gonna hurt". So yes I believe sometimes we have to be harsh but only because of love not of condemnation. For we also are sinners but sin is no longer our master.

This is just my opinion.

 

[notuptome]

Jesus preached more on hell than He did on heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kaylagrl]

One of the most famous sermons ever "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" by Johnathan Edwards.

 

[posthuman]

you can't legislate morality.

laws don't change hearts. how effective would it be to ban atheism? would that make believers out of every citizen?

yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ
(Galatians 2:16)

i believe that in the same way that we received Christ first by grace & mercy, and then by His Spirit are led to righteousness, we ought to first preach Christ, and then to those that receive Him, to walk worthy of the gift and calling in Him.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
(Matthew 22:25-28)

Christ didn't seem to say that having a form of outer godliness with no inner sanctification would reduce anyone's condemnation. if anything, the ones who put on an air of righteousness but whose hearts are unchanged are liable to a harsher judgement.

wisdom is to first clean the inside of the cup - and there's no Soap like the Soap i know

 

[Brainfreeze]

Sure, hell is a factor, but if we run around telling people they are going to hell, all it does is run them away. Jesus preached with a soft tongue. Only time He got angry, was when the money changers were selling pigeons and things in the temple. They were making a mockery of God, and Jesus brought immediate pain for such. We should welcome folks with love, and let them hear the words of God. This way they can be moved by the words and change what they our doing after accepting Christ. Let Christ put the fear in them, not us.

 

[JesusIsAll]

A soft tongue turns away wrath, but harsh speech stirs up anger.

Such Proverbs aren't catchall prophecies, rather wisdom, general principles. For instance, "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Some never get old, in the first place. We all know there are "bad seed" of Christian families, not generally so, but many coming from Christian homes that went down the tubes, this as to Proverbs being intended as absolutes, or, like most things in the Bible, having no context for application.

Regarding speech, then, we'd have to believe our Lord Jesus needed to get the word (His Old Testament word!), before Matthew 23. (Have mercy, run for cover!) Also,

Titus 1:12-14 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Sumtimes, dey jes needs ta' likes it, 'er lumps it, mah usual two cents, dime fer inflation.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Sure you can. Much of our legal code is exactly the legislation of morality. You're correct, of course, that laws don't change hearts but discipline can help structure behavior.

I know a number of "white boy" ex-"stoners," for example, who straightened up after being "scared straight" in the judicial system lolol.

I agree with you that banning atheism is a futile exercise... and perhaps ungodly as God is the one who endowed humanity with the ability to choose a worldview. And, of course, the historical data shows that oppressed people often end up on top in time. The Christian experience certainly reflects that. Once imprisoned, executed, and fed to lions for the amusement of pagans, we eventually came to dominate the entire civilization and influence the whole world.

And nice verse with exegesis. Agreed.

you can't legislate morality.

laws don't change hearts. how effective would it be to ban atheism? would that make believers out of every citizen?

yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ
(Galatians 2:16)

i believe that in the same way that we received Christ first by grace & mercy, and then by His Spirit are led to righteousness, we ought to first preach Christ, and then to those that receive Him, to walk worthy of the gift and calling in Him.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
(Matthew 22:25-28)

Christ didn't seem to say that having a form of outer godliness with no inner sanctification would reduce anyone's condemnation. if anything, the ones who put on an air of righteousness but whose hearts are unchanged are liable to a harsher judgement.

wisdom is to first clean the inside of the cup - and there's no Soap like the Soap i know

 

[elf3]

I have been thinking about this a lot recently..(and someones thread gave me the idea to ask others),so I will ask you, does it bother you when people..mostly non-christian's I think..use the whole don't judge others, like Jesus was just about the whole kumbyah sitting around the campfire holding hands stuff..do you think that maybe we should be spreading a little harsher message, because in the end we are going to be judged, so shouldn't we be spreading the what not to do message more along with the Jesus is love message? (I mean obviously you need to be free of the sin yourself before "judging" or helping others maybe a better term). Ok that has been on my mind for awhile so thanks for sharing your thought with me..

