Jews

[GuessWho]

So the final beast is going to enter the body of a believer and obominate it? do you realise who that sounds?[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

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???? Come one. Don't tell me that all my comments were for nothing. I told you that the chief beast was Caiaphas. That he (and the pharisees) defiled the temple.
Also, Christ believed that all those things he was prophesying would happen soon ("this generation will not pass until all will happen").

Jesus considered Himself the true Israel of God. The obedient Israel. The light of the world. He will suffer for the sake of the Israel and will defeat the true Babylon (sin) which was installed in Jerusalem, in the temple, in the hearts of the Pharisees and after He defeats the enemy, He will re-built His temple (the Church) and will allow people from all nations (the christians, the real Israel) to partake in His victory. Yet, Jerusalem will suffer because of their rejection. The Jews in Jerusalem must repent or else the judgment that has been passed over the, will be executed. Christ foresaw that the Romans will destroy Jerusalem and the temple.

 

[Straightshot]

You are a story teller GW

Preterism is prevalent today .... but its tenants are old and moldy

Those that follow are the scoffers of the last days exposed in scripture

 

[GuessWho]

I am not a preterist (didn't even know what that meant until few minutes ago). I believe Christians and the Church are now God's spiritual Israel. What does that make me?

 

[Straightshot]

You are a replacement theologist that pushes Israel's future fulfillment of the prophetic word into the past [Preter means "past"]

Once this is done then the preterist can claim national Israel's future position for themselves .... hence, the replacement

I suspect that you have been taught these things by other originators and they are not true

Check your position .... those who teach preterism/replacement add and push additional doctrines which could have a detrimental effect upon your own salvation

 

[GuessWho]

You are a replacement theologist that pushes Israel's future fulfillment of the prophetic word into the past [Preter means "past"]

Once this is done then the preterist can claim national Israel's future position for themselves .... hence, the replacement

I suspect that you have been taught these things by other originators and they are not true

Check your position .... those who teach preterism/replacement add and push additional doctrines which could have a detrimental effect upon your own salvation

I put it in the present of Jesus Christ. I believe he is the fulfillment of the promises to Israel but the Jews rejected Him. I believe Christ himself replaced/reconfigured around Him some of the major judaic symbols such as the Law, the Sabbath, the Temple, the Covenant etc.
He believed the real enemy of the Jews was sin, not the Romans (or other political power). So, I believe Him to be the real Messiah, the real Savior, the Son of God.

If you're a Jew than I can understand why you accuse me of "replacement". If you're a christian, than you make no sense.

 

[ChristIsGod]

This is an interesting comment. Do you think Jesus indicated that his followers should pay taxes?

Hi Brother, Yes, I do believe we're to pay our taxes and obey Romans 13 - regarding the obeying the law UNTIL their laws ask us to do something like in Daniel's case, where he wasn't supposed to Pray - but he did anyways and out loud taboot.
I've always admired that he did pray out loud, among everything else that he and his 3 friends did.

I know that we could say -- but they use our money for abortion and other evil things -- but we have to pick our battles with wisdom. Better to be a witness to being pro-life from the Bible then to break a law that began before abortion and the other things were in force.

The Roman occupation was in force when Jesus was on earth, but I don't recall him getting 'political' regarding them nor their taxes or what they were using the taxes for ... despite how corrupt Rome was in those days ... he did tell His disciples to pay and He even provided the money from that fish's mouth.

Has the subject gone back to the OP yet? I've enjoyed my day off online today to rest up for tomorrow's BIG COOKING TURKEY DAY with Thanksgiving!

 

[sveinen]

this is unfounded.

The abomination which makes desolate can only happen in the jewish temple. Otherwise we can not SEE IT. and the warning is useless.

yo, "i saw both it and others that saw it. seems to be part of what was in store behind door number two, like. my testimony went none knew how to act. we remember Christs words of none other rightous? ..seems "also Saved" our reach upwards got lazied away."
kinda late now.
love at once.
"we well think all nations repenting away from its killing of unborn is ended now. the nations."
what do we say Christ is? ..with our hands and feet....

 

[sveinen]

What drives one into such a menial and unfocused dancing?

"we seem to have harvested some decay from our ignorance. we were to love our neighbour, yeah."
God Is, remaint to be saved

 

[sveinen]

I am but a small voice of that mighty angel proclaiming the fall the babylon!

Hallelujah, Hallelujah.
God Is Mighty Ooo.
Hallelujah.
Amen

 

[sveinen]

It is Christ who take this prophesy and re-interpret.

..Made all things New, Hallelujah. thank you.

 

[sveinen]

WALK in that image of heaven we hope for!

sweet, sweet, sweet. thank you

 

[Straightshot]

"If you're a Jew than I can understand why you accuse me of "replacement". If you're a christian, than you make no sense."


I am not accusing you .... I am telling you that you have a severe problem with your interpretive methodology

In your process you are calling foul to the Lord's very words .... do you know what this means for you?

Do the scriptures below make any sense to you?

.... or have you been taught to preterize the Lord and stick His future declaration into the past by selective metaphorical ranting

And after you read this .... interpret Zechariah 14 for me as well .... I want to see how you render the passage


Ezekiel
36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame.

