Is it possible to get, "unborn again"?

[eternally-gratefull]

You are so messed up, if you were drowning and someone threw you a life preserver and you grab onto it, you think you saved yourself.

How did I save myself? A life preserve would not help me, I have no power to grab ahold of it. I have spent years in the water, and I have no strength. The savior has to grab ahold of me and PULL me out of the water before I die or it is too late.

See, You guys do not understand your plight, you still think you have strength, You do not understand how ill you are. that is why you refuse to allow God to save you, and will continue to save yourself.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

salvation is in Christ....if you are not in fellowship with Christ ...who are you in fellowship with???there is no middle ground....those who are in fellowship with him are in the light....when you break fellowship ...are you still in the light...and if you are still in the light ...then why are you repenting to restore fellowship....to come into a light that you are already in....what is amazing is you think you can sin be in darkness out of fellowship with Christ and still be in Christ saved and secure....salvation is in Christ ...there is no darkness in Christ....if you have sin in you you cannot be in Christ...sin separates us from Christ....Why do you think Jesus said this....
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

It is because we tend to overlook little things which can be a danger to our salvation...

2 Timothy 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

2 Timothy 3:15

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Romans 3:24

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

If I am born again then the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwell in me via the gift of Holy Spirit. Therefore if Christ is in me then I am in him.

Study the word "BORN" as in BORN AGAIN - anagennao from the Greek prefix ana - "again" or "up", and gennao - "to give birth". It means to be give birth to again, or to be born again, and it occurs in 1 Peter 1:3,23.

piliggenesia from palin - "again" and genesis - "origin". It means to have an origin again, a new genesis (beginning) and it occurs in Titus 3:5

apokeuo - from apo "away from" and kueo "to be pregnant". It means "to give birth to," and it occurs in James 1:18.

Men tend to think there are only two things in life that are permanent which is supposedly birth and death. But as Christians we know that death also is not permanent because we will rise again - so it seems that death isn't even permanent (except for unbelievers, i.e. second death). The only thing that is permanent is BIRTH. That is why God chose the language of birth to express the truth of what He does for us when we receive salvation. Our salvation, the new birth, is irreversible, irrevocable, enduring, lasting, does not fade, deteriorate, or lost. When God says we are born of His spirit, He means it.

One can be born of the Spirit of God or born of the devil . . . . those in darkness are not born of God, i.e. whosoever is born of God is in light because that light is in him . . . whosoever is born of the devil is in darkness . . . . can't have two different parents. Can I be in the light and sin? Apparently so because if I say I have no sin I am a liar. Now - I can walk in darkness - not having fellowship with him - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. . . . . These verses in 1 John are regarding our walk - our status in our relationship with the Father, the Son and the household of God - NOT as born again children of God. Ought we to walk as Christ walked - YES - but our salvation is not based on that - our salvation is based on being born of the Spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

How did I save myself? A life preserve would not help me, I have no power to grab ahold of it. I have spent years in the water, and I have no strength. The savior has to grab ahold of me and PULL me out of the water before I die or it is too late.

See, You guys do not understand your plight, you still think you have strength, You do not understand how ill you are. that is why you refuse to allow God to save you, and will continue to save yourself.

What is tragic is the fact that those who trust into water and works will one day be begging for water and there will be none to be found........

Jesus plus anything = a gospel with no power to save and leads to the lake....not of water...but of FIRE!

 

[SeaBass]

I suppose I am confused by the use of the word "legalism" when I posted several times that - well, obedience is an act of faith and led by His Spirit.
If we follow Romans 8 - and are led by His Spirit - His Spirit will direct us toward obeying His N.T. commandments or 'works'.

If that's "legalism" - then I'm a legalist.

Can you see where this could confuse someone?

adding quote that caused my confusion;


No, I have never said this. You do not even read what people say, your like the rest of your brothers and sisters and make false accusations, because you are reading through blind eyes, I was like yuo once, I was deep in legalism, and could not even fathom a faith only person believing we needed to obey God, I too could not listen to them, because my mind was blinded by the men who taught me.

The bible calls obedience to the will of God "righteousness". Some confuse doing God's righteousness (Acts 10:35; Rom 3:10) with the term "legalism". IF "legalism" is obeying God's will then NOT being a "legalist" is being a law-breaker, being disobedient in NOT doing the will of God.

