Trinity?

[VCO]

ENJOY!

[video=youtube;n0tryKdpl0s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0tryKdpl0s[/video]

 

[newbirth]

Re: no mind...

I know I have told you this before, but I still think the major difference between what you believe and what I believe, is nothing more than a difference in the definitions of TERMS we use. After this paragraph, let me try explain your side, as I now see it. I think this is important because the way you worded things in the past, I for a long time thought you were denying the Deity of Christ, the same as some of the factions within the Church of Christ denomination does, or the Jehovah Witnesses; teaching that JESUS is ONLY the OFFSPRING of GOD. In fact, some of your explanations come right out the pages of the Watchtower, especially that you used to think Trinitarians believe in three GODs. At least I hope that I have been able to correct your thinking of that at least. I have been documenting the beliefs of the psuedo Christian cults for a long time, at least 10 years before I bought my first computer in 1995. I still have those hard copies documenting their beliefs in two drawers of a filing cabinet in the garage. Yes, Dr. Walter Martin was one of the major influences on my spiritual growth in the 80's.

Correct my thinking?....Christ is God in the flesh....people limit God as if he were a man....
Psalm 33:6
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Hebrews 1:2-4King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.


A human body was prepared for the Word of God....(the word was made flesh)(flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God)
Hebrews 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:John 1:32
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Psalm 107:19-21King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then they cry unto the Lord in their trouble, and he saveth them out of their distresses.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Oh that men would praise the Lord for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!

Here is how I think you are now describing the GODhead:

I think we agree that the body of JESUS is human part of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is not a jigsaw puzzle....
the human body was prepared for the Word of God to dwell on earth and fulfil the law redeeming man from sin and death....flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...that body has since been transfigured into a celestial body....

I think you see the Spiritual Part of JESUS as GOD HIMSELF, with no three part division.

The fullness of God was in Christ...you have made God into parts...this is not legoland

Colossians 2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

I think you see the FATHER and the HOLY SPIRIT as GOD HIMSELF, with no three part division.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Zechariah 4:5-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

I think you see this is totally possible, because of HIS Omnipresence.

Correct me if I stated any of that wrong. IF you agree that I got that right, I will agree with those statements, including the "no three part division" within HIS DEITY. However I think His nature includes a three part division that is NOT talking about HIS DEITY. Hence Jesus prays and converses with the FATHER, the Holy Spirit is SENT by the Father, etc., etc.

first you must know in your heart if Jesus was God in the flesh at birth and what happen when he was baptised ...the Word of God humbled himself left all his power and glory even his eternal spirit and became a human to save us...lived his life a normal man without sin....at the age of 33 he began his ministry after being baptised and receiving the same Spirit he shared with God in the beginning....what do you think he was doing for those 33 yrs....he was doing exactly what the law required from man....with no special powers....The HS is not another entity the Lord is that Spirit

 

[ChristIsGod]

At 12 yrs old He stayed behind to share The Word answering and asking questions with those religious teacher guys at the temple when Mary & Joseph noticed he wasn't with them after a day of walking and it took them days to find Him, having to walk back to Jerusalem and when they found Him after 3 days, He asked them why they were looking for Him and said that they should have known that He had to be doing His Father's business. So, actually, He knew then and was operating in the Spirit before His baptism and didn't leave His eternal spirit anywhere but in Him but did lay aside His deity to walk as we're supposed to in order to be our Example ... but I do understand your post as a whole.

 

[notuptome]

At 12 yrs old He stayed behind to share The Word answering and asking questions with those religious teacher guys at the temple when Mary & Joseph noticed he wasn't with them after a day of walking and it took them days to find Him, having to walk back to Jerusalem and when they found Him after 3 days, He asked them why they were looking for Him and said that they should have known that He had to be doing His Father's business. So, actually, He knew then and was operating in the Spirit before His baptism and didn't leave His eternal spirit anywhere but in Him but did lay aside His deity to walk as we're supposed to in order to be our Example ... but I do understand your post as a whole.

