Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[kennethcadwell]

No what you are is blind (forgive me for name calling, But when you do things over and over, how else should I put it?

I never said you were name calling or judging anyone, yet you keep accusing me of it. Which PROVES you do not read anything anyone says.


When you actually answer. You have never answered. You have not said, "They do not have faith in God how could they", Or
they had faith, or have it but...."

Look at your posts. you have never said either.


So what your saying is, a person who rejects Gods word about sin and obedience does not have faith in God? Is that what your saying?

I do read what you post, and you called me a bigot and judgmental.
I am not a bigot, and I do not think I am better then anybody as you have said before. I also am not judgmental, what I do is exactly the same thing Jesus and Paul did. When they came in front of other believers they referred back to scripture, and showed it to them.
They said look see what this person or that person has said, then they would tell them do you believe what they said and if so why do you not do it. For if they tell you to do something it is not from them, but from God who is working through them.

So if they tell you to do something, and I will give examples and I am not saying you do or don't do this it is just examples for all that are hearing what we have to say;

Examples;

When Jesus commanded in Matthew 16:16 and Matthew 28:19 to be baptized. This is God commanded this.
Then when Peter takes and still pushes this command to be baptized. It is God speaking through him to keep this command.

When Jesus commanded that you have to repent of your sins. This is God commanded it.
When Peter, Paul, James, John, and the others still confirm this need to repent of sins. This is God working through them saying nothing has changed, you still have to turn from your sins.


And the list goes on, confession, helping others, forgiveness, and so on...........

John 14:15
" If you love Me, you will keep My commands "

If a person rejects what they hear in the word then yes they have no faith in the Lord, if they hear and believe what is in His word then they will have faith and turn from their sins.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Context is a word that alludes you and one that you by your spiritual blindness you fail to see and or understand.....!

I know it goes against your man made workless doctrine and you think God will save you while you sit on the couch, but the bible says your works are recorded in a book and you will be in the last days judged by them (Rev 20:12), I did not say it, the bible did.

Now sit on the couch and let God save you're disobedient self.

 

[elf3]

Now I haven't read all the posts on here but it's the same old legalistic argument for "works for salvation".

Let me ask yinz something...are we not saved by grace? If God did not bestow grace upon us where do you think we would be? Do you think you could still "work" your way to heaven?

Hmm...what happened with the tower of Babel when they tried to reach heaven and make a name for themselves (Gen 11:1-9)? That worked great for them didn't it? All the sudden they couldn't even talk to each other.

Working to reach God sounds like a wonderful plan.

Or would you actually rather have faith in Christ and let the Holy Spirit work through you?

See the downfall of the legalists argument is that we cannot do any "good works" for God unless we first have faith in Christ. By having faith in Christ we are now justified before God and the Holy Spirit can use us. Are you actually doing these "good works" or is it by the Holy Spirit that you can do good works?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do read what you post, and you called me a bigot and judgmental.

My God dude, You can not read, and continue to prove you can not read.

You stated that to be saved, I must forgive all people.

My response that if I do not forgive everyone because I am a self centered biggot. then God will not forgive me.

Get over yourself. No one who read what I posted woyuld even think I claimed you were a biggot. Only you, because you are so self centered, you can not read, and think everyone is out to attack you!

(there I called you self centered this time, But only because you have proven it by claiming 4 times now I have called you a biggot)

 

[Jabberjaw]

Yep..

THE DEAD WERE JUDGED according to their works. No mention of being judged for their sin..And what HAPPENED TO THE DEAD?

[SUP]14 [/SUP]Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

So much for all your good works. see where it will get you.

You will be one of the ones screaming lf all your good works, when jesus tells you to depart. Notice how those alive in Christ will not be at that judgment. Maybe one day you will figure out what that is.

You make no sense and are deflecting what the bible teaches because it goes against your man made workless doctrine, you and I will be judged by our works, you cannot change that so you deflect from it:

Revelation 20:12 (NKJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

your works (and lack there of) are being recorded, and you will be judged by them. (makes your workless man made doctrine a fake)

 

[Jabberjaw]

My God dude, You can not read, and continue to prove you can not read.

You stated that to be saved, I must forgive all people.

My response that if I do not forgive everyone because I am a self centered biggot. then God will not forgive me.

Get over yourself. No one who read what I posted woyuld even think I claimed you were a biggot. Only you, because you are so self centered, you can not read, and think everyone is out to attack you!

(there I called you self centered this time, But only because you have proven it by claiming 4 times now I have called you a biggot)

So now you called him self centered leaving out the bigot?

 

[kennethcadwell]

The problem with those who want to debate that Revelation 20 only applies to the lost, is that it clearly says that the Book of Life was opened. If all these people are lost then there would be no need to open the Book of Life, for the Lord our God would already know their names are not written in there.
For believers have already stood before Christ, and been judged by Him for their deeds, and given rewards for how obedient they were to Him.