 

[SeaBass]

Which one grace or faith that saved Abraham?

Both. Not grace only. Not faith only. But BOTH grace and faith.

 

[newbirth]

If I am born again then the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwell in me via the gift of Holy Spirit. Therefore if Christ is in me then I am in him.

Study the word "BORN" as in BORN AGAIN - anagennao from the Greek prefix ana - "again" or "up", and gennao - "to give birth". It means to be give birth to again, or to be born again, and it occurs in 1 Peter 1:3,23.

piliggenesia from palin - "again" and genesis - "origin". It means to have an origin again, a new genesis (beginning) and it occurs in Titus 3:5

apokeuo - from apo "away from" and kueo "to be pregnant". It means "to give birth to," and it occurs in James 1:18.

Men tend to think there are only two things in life that are permanent which is supposedly birth and death. But as Christians we know that death also is not permanent because we will rise again - so it seems that death isn't even permanent (except for unbelievers, i.e. second death). The only thing that is permanent is BIRTH. That is why God chose the language of birth to express the truth of what He does for us when we receive salvation. Our salvation, the new birth, is irreversible, irrevocable, enduring, lasting, does not fade, deteriorate, or lost. When God says we are born of His spirit, He means it.

One can be born of the Spirit of God or born of the devil . . . . those in darkness are not born of God, i.e. whosoever is born of God is in light because that light is in him . . . whosoever is born of the devil is in darkness . . . . can't have two different parents. Can I be in the light and sin? Apparently so because if I say I have no sin I am a liar. Now - I can walk in darkness - not having fellowship with him - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. . . . . These verses in 1 John are regarding our walk - our status in our relationship with the Father, the Son and the household of God - NOT as born again children of God. Ought we to walk as Christ walked - YES - but our salvation is not based on that - our salvation is based on being born of the Spirit.

babble.....if you are in the light and sin you go to darkness... If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie..... whosoever is born of the devil is in darkness ...for one to even consider walking in darkness is an abomination...and here you are saying our salvation is not based on that?If you were born of the spirit and you decide to sin and follow the devil ...you have no more fellowship with Christ but with the devil now...there is no middle ground...if you remain there till Christ comes or you die ...you will receive resurrection of the damned..
John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[newbirth]

How did I save myself? A life preserve would not help me, I have no power to grab ahold of it. I have spent years in the water, and I have no strength. The savior has to grab ahold of me and PULL me out of the water before I die or it is too late.

See, You guys do not understand your plight, you still think you have strength, You do not understand how ill you are. that is why you refuse to allow God to save you, and will continue to save yourself.

where did Jesus pull any disciple?....he said ...follow me...God calls ...God leads...God does not pull or push...you are a liar...the scripture does not teach that....

 

[crossnote]

Good post, crossnote. I picked up 'faith only person' from one of the posts by one that believes that we are saying what we are not saying. Regardless of how many times I've posted - trying to word things differently or just use Scripture - there were the accusations that I, as well as the few others, were saying that we are not saved by Grace through faith. That was their consistent response.
We were posting Scripture and getting back these type of replies until it was very difficult to communicate at all.
We we never contradicted "saved by Grace through faith" but were told we weren't saved, etc. etc..

Have a great day, Brother.

the only thing I would ask is not 'are you saved by grace through faith?' but 'are you saved by grace through faith alone '?

 

[crossnote]

how do you determine who is born again and who is not? one is born again of the water and the spirit...but you have your own personal salvation plan ..where one is born again according to the gospel of crossnote...and anyone who does not agree is not born again....Do we make void the law because of faith?.....you want to void the law because of faith....scriptire says we should not do that...You say I am a law monger because I obey the scripture....if one can be unborn is an ignorant question iff there was ever one...people don't get unborn ...they die....whether it is in the flesh or in the spirit ..they die...

Those who are born again understand they are a new creation in Christ all things have become new; you show no understanding in that regard.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

where did Jesus pull any disciple?....he said ...follow me...God calls ...God leads...God does not pull or push...you are a liar...the scripture does not teach that....

see. I rest my case.

they do not realise they are DEAD.