He laid aside His glory not His deity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Bowman]

Re: no mind...

....people limit God as if he were a man....

Yahweh is a Man of war; Yahweh is His name. (Exo 15.3)

 

[VCO]

Re: no mind...

Correct my thinking?....Christ is God in the flesh....people limit God as if he were a man....
Psalm 33:6
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Hebrews 1:2-4King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.


A human body was prepared for the Word of God....(the word was made flesh)(flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God)
Hebrews 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:John 1:32
And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

Psalm 107:19-21King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Then they cry unto the Lord in their trouble, and he saveth them out of their distresses.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Oh that men would praise the Lord for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!




Jesus is not a jigsaw puzzle....
the human body was prepared for the Word of God to dwell on earth and fulfil the law redeeming man from sin and death....flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God...that body has since been transfigured into a celestial body....




The fullness of God was in Christ...you have made God into parts...this is not legoland

Colossians 2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.


2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Zechariah 4:5-7King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the Lord unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

first you must know in your heart if Jesus was God in the flesh at birth and what happen when he was baptised ...the Word of God humbled himself left all his power and glory even his eternal spirit and became a human to save us...lived his life a normal man without sin....at the age of 33 he began his ministry after being baptised and receiving the same Spirit he shared with God in the beginning....what do you think he was doing for those 33 yrs....he was doing exactly what the law required from man....with no special powers....The HS is not another entity the Lord is that Spirit

><>t<><

newbirth,

WE AGREE! I was right, Our differences are only in how we word things. Some of that is cultural, the difference between where you were raised and where I was raised; and the rest is the difference between between the way you think and I think. BUT from what you just wrote our theological views are amounting to the same thing. You had a misunderstanding of what Trinitarians believe, probably because of something you read, and those differences in how we say things.

FOR EXAMPLE: When you were talking about Christ's resurrected body, you said, "that body has since been transfigured into a celestial body", and I would have said, "that body was changed into a glorified body of flesh and bones", a term HE used in the bible to describe His resurrected, changed, Living Body minus the blood, which HE poured out for us.

Luke 24:36-43 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
[SUP]39 [/SUP] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
[SUP]40 [/SUP] And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
[SUP]42 [/SUP] And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] And he took it, and did eat before them.


In your first sentence of your post, I would have added this word, "many people limit God as if he were a man...." The understanding that GOD gave me to get me over that hurdle three decades ago, was that HIS OMNIPRESENCE, includes being Omnipresent in every second of time at that same time. HE is not a created being traveling through TIME as we know it, HE is the Creator of time as we know it. HE declares the end from the beginning because HE is OMNIPRESENT in both at the same time. HE writes our names in the Book of Life before the foundation of the World, because HE is OMNIPRESENT at every Conversion and the Beginning and the End all at the same time. HE TRULY IS THEE I AM!

No, I do not limit GOD as if He was a man, nor do many others who believe like I do.

The division of functions within the GODhead (Father and Son and Holy Spirit), never at any point slices through HIS SINGULAR DEITY. Sure HE set that GLORY and POWER of HIS Deity aside for 33 years while HE lived as a man, but HE DID NOT STOP being GOD in the flesh, but chose to NOT use HIS divine glory and powers for those 33 years. YES HE used HIS POWERS to do miracles during HIS earthly ministry. FOR EXAMPLE: In the feeding of the 5000 and the 4000, HE WAS DEMONSTRATING THAT HE WAS THE CREATOR. AND THEN, He took back HIS FULL DIVINE GLORY as He came out of the GRAVE.

YES, I absolutely believe our beliefs are very similar, and as we grow to understand what the other means by what HE says, we will find even more similarities, Brother.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Laid aside is not the same as "gave up" His Divinity.