The only thing that God would need to do here is open His other books that keep a record of the lost sins, and then they will be judged and punished accordingly. For their is different amount of punishment issued out depending on how bad a person was. You can find this in scripture if you look.
There has to clearly be people who came to believe in Christ before this judgment in Revelation 20 in order for the Book of Life to be opened.

 

[dcontroversal]

I know it goes against your man made workless doctrine and you think God will save you while you sit on the couch, but the bible says your works are recorded in a book and you will be in the last days judged by them (Rev 20:12), I did not say it, the bible did.

Now sit on the couch and let God save you're disobedient self.

I suppose I should commend you for placing yourself under the Revelation chapter 20 judgment because it does apply unto the LOST and if you believe your works saves you...you are lost...Galatians chapter 1 and 3.....Good luck a the Great White Throne judgment of the Lost as recorded in Revelation 20!

 

[Jabberjaw]

Now I haven't read all the posts on here but it's the same old legalistic argument for "works for salvation".

Let me ask yinz something...are we not saved by grace? If God did not bestow grace upon us where do you think we would be? Do you think you could still "work" your way to heaven?

Hmm...what happened with the tower of Babel when they tried to reach heaven and make a name for themselves (Gen 11:1-9)? That worked great for them didn't it? All the sudden they couldn't even talk to each other.

Working to reach God sounds like a wonderful plan.

Or would you actually rather have faith in Christ and let the Holy Spirit work through you?

See the downfall of the legalists argument is that we cannot do any "good works" for God unless we first have faith in Christ. By having faith in Christ we are now justified before God and the Holy Spirit can use us. Are you actually doing these "good works" or is it by the Holy Spirit that you can do good works?

Revelation 20:12 (NKJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Sit on your workless self imposed religion and see if God saves you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do read what you post, and you called me a bigot and judgmental.
So if they tell you to do something, and I will give examples and I am not saying you do or don't do this it is just examples for all that are hearing what we have to say;

Examples;

When Jesus commanded in Matthew 16:16 and Matthew 28:19 to be baptized. This is God commanded this.
Then when Peter takes and still pushes this command to be baptized. It is God speaking through him to keep this command.

When Jesus commanded that you have to repent of your sins. This is God commanded it.
When Peter, Paul, James, John, and the others still confirm this need to repent of sins. This is God working through them saying nothing has changed, you still have to turn from your sins.


And the list goes on, confession, helping others, forgiveness, and so on...........

John 14:15
" If you love Me, you will keep My commands "

If a person rejects what they hear in the word then yes they have no faith in the Lord, if they hear and believe what is in His word then they will have faith and turn from their sins.

what does any of this have to do with faith?

If a person REJECTS what God says about sin and obedience (the reject the passages you just posted) can you sit here and tell me they EVER HAD FAITH IN GOD?

Why do you think they do not do those works?

 

[Jabberjaw]

I suppose I should commend you for placing yourself under the Revelation chapter 20 judgment because it does apply unto the LOST and if you believe your works saves you...you are lost...Galatians chapter 1 and 3.....Good luck a the Great White Throne judgment of the Lost as recorded in Revelation 20!

Revelation 20:12 (NKJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

It says you will be "judged according to their works" not "condemned because of their works"

Sit on you workless man made doctrine and see if God saves you for doing nothing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problem with those who want to debate that Revelation 20 only applies to the lost, is that it clearly says that the Book of Life was opened. If all these people are lost then there would be no need to open the Book of Life, for the Lord our God would already know their names are not written in there.
For believers have already stood before Christ, and been judged by Him for their deeds, and given rewards for how obedient they were to Him.

The only thing that God would need to do here is open His other books that keep a record of the lost sins, and then they will be judged and punished accordingly. For their is different amount of punishment issued out depending on how bad a person was. You can find this in scripture if you look.
There has to clearly be people who came to believe in Christ before this judgment in Revelation 20 in order for the Book of Life to be opened.

The problem with people who claim all people are there, is they do not read.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[SUP][c][/SUP] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. [SUP]13 [/SUP]The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them.

People who have been born of God are not dead. they are ALIVE.

then look at what it says to complete the passage.

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire.

Funny, It says the dead were delivered to him (not raised by him by the way, the child of God will be raised on the last day as Jesus promised in John 6, not delivered to him.) and then the same dead were cast into the lake of fire.

it can be quite an amazing eye opener when we actually read the passage, and see EVERYTHING it says, and not just pick out a few words, like the book of life..

 

[kennethcadwell]

My God dude, You can not read, and continue to prove you can not read.

You stated that to be saved, I must forgive all people.

