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J
This appears literal
7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
7 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
E
trust God at his word. and do not try to make an allegory out of it. like some people do.
God made these promises to Israel.
Lev 26: 44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.’”
Ez 37: 21 21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
Isaiah 11:11 It shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left,From Assyria and Egypt, From Pathros and Cush, From Elam and Shinar,
From Hamath and the islands of the sea.
Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Rom 11: 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”
This promise goes to the twelve tribes. Again like in your last thread, Trust God, he knows who they are. we do not need to worry how or who they are. just have faith God will keep his promise, and knows what he is doing.
God made these promises to Israel.
Lev 26: 44 Yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the Lord.’”
Ez 37: 21 21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land;
Isaiah 11:11 It shall come to pass in that day That the Lord shall set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people who are left,From Assyria and Egypt, From Pathros and Cush, From Elam and Shinar,
From Hamath and the islands of the sea.
Luke 21:24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Rom 11: 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.”
This promise goes to the twelve tribes. Again like in your last thread, Trust God, he knows who they are. we do not need to worry how or who they are. just have faith God will keep his promise, and knows what he is doing.
E
that would be a dangerous thing. It would make God (and the apostle John) a false prophet.
Deu 18:22
"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
Deu 18:22
"When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."
The use of numeric symbolism in scripture is quite common.
The number twelve is used to represent perfection of government. Twelve is the number of the Church, both the Old Covenant founded by twelve physical fathers (the twelve sons of Jacob-Israel) and the New Covenant Church in twelve spiritual fathers (the twelve Apostles). This number also has a relationship with multiples of twelve.
1. The product of the number three (perfection of divinity) x four (the number of the earth).
2. Twelve months in a year.
3. Twelve tribes of Israel, Gen 49:28.
4. Twelve Apostles, Matt. 10:2-4.
5. 144,000 servants of God (12 times 12), Rev. 7:4.
6. Twelve gates of the New Jerusalem, Rev, 21:12
8. Twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem, Rev. 21:16-17
9. The Trees of Life in the new creation will bear twelve kinds of fruits, Rev. 22:2.
Ten and multiples of ten as in1000 represent perfection of divine order. It is also the number of completeness.
The number 144,000 is a multiple of 12 times 1000 representing a complete number, in this case the complete number of the redeemed of the remnants of Israel from all the tribes.
The number twelve is used to represent perfection of government. Twelve is the number of the Church, both the Old Covenant founded by twelve physical fathers (the twelve sons of Jacob-Israel) and the New Covenant Church in twelve spiritual fathers (the twelve Apostles). This number also has a relationship with multiples of twelve.
1. The product of the number three (perfection of divinity) x four (the number of the earth).
2. Twelve months in a year.
3. Twelve tribes of Israel, Gen 49:28.
4. Twelve Apostles, Matt. 10:2-4.
5. 144,000 servants of God (12 times 12), Rev. 7:4.
6. Twelve gates of the New Jerusalem, Rev, 21:12
8. Twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem, Rev. 21:16-17
9. The Trees of Life in the new creation will bear twelve kinds of fruits, Rev. 22:2.
Ten and multiples of ten as in1000 represent perfection of divine order. It is also the number of completeness.
The number 144,000 is a multiple of 12 times 1000 representing a complete number, in this case the complete number of the redeemed of the remnants of Israel from all the tribes.
J
Simply because John sees then hears does not make a very solid argument for allegory\literal, the weightier matter for me was the subjects, not the number of them. It appears to be that When God specifies a number as 144,000, that is what he means. Yes, there are passages that God is obviously using comparisons or "pictures" so to speak, but this doesnt seem to be....just my opinion, 
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It says what it says, anyone with a basic grasp of English should be able to understand context, but people have agendas and theology, which they then have to shoehorn things such as the 144,000 into, to make this fit it then has to be changed from a physical actual number and real people to metaphorical or spiritual or whatever.
The Jews were scattered and spread across the globe, most hid their identity and many people alive today do not even know they are Jews. The issue of the tribes is paraded around by many people, especially those who embrace replacement theology, that is God has finished with the Jews, has nothing to do with them and has instead replaced them with Christians.
God knows who these people are and will see to it that 12,000 from each tribe are given the task of going out in the world during the rule of the anti-christ to preach he is not the Messiah, but the real Messiah will come soon and is the only way to "heaven".
The Jews were scattered and spread across the globe, most hid their identity and many people alive today do not even know they are Jews. The issue of the tribes is paraded around by many people, especially those who embrace replacement theology, that is God has finished with the Jews, has nothing to do with them and has instead replaced them with Christians.
God knows who these people are and will see to it that 12,000 from each tribe are given the task of going out in the world during the rule of the anti-christ to preach he is not the Messiah, but the real Messiah will come soon and is the only way to "heaven".
Contrary to the ignorance and belief of some...take both places that the 144,000 are talked about which is literal, and write all of the facts out in order such as..