Think about this...we turned our lives over to God because we were convicted of our sins. Meaning we were judged and found guilty. Fortunately because of the grace of God we can have this "second" chance.

What a wonderful phrase....the grace of God

 

[posthuman]

to believers on the the other hand - to each other - i think you're right, that we don't talk about the sin in our lives and encourage each other towards good things nearly enough. it seems like that conversation always turns into an argument over whether "works" saves, and the message that we ought to be applying wisdom and goodness to our lives, living up to the high place God has set us in, gets lost.
part of that is because the idea of "works" is getting misapplied, as though we need to continually offer atonement sacrifices, and the condemnation of that is just, because one sacrifice was sufficient for all, but another part of it is that we just keep feeding the same baby formula to people who ought to be moving on to solid food.

we ought to be more zealous for good among ourselves, but not to the point that we are puffing ourselves up or forgetting the mercy by which we were first received in Him. this good should flow out of hearts from love, not from terror of punishment or damnation - isn't this exactly serving Him in Spirit, and not by the letter of a law?

 

[psalm6819]

Hitting people on the head with the Bible and telling them they are going to hell is not effective. Pointing out all their sins and character flaws will not win them to Jesus and any change that might result is temporary at best because it's motivated by fear not love. Most people are hungry for love, they need reassurance in an uncertain world, they need peace of mind and yes, forgiveness of sin. (the cause of much mental and physical maladies) Telling them the "good news" That God sent His only Son, who willingly gave up His life, that they could be saved and blessed, He has a good plan for thier life. That to me is more effective, but just one woman's opinion.

 

[Human]

Such Proverbs aren't catchall prophecies, rather wisdom, general principles. For instance, "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it." Some never get old, in the first place. We all know there are "bad seed" of Christian families, not generally so, but many coming from Christian homes that went down the tubes, this as to Proverbs being intended as absolutes, or, like most things in the Bible, having no context for application.

Regarding speech, then, we'd have to believe our Lord Jesus needed to get the word (His Old Testament word!), before Matthew 23. (Have mercy, run for cover!) Also,

Titus 1:12-14 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Sumtimes, dey jes needs ta' likes it, 'er lumps it, mah usual two cents, dime fer inflation.

Not really a great example to say 'some people don't get old'. You still train them up anyway.

 

[Straightshot]

Response to the OP


Most of the current "Christian" persuasions tell people "what they want to hear" rather than what they need to hear

If the Bible prophets, the Apostles, and the Lord Himself did this, there would not be any truth left upon on the earth today

Post modern theological leaders have abandon biblical Christianity for what they consider to be "relevant" they say

 

[Joidevivre]

So many answers you will get - but the one answer you need to get is the one from your Lord.

What is He telling you to say? And it will be different depending on who you are talking to.

I counsel at least 10 people a week, and ALWAYS pray and ask Him for the word that HE wants to give that person. You must be speaking from the direction of the Holy Spirit, not what you think they need. Even while you are speaking to them, it is vital that you have one spiritual ear open listening to His voice.

Sometimes it will be a little strong - other times it will be gentle - but always loving. And He will give you the scripture and truths to share.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Not really a great example to say 'some people don't get old'. You still train them up anyway.

Of course, you train them all in what is Godly, and you may not agree, but also reading comprehension.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

you can't legislate morality.
laws don't change hearts. how effective would it be to ban atheism? would that make believers out of every citizen?

