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Hoffco
Guest
To eternally-grateful and newbirth, why are arguing over "faith with out works is dead" when you both agree on it? Love to all, Hoffco
Works and Salvation
- Thread starter iwant2serve
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Hoffco
Guest
The point is, Rom,10:17, is not absolutely true, or true all the time. it is a general truth of how to get faith, read the Bible, but reading the bible is not going to help ,unless I believes it. Love Hoffco
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ladylynn
Guest
John 3:16
king james version(kjv)
16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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James 2:23
king james version(kjv)
23.)And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
king james version(kjv)
16.)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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James 2:23
king james version(kjv)
23.)And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
bro the scripture says faith comes by hearing....that is the word it is either you believe or you don't...it is your choice...if the word is not absolutely true then it is deceiving ....the scripture says the word of God is alive.....are you saying sometimes it is dead???
No one will have any excuse.....God sends his word with faith .....when you first heard the word ....did you obey at once?? most of us have laughed and scoffed at the same word we now defend...we made up all sorts of excuses not to follow God.....but because we submitted to the living word we are here today.....so it is true that all who have heard the word and do not follow are rejecting the word as we once did...
Romans 1:16-21King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
I don't know what eternally-grateful believe....he says faith without works is dead ...but if you work you are trying to earn your salvation
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Because you are. You do not think someone is saved until they work.
That is a huge difference from someone who has faith in God to save them, and their faith produces work.
you posted none so there was none to refute ....I don't know what book you were quoting from....there was nothing in scripture to support your post....hence I said..... not one piece of scripture...just your opinion....
yet you say unless someone "produce" works they are lost, you can't have it both ways.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Only God can judge salvation. Who am I to say if someone is doing work or not. am I God? Can I read a persons heart?
I am not the ones stressing works. you guys are.
this is what I keep asking....the faith I coloured red....is that faith without works....therefore alone and dead? and when that dead faith saves you suddenly it comes alive and produces works...
the issue is not works ...it is faith without works ...which you teach....you want to be saved by a faith that is dead...I would have said ask Abraham ...but you think he is a liar...
Jn 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you,they are spirit, and they are life."
It's Christ's words that are spirit and life, it's Christ words that quicken and those words (given by the Holy Spirit- 1 Cor 2:13) were written down by spiritual men (men endowed and inspired by the Holy Spirit to receive those inspired words) so the natural man (not endowed nor inspired by the Holy Spirit to receive words) could read those words and understand, Eph 3:4.
It's God's desire that Christians continue to walk in the light but it is up to the Christian to choose to do so or not. John said "But if we walk in the light...". "IF" being a conditional word making it the choice of the Christian to continue to walk in the light or not.
Once again, IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's ONE OR THE OTHER. There is no third camp of saved believers walking in darkness or lost unbelievers walking in the light.
Descriptive of lost unbelievers.
Descriptive of saved believers.
When we place our faith exclusively in Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness. "Believes unto righteousness" (Romans 10:10) "but to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5) = saved. It doesn't sound like you will ever figure this out.
Saved believers must CONTINUE to walk in the light to CONTINUE to remain saved. Failing to do so then all their sins are no longer cleansed away by the blood of Christ and they become lost in those unwashed sins. So it is not possible for one to be come a Christian and remained saved without doing good works, Eph 2:10, without doing the obedient work of walking in the light, 1 Jn 1:7, without continuing to do righteousness, 1 Jn 2:29.
I wish one-note johnny would play us a different song! He is absolutely fixated on this salvation through works heresy!
I figured it out...what you have just explained is faith without works...with a couple of out of context scriptures....When we place our faith exclusively in Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness. "Believes unto righteousness" (Romans 10:10) "but to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5) = saved. It doesn't sound like you will ever figure this out.
how is it when these guys believe they were baptised...when you believe you instantly become righteous....and servants of obedience unto righteousness having never obeyed anything...I suppose Philip and Paul were preaching works
Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Acts 18:8
And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
Almost.
The natural man cannot understand the words of Christ because they are Spiritually discerned. The Holy Spirit acts through the word of God to bring conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment in the hearts of the hearers. It is the ministry of the Holy Spirit to draw men to Christ that they might be saved.
Jesus said that the Comforter would guide us into the truth. He would speak not of himself but the things that He had heard from the Father.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
How sad indeed. So close and yet so far. I am frightened by his denial of the Holy Spirit. As long as he denies the Holy Spirit he cannot come to Christ and be saved.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
What are you saying? are you saying that you can do no works what so ever, and be in a saved position?