1. The are VIRGINS who have not been defiled with women
2. The are males as God does not promote homosexuality
3. They were alive-->redeemed from among men
4. They have died-->redeemed from the earth
5. They have no guile in their mouths-->have not lied or been deceptive
6. They are called the first fruits-->same word applied unto Jesus
7. They Follow the LAMB wherever he goes
8. They are without fault before the throne of God
9. They sing a song no man can know but the 144,000
10. They stand on Mount Zion with the Lamb when HE stands on Mount Zion
They are the first fruits of the Lord and His Personal Train in Heaven.....they are the wave offering of the Lord....the First fruits of the wheat harvest.....They are a literal group, literally numbered and there is a group within the pages of History and of the bible that can fit all of the descriptive evidence as found in the book of Revelation although many miss the facts...
1. The are VIRGINS who have not been defiled with women
2. The are males as God does not promote homosexuality
3. They were alive-->redeemed from among men
4. They have died-->redeemed from the earth
5. They have no guile in their mouths-->have not lied or been deceptive
6. They are called the first fruits-->same word applied unto Jesus
7. They Follow the LAMB wherever he goes
8. They are without fault before the throne of God
9. They sing a song no man can know but the 144,000
10. They stand on Mount Zion with the Lamb when HE stands on Mount Zion
They are the first fruits of the Lord and His Personal Train in Heaven.....they are the wave offering of the Lord....the First fruits of the wheat harvest.....They are a literal group, literally numbered and there is a group within the pages of History and of the bible that can fit all of the descriptive evidence as found in the book of Revelation although many miss the facts...
Its only cloudy if you listen to the heretics and satanic replacement theology.
God made a covenant with the Jews, you know what that is right? That is an ever lasting agreement that can not be broken, if it can be broken and God can decided to go back on it, or change the rules etc, then that means God is a liar and that we should be living in fear over the covenant we have through the death of Christ, as if God can go back on what he gave and said to the Jews, he can sure change his mind over our salvation and send all beleivers who love God to hell.
You can have more than one covenant in place, that is what we have today, we still have the Jews as Gods chosen people, who now have a nation once more, Those who bless Israel and the Jews will be blessed and those who curse them will be cursed. This is very evident if you look at events in a different light and see things for what they are. For starters the wars Israel has fought are miraculous how they won, 1948 any other nation would have been destroyed and every person killed or driven into the sea, but because God has his protection over Israel they won.
Yes the Christian church is also special, but we are grafted into the Jews, we are just a continuation of that, all covenants can live side by side as they rightly do, its just the anti-Semitic Jew haters who do not think so, who then come out with all this nonsense that God has abandoned the Jews and wants nothing more to do with them.
God made a covenant with the Jews, you know what that is right? That is an ever lasting agreement that can not be broken, if it can be broken and God can decided to go back on it, or change the rules etc, then that means God is a liar and that we should be living in fear over the covenant we have through the death of Christ, as if God can go back on what he gave and said to the Jews, he can sure change his mind over our salvation and send all beleivers who love God to hell.
You can have more than one covenant in place, that is what we have today, we still have the Jews as Gods chosen people, who now have a nation once more, Those who bless Israel and the Jews will be blessed and those who curse them will be cursed. This is very evident if you look at events in a different light and see things for what they are. For starters the wars Israel has fought are miraculous how they won, 1948 any other nation would have been destroyed and every person killed or driven into the sea, but because God has his protection over Israel they won.
Yes the Christian church is also special, but we are grafted into the Jews, we are just a continuation of that, all covenants can live side by side as they rightly do, its just the anti-Semitic Jew haters who do not think so, who then come out with all this nonsense that God has abandoned the Jews and wants nothing more to do with them.
I believe this a symbolic number representing the Christian believers of Jewish descent. 1000 representing all of them, 12 representing a particular group, Jewish. Thus we have 1000x 12 equals 144000. I believe these are Jewish believers in Jerusalem whom God puts his seal on for protection from God's wrath. We see the same thing in the OT God puts His seal on 7000 Israelites who had not bow their knee to Baal or other gods. These Jewish believers needed protection from the Roman armies upon the destruction of Jerusalem 70AD. God saved all these people from His wrath and His wrath did not come upon them. They fled to Mnt. Pella when they saw the Roman armies coming to surround Jerusalem. Jesus tells and warns these Christians before His death to flee Jerusalem when these things take place in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:15–22; Mark 13:14–20; Luke 21:20–24).
Simply because John sees then hears does not make a very solid argument for allegory\literal, the weightier matter for me was the subjects, not the number of them. It appears to be that When God specifies a number as 144,000, that is what he means. Yes, there are passages that God is obviously using comparisons or "pictures" so to speak, but this doesnt seem to be....just my opinion,
The 144,000 represents all believers in The Triune God from all over the planet...