Of course no law could change hearts towards morality. It appears most people of earth have not responded to the gospel of Christ, either, their hearts remaining cold.
I believe God did legislate morality through Moses. The law was given for reasons of the lawless, the criminals, the sinners, not for the righteous in Christ or the friends of God in general (Heb 11).
Atheism can't be banned with success, else all world religions could be eliminated leaving only Christianity. Or maybe all gone but Hinduism.
The time is coming when all people remaining alive on earth will be believers. All knees will bow. Yet some of those will join the last rebellion with Satan when he is released back to earth after his thousand years of imprisonment.
Meanwhile, God has given man the power of self governments, so that the lawless can be punished, removed from society. That helps make the lawless more believing in something not respected before being punished. It helps convince others witnessing that to respect morality through the effect of laws imposed on violators who take peace from neighbors..

yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ

(Galatians 2:16)

Yes, the believers know that somewhat. But the unbelievers can't comprehend it, so for the sake of civilization the Church must stand behind laws that support goodness, while discouraging uncontrolled wickedness that tends to destroy societies.

i believe that in the same way that we received Christ first by grace & mercy, and then by His Spirit are led to righteousness, we ought to first preach Christ, and then to those that receive Him, to walk worthy of the gift and calling in Him.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean.
In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
(Matthew 22:25-28)

Christ didn't seem to say that having a form of outer godliness with no inner sanctification would reduce anyone's condemnation. if anything, the ones who put on an air of righteousness but whose hearts are unchanged are liable to a harsher judgement.

wisdom is to first clean the inside of the cup - and there's no Soap like the Soap i know

Yes, but examine the content of Jesus' sermon to the Pharisees. Would you be offended if a modern day preacher spoke that way to hypocrites in the congregation? They probably won't for fear so many hypocrites would be offended and leave they wouldn't be able to keep the church doors open. In that portion of scripture Jesus didn't take righteousness beyond that the men already knew about. They just were not willing to exercise the then known commandments. Yet, today the Church might be filled with many like them, justifying a host of habitual sins while knowing Christ in them requires repentance and that inner cleansing, and being holy as He is holy.

Now I get to a critical point of view. Someone whose heart is unchanged is not in righteousness, so they are in danger of judgment whether they put on airs of righteousness or not. But if a person has a changed heart and is in righteousness, and makes their relationship with the Lord known, perhaps considered "putting on an air", then why can't they preach like Jesus did, then follow up with the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

A soft tongue turns away wrath, but harsh speech stirs up anger.

That doesn't limit us to always avoid making someone angry for a just cause. I could add to that versethis out of context....
Proverbs 25:15 (KJV) [SUP]15 [/SUP] By long forbearing is a prince persuaded, and a soft tongue breaketh the bone.


Jesus used rather harsh words and made many angry with them. Telling someone eye to eye "Get behind me Satan" could result in problems with a friend. That's why I think it best to add some context to that cited verse. It goes like this:
Proverbs 15:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.

From those combined in greater context I take a lesson verified in the remainder of that chapter. A fool falls into mischief speaking harshly without wisdom and knowledge. But even soft words of a fool without wisdom and knowledge can prevent anger of hearers. Please don't let that word "fool" alarm anyone. Foolishness is a central theme in that chapter.

 

[Angelmommie]

..I did say mostly anti-christians...dont you ever feel like they beat us over the head with the whole Jesus is all love thing? I have noticed they silence a lot of Christians this way and "we" let them...and then when i hear this there are these supposed Christians who are like yeah man back off it is all about love that is all Jesus is about..grrr yes Jesus spoke with love but also wisdom and truth..but He was Jesus. I too find myself on certain things saying..well maybe we should back off a little, like with homosexuality and such..except abortion that I will fight you on tooth and nail..but other things I wonder if I am "fighting" as hard as Jesus would want me too, you know defending what is in the bible..did that make sense at all??

 

[granpa]

I have been thinking about this a lot recently..(and someones thread gave me the idea to ask others),so I will ask you, does it bother you when people..mostly non-christian's I think..use the whole don't judge others, like Jesus was just about the whole kumbyah sitting around the campfire holding hands stuff..do you think that maybe we should be spreading a little harsher message, because in the end we are going to be judged, so shouldn't we be spreading the what not to do message more along with the Jesus is love message? (I mean obviously you need to be free of the sin yourself before "judging" or helping others maybe a better term). Ok that has been on my mind for awhile so thanks for sharing your thought with me..

everyday I lose a little more respect for Christianity. I'm starting to think of all of Christianity as nothing but a giant club for trolls.