My response that if I do not forgive everyone because I am a self centered biggot. then God will not forgive me.

Get over yourself. No one who read what I posted woyuld even think I claimed you were a biggot. Only you, because you are so self centered, you can not read, and think everyone is out to attack you!

(there I called you self centered this time, But only because you have proven it by claiming 4 times now I have called you a biggot)

So now you are saying that you are calling yourself a bigot and self centered ? If so then that was my mistake for it looked more like you were calling me that by how you worded it.

And no I did not say or state that you will not be saved if you do not forgive others, Jesus said that.

[h=1]Matthew 6:14-15[/h][h=1]14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Mark 11:25-26
25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.[/h]

 

[elf3]

You make no sense and are deflecting what the bible teaches because it goes against your man made workless doctrine, you and I will be judged by our works, you cannot change that so you deflect from it:

Revelation 20:12 (NKJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

your works (and lack there of) are being recorded, and you will be judged by them. (makes your workless man made doctrine a fake)

Ok yep we will be judged by our works and rewarded somehow by what we have done. I totally agree. But besides you totally taking James out of context and using poor exegesis where does it say we are justified by our works? Major difference between being judged and justified. We are justified by the blood of Christ. And um... by who's name can anyone be saved? Let me give you a hint...it's a name not a work

 

[dcontroversal]

The problem with those who want to debate that Revelation 20 only applies to the lost, is that it clearly says that the Book of Life was opened. If all these people are lost then there would be no need to open the Book of Life, for the Lord our God would already know their names are not written in there.
For believers have already stood before Christ, and been judged by Him for their deeds, and given rewards for how obedient they were to Him.

The only thing that God would need to do here is open His other books that keep a record of the lost sins, and then they will be judged and punished accordingly. For their is different amount of punishment issued out depending on how bad a person was. You can find this in scripture if you look.
There has to clearly be people who came to believe in Christ before this judgment in Revelation 20 in order for the Book of Life to be opened.

More misunderstanding as the as DEATH AND HELL deliver up the DEAD in them...Kenneth do you even read and understand CONTEXT.....serious! Read verse 5-6 and then 14-15 and wake up to the reality that it is the LOST that are being judged and that their names are NOT RECORDED in the BOOK OF LIFE....do you people even read and or understand context?????? And the fact that it is CALLED the SECOND death!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Revelation 20:12 (NKJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

It says you will be "judged according to their works" not "condemned because of their works"

Sit on you workless man made doctrine and see if God saves you for doing nothing.

My bible says I will be ressurected by Christ, not delivered to him.

That is where you are headed if you do not repent of your dead works, and come to Christ and LET HIM SAVE YOU.

John 6: [SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. [SUP]37 [/SUP]All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.


Romans 6:5
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,


1 Corinthians 15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.

2 Corinthians 5:1
[ Assurance of the Resurrection ] For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

 

[elf3]

Oh and I should say it's not a doctrine that saves me....it's the blood of Christ that saves.

 

[elf3]

Legalistic justification by works totally dilutes the blood of Christ! Did Jesus not say "it is finished"? Or did Jesus mean it's finished but you gotta work your butt off to attain salvation?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So now you are saying that you are calling yourself a bigot and self centered ? If so then that was my mistake for it looked more like you were calling me that by how you worded it.

No.. I am saying ANYONE WHO DOES NOT FORGIVE ANOTHER PERSON is a self centered person.

You claimed God would not forgive them, did you forget that??

And no I did not say or state that you will not be saved if you do not forgive others, Jesus said that.

Matthew 6:14-15

14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Mark 11:25-26
25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Thanks, you just said it again, You claim Jesus did not die for one who does not forgive others.

New flash.. When I was in sin, I did not forgive others, If jesus will not allow us into heaven because I did not forgive others. I am doomed to hell.

Now that I am alive in Christ, I do forgive others (because God forgave me, Not out of my power but Gods power)

But if I a aready doomed to hell because I did not forgive others, I guess I have no hope, I am dead iin my sin, no matter how many times I forgive others.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You make no sense and are deflecting what the bible teaches because it goes against your man made workless doctrine, you and I will be judged by our works, you cannot change that so you deflect from it:

Revelation 20:12 (NKJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

your works (and lack there of) are being recorded, and you will be judged by them. (makes your workless man made doctrine a fake)

yep. my works are being recorded. and when I appear before Christ at the BEMA SEAT judgment, I will be awarded by fire, if it endures I will recieve gold silver precious stone, if it does not it will be burned up. even so, I will still be saved, even as if through fire.

Your works will be judged to. not at the BEMA, but at the great white throne, where yuo will be cast into hell, because God rejects your righteous work, why? because you were not written i the book, You chose to save yourself, and rejected the salvation of God.