36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

 

[prove-all]

the abomination of desolation

daily sacrifice


i have to go back and restudy this but


sacrifice was added to verse,


the daily in past i think was the word of God going out twice a day.

i am not sure but i do not think another physical temple has to be built

 

[Straightshot]

There will be no temple of the Lord's on the mount court during the coming tribulation [Revelation 11:2]

This location will be overrun and occupied by Muslim Gentiles who would never allow a Jewish temple

The contrasting view of the Lord's temple given in chapter 11 is here [Revelation 11:1] .... His temple in heaven referred to several times as Revelation unfolds

His temple will not be built until after the tribulation [Ezekiel 40]

 

[sveinen]

love at once.
"we well think all nations repenting away from its killing of unborn is ended now. the nations."
..

we might have been thinking away the nations not repenting there "..anyhow, we sorta came across some schmerious prophecies by now."
if anyone is in Christ he is a new creation..
"lovetrain sveinen"

 

[prove-all]

There will be no temple of the Lord's on the mount court during the coming tribulation [Revelation 11:2]

This location will be overrun and occupied by Muslim Gentiles who would never allow a Jewish temple

The contrasting view of the Lord's temple given in chapter 11 is here [Revelation 11:1] .... His temple in heaven referred to several times as Revelation unfolds

His temple will not be built until after the tribulation [Ezekiel 40]

so is it the daily prayer going out,

or the word of God going out everyday that stops ?


i do believe everyone looking for new temple being built but not going to happen till after

 

[eternally-gratefull]

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???? Come one. Don't tell me that all my comments were for nothing. I told you that the chief beast was Caiaphas. That he (and the pharisees) defiled the temple.

Yes you did. But this is not the abomination which causes desolation. No jew would see that as what you claim it is. Antiochus epiphenies defiled the inner sanctum by sacrificing a pig in the inner room. If you understand what an abomination which makes desolate is, maybe you would see how what your claiming does not make sense. And also who is supposed to do it.

Also, Christ believed that all those things he was prophesying would happen soon ("this generation will not pass until all will happen").

And again you did not read what I posted. Did Christ return in their generation? Again why do you keep insisting things which are not there?

Jesus answered three things.

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

The things be was speaking of the destruction of the temple which occurred in 70 AD. the rest are the end of the age, when he returns. which has not occured yet, thus they are yet future.

Jesus considered Himself the true Israel of God. The obedient Israel. The light of the world. He will suffer for the sake of the Israel and will defeat the true Babylon (sin) which was installed in Jerusalem, in the temple, in the hearts of the Pharisees and after He defeats the enemy, He will re-built His temple (the Church) and will allow people from all nations (the christians, the real Israel) to partake in His victory. Yet, Jerusalem will suffer because of their rejection. The Jews in Jerusalem must repent or else the judgment that has been passed over the, will be executed. Christ foresaw that the Romans will destroy Jerusalem and the temple.

He also foresaw that rome would suffer a mortal wound and be like dead, yet rise from the dead. And rule the whole globe. and force everyone to worship it. Its leader will abominate the temple and speak pompous things (declare himself to be messiah) and force worship of him. He will be destroyed by the return of Christ in glory.

Again, You need to study the OT prophets more.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not a preterist (didn't even know what that meant until few minutes ago). I believe Christians and the Church are now God's spiritual Israel. What does that make me?

I never heard about a preterist until I came in here, so I am like you.

But from what I hear a preterist is, It would make you a preterist.

Preterism is a view in Christian eschatology which holds that some or all of the biblical prophecies concerning the Last Days refer to events which took place in the first century after Christ's birth, especially associated with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, meaning past, since this view deems certain biblical prophecies as past, or already fulfilled.

Preterism is most dramatically contrasted with Futurism, the view that most prophecies regarding the End times, and passages referring to Last Days, Great Tribulation, and Judgment are still future and will immediately precede the return of Christ. Proponents of preterist views generally fall in one of two categories: Partial Preterism or Full Preterism.

I would be classified a futurist. Although again, never heard of that until I came in here.

My point of few has always been you have literalists (prophesy is fulfilled literally) and allegorists (prophesy is not literally fulfilled, but is an allegory, or symbol of a spiritual truth.

You also have dispensationalism, and pre, post or mid trib, pre-millenial and post millenial, and ..

there are so many names for things, I have lost track. I do nto like name, because they do not help and always set us up for preconceived notions of what someone believes, I would rather ask them and discuss with them and see, then make judgments based on a name.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the abomination of desolation

daily sacrifice


i have to go back and restudy this but


sacrifice was added to verse,


the daily in past i think was the word of God going out twice a day.

i am not sure but i do not think another physical temple has to be built

you can not place an unclean thing to abominate a holy place if their is no holy place.

An abomination which causes desolation, is a term which means an unclean thing is placed in a holy place of worship, which causes it to be desolate.

In literal terms, the abomination is an abhorrent idle.

The OT prophets state a world leader will eneter the temple holy of holys. Make an abomination of it, and declare himself to be Gods son. He and the false prophet will then force the world to worship him via the mark of the beast.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There will be no temple of the Lord's on the mount court during the coming tribulation [Revelation 11:2]

This location will be overrun and occupied by Muslim Gentiles who would never allow a Jewish temple

The contrasting view of the Lord's temple given in chapter 11 is here [Revelation 11:1] .... His temple in heaven referred to several times as Revelation unfolds

His temple will not be built until after the tribulation [Ezekiel 40]

Does not matter what the muslims want, Prophesy says a temple will be rebuilt, and the people of Judah will see the beast abominate the temple. at which point, they are warned to flee to the mountains.

You can not have an abomination of desolation which everyone can see, if there is no temple.