Is Jesus of Nazareth the prophesied Messiah from the O.T.?
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No. The argument is not about that. The argument is about people who claim to be christians and believe that God owes to the Jews a piece of land. People who claim to be christians and believe that God has two different covenants: one with national Israel and another one with us, christians.
This is what is all about.
This is what is all about.
E
so you cannot answer.
Thread is finished. You did not even stick to the rules of your own thread.
Thus it will die the death it deserves.
If your going to declare war on someone by doing this, you better be able to back yourself up and respond to what you were confronted with to begin with, Opening a new thread does not give yuo an excuse not to open it.
as far as I am concerned, this thread is closed. She just proved her true self. Lets pray everyone else sees it and no one responds any more.
I would report the thread to have it closed. But then what would that make me?
Thread is finished. You did not even stick to the rules of your own thread.
Thus it will die the death it deserves.
If your going to declare war on someone by doing this, you better be able to back yourself up and respond to what you were confronted with to begin with, Opening a new thread does not give yuo an excuse not to open it.
as far as I am concerned, this thread is closed. She just proved her true self. Lets pray everyone else sees it and no one responds any more.
I would report the thread to have it closed. But then what would that make me?
Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
Isaiah 59:20, "A Redeemer will come to Zion, And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob," declares the LORD. "As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring's offspring," says the LORD, "from now and forever."
Romans 11:26, "And so all Israyl will be saved, as it is written: The Deliverer will depart from Zion, and He will turn away unrighteousness from Yaaqob."
Isayah 59:20-21, "The Redeemer will idepart from Zion for those of Yaaqob who repent of their sins! declares Yahweh. As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Instructions which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."
Yahyl 2:32, "And whoever will call with the Name of Yahweh will be delivered; for in Mount Zion in Yerusalem there will be deliverance, as Yahweh has said, among the remnant who has escaped of those whom Yahweh calls."
Zecharyah 7:7-13, "Were not these words of Yahweh proclaimed by the former prophets, when Yerusalem was inhabited and successful, with her villages surrounding her, when men inhabited the South; Negev, and the lowland; western foothills? And the word of Yahweh came to Zecharyah, saying: This is what Yahweh of hosts says! Execute true judgment, and show mercy and compassion, everyone to his brother. Do not oppress the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor. Let none of you imagine; think or devise, evil in your heart against your brother. But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which Yahweh of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from Yahweh of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says Yahweh of hosts!"
Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
One that is a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of the Messiah, has the Law of Yahweh or more accurately the Torah, written on their heart, how could one believe it shouldnt be followed, it shouldnt be read, or it applies no longer if they are truly a part of this covenant? I believe the only reason I love His instructions is because Yahweh has put this on my heart, years ago when I was lost I certainly did not enjoy His Instructions.
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah
Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."
the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.
Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."
Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
Isaiah 59:20, "A Redeemer will come to Zion, And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob," declares the LORD. "As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring's offspring," says the LORD, "from now and forever."
Romans 11:26, "And so all Israyl will be saved, as it is written: The Deliverer will depart from Zion, and He will turn away unrighteousness from Yaaqob."
Isayah 59:20-21, "The Redeemer will idepart from Zion for those of Yaaqob who repent of their sins! declares Yahweh. As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Instructions which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."
Yahyl 2:32, "And whoever will call with the Name of Yahweh will be delivered; for in Mount Zion in Yerusalem there will be deliverance, as Yahweh has said, among the remnant who has escaped of those whom Yahweh calls."
Zecharyah 7:7-13, "Were not these words of Yahweh proclaimed by the former prophets, when Yerusalem was inhabited and successful, with her villages surrounding her, when men inhabited the South; Negev, and the lowland; western foothills? And the word of Yahweh came to Zecharyah, saying: This is what Yahweh of hosts says! Execute true judgment, and show mercy and compassion, everyone to his brother. Do not oppress the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor. Let none of you imagine; think or devise, evil in your heart against your brother. But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which Yahweh of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from Yahweh of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says Yahweh of hosts!"
Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
One that is a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of the Messiah, has the Law of Yahweh or more accurately the Torah, written on their heart, how could one believe it shouldnt be followed, it shouldnt be read, or it applies no longer if they are truly a part of this covenant? I believe the only reason I love His instructions is because Yahweh has put this on my heart, years ago when I was lost I certainly did not enjoy His Instructions.
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah
Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."
the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.
I cant wait till the Messiah returns
Revelation 21:3-4, "And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father. And Yahweh will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away."
1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."
Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
Revelation 21:3-4, "And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father. And Yahweh will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, nor will there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away."
1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."
Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."
Aye Jesus is the only person in history, and even in fictional literature that fulfills ALL the Messianic prophecies.
1. I think we all agree on this point that Jesus was born a child and thus is human.
2. Jesus is indeed a ruler. Note John 18:36-37.
3. I am guessing since this is not bolded it is not in dispute, but to add a little input to this note how an angel of the Lord names Jesus as Emmanuel, which means God is With Us, which is another Messianic fulfillment of the prophecy spoke by Isaiah.
4. This ties into Points #1, #2, #3, #5, and #6. I think just a little common sense would dictate if God's kingdom is eternal that it is not of this dying world.
5. This seems to be the big one for you I can see. Remember the resurrection (John 20 and 21). Since Jesus rose from the dead after 3 days this is the final piece in being the Messiah, for if Jesus was not crucified and Resurrected then he would not be the Messiah even having fulfilling all the previous prophecies as the crucificion and resurrection is the most crucial part of fulfilling the Messianic Prophecies. This is the most critical event to be called the Messiah. As Paul put it quite well in 1 Corinthians 15:14, if Jesus did not rise from the grave then our faith is in vain.