Alot of people followed him, It does not mean they are saved, Many left him because their faith was dead, Judas even followed him and did all kinds of work. yet he was never saved, his faith was dead.

Following Jesus is useless if we are not saved, born of God. We can do the same things, People can look at us, and not tell a difference between us (for the most part) yet only one of us is saved, those MADE ALIVE BY CHRIST.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

babble.....if you are in the light and sin you go to darkness... If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie..... whosoever is born of the devil is in darkness ...for one to even consider walking in darkness is an abomination...and here you are saying our salvation is not based on that?If you were born of the spirit and you decide to sin and follow the devil ...you have no more fellowship with Christ but with the devil now...there is no middle ground...if you remain there till Christ comes or you die ...you will receive resurrection of the damned..
John 5:29
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I see that you still do not understand the term "born". NO ONE wants to walk in darkness - but we all do at one time or another and IF YOU SAY YOU HAVE NOT SINNED, i.e. walked in darkness, YOU ARE A LIAR. Walking in sin = walking in darkness = OUT OF FELLOWSHIP that is what that verse says [1 John 1:6,7]. Once we are born again - we begin a walk; we sometimes stumble, we sometimes fall - when we stumble or fall (sin - miss the mark) we are OUT OF FELLOWSHIP and are walking in darkness and do not have fellowship one with another or with the Father and the Son (7) But when we are walking in the light - not stumbling or falling - we have FELLOWSHIP ONE WITH ANOTHER AND TRULY OUR FELLOWSHIP IS WITH THE FATHER, AND WITH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST (v3). Sin [walking in darkness] is temporary and while we are "in" it our fellowship is broken but our "birth" is permanent. BTW, those that are condemned are those who DENY Jesus Christ - PERIOD

Go ahead and believe in your self righteousness . . . . what do you think GRACE is there for? We NEED grace because we are perfect? We NEED forgiveness because we are perfect? YOUR own self righteousness is as filthy rags.

I have never said that we shouldn't strive to WALK by the Spirit - but we are not condemned to hell for not walking perfectly. If I am in the middle of a lie and Jesus Christ were to return at that moment - I would still go with Him - I have the "mark" of God upon me as His child - I have the Spirit of God dwelling within me and I am sealed with that Spirit until the day of redemption.

 

[newbirth]

Those who are born again understand they are a new creation in Christ all things have become new; you show no understanding in that regard.

exactly what I said...you seem to be the one who knows all who are saved and who are not...

 

[newbirth]

I see that you still do not understand the term "born". NO ONE wants to walk in darkness - but we all do at one time or another and IF YOU SAY YOU HAVE NOT SINNED, i.e. walked in darkness, YOU ARE A LIAR. Walking in sin = walking in darkness = OUT OF FELLOWSHIP that is what that verse says [1 John 1:6,7]. Once we are born again - we begin a walk; we sometimes stumble, we sometimes fall - when we stumble or fall (sin - miss the mark) we are OUT OF FELLOWSHIP and are walking in darkness and do not have fellowship one with another or with the Father and the Son (7) But when we are walking in the light - not stumbling or falling - we have FELLOWSHIP ONE WITH ANOTHER AND TRULY OUR FELLOWSHIP IS WITH THE FATHER, AND WITH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST (v3). Sin [walking in darkness] is temporary and while we are "in" it our fellowship is broken but our "birth" is permanent. BTW, those that are condemned are those who DENY Jesus Christ - PERIOD

while your fellowship is broken are you in darkness or in the light?

when we stumble or fall (sin - miss the mark) we are OUT OF FELLOWSHIP and are walking in darkness and do not have fellowship one with another or with the Father and the Son

we agree it is in darkness.....so if you die in that situation....will you say you died in Christ...or you died in sin....the scripture says the wages of sin is death...do you agree...??? if you died in sin how can you still be saved?

Go ahead and believe in your self righteousness . . . . what do you think GRACE is there for? We NEED grace because we are perfect? We NEED forgiveness because we are perfect? YOUR own self righteousness is as filthy rags.

where have I not spoken the word? forget me I am nothing...it is the truth that matters....

I have never said that we shouldn't strive to WALK by the Spirit -

never said you did...

but we are not condemned to hell for not walking perfectly.

never said we were...