He became subservient to the Father and didn't act autonomously as He gave the Father all the credit for the words that He spoke and the works that He did ... when if He hadn't done so and never gave the credit to the Father, He wouldn't have been our Example of how we're to walk solely dependent on God to do what He did as a 'man'. By laying aside His Deity and becoming subservient and dependent on God was for our benefit --- lest we would say well - "Well, He was GOD - and that's the only reason He was able to do all that He did and didn't do."

He had to live fully human though He was/is God -- in order to be our Example and say that we're to walk even as He walked while He was in the flesh.

ChristIsGod

 

[ChristIsGod]

Re: no mind...

VCO, may I say that you are without guile and not get you "puffed up"?

 

[ChristIsGod]

Re: no mind...

But your singin' sisters need more 'coverage'.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Re: no mind...

><>t<><

This is really neat!

 

[Bowman]

Laid aside is not the same as "gave up" His Divinity.

He became subservient to the Father and didn't act autonomously as He gave the Father all the credit for the words that He spoke and the works that He did ... when if He hadn't done so and never gave the credit to the Father, He wouldn't have been our Example of how we're to walk solely dependent on God to do what He did as a 'man'. By laying aside His Deity and becoming subservient and dependent on God was for our benefit --- lest we would say well - "Well, He was GOD - and that's the only reason He was able to do all that He did and didn't do."

He had to live fully human though He was/is God -- in order to be our Example and say that we're to walk even as He walked while He was in the flesh.

ChristIsGod

Show us one scripture which states that The Father is The Son.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Show me first where in the Old Testament that He was the son before conception.

I've asked you that before, too.


Oops, edit - forgot to add .

I have to go soon and I'm tired - so expect the unexpected when I'm tired and being rushed out my door to 'work'.

 

[newbirth]

Show us one scripture which states that The Father is The Son.

this may be a bit too deep even for you....
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[newbirth]

this may be a bit too deep even for you....
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God is the Father and the Word is Jesus.....just so you know....

 

[VCO]

He laid aside His glory not His deity.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

CORRECT!

John 17:4-5 (ISV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I glorified you on earth by completing the task you gave me to do.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] So now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world existed.

 

[VCO]

Re: no mind...

><>t<><

This is really neat!

Yes I am an OLD TIME FAN of:

ETC., but most of that stuff will not show up on internet posts, so I had to get creative with what would show up.

 

[Bowman]

Show me first where in the Old Testament that He was the son before conception.

This is He about whom I said, After me comes a Man who has been before me, for He was preceding me.(John 1.30)

 

[Bowman]

this may be a bit too deep even for you....
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

How can The Word BE The Father if The Word was WITH The Father?

At least two Persons are in view here.

 

[Bowman]

God is the Father and the Word is Jesus.....just so you know....

There is absolutely nothing in this verse, nor its immediate context, which denies that God is not The Spirit.

 

[Bowman]

Gnaw on this...

Show me first where in the Old Testament that He was the son before conception.

I've asked you that before, too.


Oops, edit - forgot to add .

I have to go soon and I'm tired - so expect the unexpected when I'm tired and being rushed out my door to 'work'.

While you are trying to dig up a verse which states that The Father is magically The Son, let me load you and your buddy up with a plethora of scripture mandating that The Son IS NOT The Father...

• The Father is not the Son(John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)
• The Son is not the Father(John 3.17, 35; 5.22-23, 31-32; 8.16-18; 11.41-42; 12.28; 14.31; 17.1-26; Rom. 1.7; 1 Cor. 1.3; 15.24-28; 2 Cor. 1.2; Gal. 1.3; 4.4; Eph. 1.2; 6.23; Phil. 1.2; 1 Thess. 1.1; 2 Thess. 1.1-2; 1 Tim. 1.1-2; 2 Tim. 1.2; Tit. 1.4; Phm. 3; James 1.1; 2 Pet. 1.2; 1 John 4.10; 2 John 3)