Furthermore consider how if Christ raised from the dead, thus completing the Messianic Prophecies, this also means he holds the keys of death as he overcame and therefore is master over death. This means Jesus has freely in his power to raise up anyone from the dead.
6. Aye and this be true indeed. After Jesus resurrection, and even during his lifetime this was all ready underway and is still underway. This may require a little reading into the History of the AD, but one can easily see how from the moment of Jesus' life to present how the word of God has spread throughout the world at a tremendous pace. To be a true Israelite one must believe in the God of Jacob (Israel). We also know from both OT prophets and NT Jesus and Apostles that the Gentiles must be grafted into Israel. One of the few blessings of living in these times now, is this is taking place before our very eyes. This very website is only a small testimony and proof of this.
7. Aye this goes somewhat with Point 6 at least in terms of identifying true Israel. We must also consider Point 3 and the resurrection of Jesus because that means Jesus is still alive which means the End Times Prophecies are still on the table. For the other part of this we must examine Revelation, which talks of the final battle and those that survive it. Spoiler alert; Jesus wins and resurrects the people for Judgement Day.
8. This point is incorrect and is actually backwards. It is written that the Messiah came to serve, not be served. Even Jesus himself say in Matthew 20:28; "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." Also note Jesus speaks repeatedly on serving or doing the will of his Father.
9. Messiah and Christ are titles meaning Anointed One. As we can see there is only Jesus whom fulfills all those things which pertain unto the titles of Messiah and Christ.
1. I think we all agree on this point that Jesus was born a child and thus is human.
2. Jesus is indeed a ruler. Note John 18:36-37.
3. I am guessing since this is not bolded it is not in dispute, but to add a little input to this note how an angel of the Lord names Jesus as Emmanuel, which means God is With Us, which is another Messianic fulfillment of the prophecy spoke by Isaiah.
4. This ties into Points #1, #2, #3, #5, and #6. I think just a little common sense would dictate if God's kingdom is eternal that it is not of this dying world.
5. This seems to be the big one for you I can see. Remember the resurrection (John 20 and 21). Since Jesus rose from the dead after 3 days this is the final piece in being the Messiah, for if Jesus was not crucified and Resurrected then he would not be the Messiah even having fulfilling all the previous prophecies as the crucificion and resurrection is the most crucial part of fulfilling the Messianic Prophecies. This is the most critical event to be called the Messiah. As Paul put it quite well in 1 Corinthians 15:14, if Jesus did not rise from the grave then our faith is in vain.
Furthermore consider how if Christ raised from the dead, thus completing the Messianic Prophecies, this also means he holds the keys of death as he overcame and therefore is master over death. This means Jesus has freely in his power to raise up anyone from the dead.
6. Aye and this be true indeed. After Jesus resurrection, and even during his lifetime this was all ready underway and is still underway. This may require a little reading into the History of the AD, but one can easily see how from the moment of Jesus' life to present how the word of God has spread throughout the world at a tremendous pace. To be a true Israelite one must believe in the God of Jacob (Israel). We also know from both OT prophets and NT Jesus and Apostles that the Gentiles must be grafted into Israel. One of the few blessings of living in these times now, is this is taking place before our very eyes. This very website is only a small testimony and proof of this.
7. Aye this goes somewhat with Point 6 at least in terms of identifying true Israel. We must also consider Point 3 and the resurrection of Jesus because that means Jesus is still alive which means the End Times Prophecies are still on the table. For the other part of this we must examine Revelation, which talks of the final battle and those that survive it. Spoiler alert; Jesus wins and resurrects the people for Judgement Day.
8. This point is incorrect and is actually backwards. It is written that the Messiah came to serve, not be served. Even Jesus himself say in Matthew 20:28; "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." Also note Jesus speaks repeatedly on serving or doing the will of his Father.
9. Messiah and Christ are titles meaning Anointed One. As we can see there is only Jesus whom fulfills all those things which pertain unto the titles of Messiah and Christ.
E
No. this was said of the servant of God. not the messiah. The servant of God was given no name, that is why the disciples could not correlate him as messiah and going through these things, not once was it told that the messiah would suffer these things.
Quite the opposite.
Zechariah 14:9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
Zechariah 14:16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty
Micah 5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.
5:4 He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God. And they will live securely, for then his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this.
Nothing in here shows he will be a servant, they all state he will be served, and worshiped. He will be ruler of=ver his people. And peace of his people will be everlasting. There has not been peace for Isreal or christians on the earth since he left. Quite the opposite.\
and these are but a few of the messianic prophesies, there are many more which say the same thing
But nice try.
Quite the opposite.
Zechariah 14:9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.
Zechariah 14:16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty
Micah 5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.
5:4 He will stand and shepherd his flock in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God. And they will live securely, for then his greatness will reach to the ends of the earth.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this.
Nothing in here shows he will be a servant, they all state he will be served, and worshiped. He will be ruler of=ver his people. And peace of his people will be everlasting. There has not been peace for Isreal or christians on the earth since he left. Quite the opposite.\
and these are but a few of the messianic prophesies, there are many more which say the same thing
But nice try.
The disciples of Jesus of Nazareth believed that He was the Messiah. Otherwise, they wouldn't have left their work and family to follow Him. But I'm glad you understood that the cross was a stumbling block for a lot of them because they didn't expect their Messiah to die. However, Christ resurrected and ever since the apostles spread the good news and no longer feared death.
They confessed Christ to be the King of Kings in a world where Ceasar was perceived as king. Christ is king, not Ceasar!
They confessed Christ to be the King of Kings in a world where Ceasar was perceived as king. Christ is king, not Ceasar!