If I am in the middle of a lie and Jesus Christ were to return at that moment - I would still go with Him - I have the "mark" of God upon me as His child - I have the Spirit of God dwelling within me and I am sealed with that Spirit until the day of redemption.

I don't have the authority to make that call....all I do is preach the word....

 

[peacefulbeliever]

while your fellowship is broken are you in darkness or in the light?

Let's see . . . 1 John 1:3 We proclaim to you (believers) what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. . . . This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; IN HIM there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. It does not say that one is not saved when one happens to walk in darkness - it says if we claim to have fellowship with him - we do not live out the truth. IOW - while one is walking in darkness - if they CLAIM to have fellowship with him, they lie and are not living the truth (of having fellowship with him). Fellowship is total communion with God and with Jesus Christ. Now NONE of that says that we are unsaved.

we agree it is in darkness.....so if you die in that situation....will you say you died in Christ...or you died in sin....the scripture says the wages of sin is death...do you agree...??? if you died in sin how can you still be saved?

I will say "I will die as a child of God - he knows those that are his". I am born again of incorruptible seed - even when I am out of fellowship that "seed" is not touched; it is incorruptible. We are fleshly beings - we carry with us that flesh until the day we die. The "flesh" lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit against the "flesh". THAT IS THE BATTLE and it is a battle. It is a moment by moment battle, a day by day battle. We ALL deal with these because we were not made perfect in the flesh when we received the Spirit.

where have I not spoken the word? forget me I am nothing...it is the truth that matters....
never said you did...
never said we were...

I don't have the authority to make that call....all I do is preach the word....

Yes, truth matters and also rightly dividing that word of truth. Let me ask you - If you are still sinning or should I say when you sin - do you believe that if you die while committing that sin - God will condemn you?

 

[TaylorTG]

Yes, it is possible for one to be truly saved, yet become unsaved later via his own accord. See Israel during the times of the Old Testament. God allowed them to cross an ocean, raised up judges, or saviors for them, and brought them to a land of milk and honey.

They were indeed saved, until they rebelled and lost God's favor.

In fact, In the New Testament, one of the Apostle's letters refers Christ's disciples to Israel. Warning them to take heed lest they "fall away". Since Israel's fellowship with the Divine is commonly compared to our own Christian fellowship, we may at least make that same comparison: We too may fall from God's grace.

 

[Cycel]

Maybe they weren't really saved in the first place?
Of course that is between them and the Lord, backslide-yes, unborn?,
.......naw, I really think if one is truly saved once, the Lord stays around.

I have heard of individuals who thought they were born again, but who later lost their belief in God.

 

[ChristIsGod]

I have heard of individuals who thought they were born again, but who later lost their belief in God.

I'd have to ask - Haven't we all? Unless we're babes in Christ - we've all heard -- at least in some Christian News source or website that so-and-so fell away completely after decades in the Church.

Our only difference between each other is that some believe that person that fell was never saved [and they may be right] and others believe they were saved but fell away becoming reprobate.

EITHER WAY - THEY PRESENTLY ARE NOT SAVED... and if that's all that we focused on - we wouldn't be having this many discussions on this topic for the last however many centuries as this argument has continued on.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Couldn't find a smilie that fit my frustration.

Maybe ?

 

[Bookends]

wo here brother

The book of John also shows that a person who was with us in faith, and departs from us rejecting christ were never of us, if they were, they never would have departed. but departed to prove they were never of us.

He follows by saying we have the anointing, Refering to the fact they never had the anointing, they were never saved.

Yes, but Paul seems to think a wild olive branch can be broken off once grafted in...read it yourself...

 

[ChristIsGod]

Yes, but Paul seems to think a wild olive branch can be broken off once grafted in...read it yourself...

Oh, well, yeah, but that was just Paul and he probably got it a little off because he was a Pharisee at one time - you know.

Ones greater than Paul are now in control of half the Church and unless you cut out [at the absolute minimum] half of your N.T., you're not saved either ................. like me. And more than half of what you cut out, will be from Paul.... see?
Because one minute he's telling us that we're not under the law and it's not of works -- but then once we are saved -- now he's saying we are judged by works and we're to follow the law of Christ.

Ya see - the man was probably all mixed up, being a Jew and all of that.

So vot can I tellya - the man was half schlemiel taught by Gamaliel.