Ongoing plight of Palestinian Christians

[Drett]

Back in 1948, when Israel was established, Christians in Palestine made up around 18 percent of the population. Now it is around two percent only.


They have been faced with the same discriminatory policies as Muslim Palestinians, pushing thousands to leave Palestine. In a 2006 poll, Christians living in Bethlehem said Israeli aggression and occupation was the main cause of emigration.

Ongoing plight of Palestinian Christians - Inside Story - Al Jazeera English

 

[Agricola]

Your hatred of Jews and Israel is so strong that as a Muslim you even now try to defend Christians! amazing.

Anyway your facts are wrong, Christians have been ethnically cleansed from Bethlehem by Muslims, nothing to do with Israel. Religious freedom is allowed in Israel.

 

[Agricola]

So Christians face the same restrictions as Muslims, and so what? Anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence can understand that ALL people in West Bank and Gaza will be subject to control and restrictions regardless of race or religion. If Muslims stopped trying to kill Jews and fire rockets at Israel then the restrictions on population movement would be lifted.

 

[kaylagrl]

Palestinians are a made up group for political leverage against Israel.There is no such thing as Palestinian people.Look at history and when this name started popping up.Its way to push Jews out of Israel. So no I dont feel sorry,Christian or not.The land belongs to Israel and you dont need a Bible to prove that.

 

[Human]

Palestinians are a made up group for political leverage against Israel.There is no such thing as Palestinian people.Look at history and when this name started popping up.Its way to push Jews out of Israel. So no I dont feel sorry,Christian or not.The land belongs to Israel and you dont need a Bible to prove that.

Whether you recognize Palestinians as a people is irrelevent to whether or not they exist. What you're saying is like saying, during the height of the USSR, that there are no such thing as Ukranians; they exist now as they existed then. The British Empire recognized that the Israelis existed even when there was no Israel and the whole of Israel and Palestine was called 'British Palestine'. It was the British who pushed to create the partition of Israel and Palestine, and now the Palestinians are squashed into parameters of a 5-fold magnitude population density compared to the Israelis. The simple fact of the matter is that the lands of Palestine should be several times larger than they currently are, but Israel have claimed much of that land and illegally occupied it.

I recommend Robert Fisk's book, ''The Great War for Civilization''. He's lived and reported in the Middle East for the best part of 30 years, on many sides of different divides.

 

[Kencore]

Whether you recognize Palestinians as a people is irrelevent to whether or not they exist. What you're saying is like saying, during the height of the USSR, that there are no such thing as Ukranians; they exist now as they existed then. The British Empire recognized that the Israelis existed even when there was no Israel and the whole of Israel and Palestine was called 'British Palestine'. It was the British who pushed to create the partition of Israel and Palestine, and now the Palestinians are squashed into parameters of a 5-fold magnitude population density compared to the Israelis. The simple fact of the matter is that the lands of Palestine should be several times larger than they currently are, but Israel have claimed much of that land and illegally occupied it.

I recommend Robert Fisk's book, ''The Great War for Civilization''. He's lived and reported in the Middle East for the best part of 30 years, on many sides of different divides.

Ok Kaylagal is right when she says that there is no such a people as the so called Palestinians. First it's just an area coined by the Romans "philistia" just basically to upset the Jews of Isreal by referring the land of their enemies. That's why there is no coinage or land deeds or birth certificates or any legal documents that show certified by the land of Palestine. Not even any resemblance of government.
And Human, your right there are surely a people that are there but what are they? Well predominantly Arab. There are over 50 arab Muslim states that surround Isreal. Why couldn't some of these countries accept these "palastinians? Well they just don't want them. I don't know why since allah is so merciful and kind.
Isreal has given reparations, land for peace , medical and food supplies by the ton. And the lis goes on. An why do the Palestinians just constantly want more land after not accepting a larger portion during the original agreement? They simply can't stand Isreal, the land. The only good Jew, to a Palestinian, Is a dead Jew. It has nothing to do with the land and has everything to do with the Jews.
There is absolutely no doubt that Isreal and Jerusalem existed in the past and was ruled by the Jewish nation. I personally would rather give the land to a people who actually existed before than to give more land to a mythical Palestinian nation.

 

[Human]

Ok Kaylagal is right when she says that there is no such a people as the so called Palestinians. First it's just an area coined by the Romans "philistia" just basically to upset the Jews of Isreal by referring the land of their enemies. That's why there is no coinage or land deeds or birth certificates or any legal documents that show certified by the land of Palestine. Not even any resemblance of government.
And Human, your right there are surely a people that are there but what are they? Well predominantly Arab. There are over 50 arab Muslim states that surround Isreal. Why couldn't some of these countries accept these "palastinians? Well they just don't want them. I don't know why since allah is so merciful and kind.
Isreal has given reparations, land for peace , medical and food supplies by the ton. And the lis goes on. An why do the Palestinians just constantly want more land after not accepting a larger portion during the original agreement? They simply can't stand Isreal, the land. The only good Jew, to a Palestinian, Is a dead Jew. It has nothing to do with the land and has everything to do with the Jews.
There is absolutely no doubt that Isreal and Jerusalem existed in the past and was ruled by the Jewish nation. I personally would rather give the land to a people who actually existed before than to give more land to a mythical Palestinian nation.

There are no coins because they do not have the means to make them; Israel contol what goes in and out of Palestine. As for 'deeds', perhaps you should read the legal partition from the British Empire.

If Palestine is mythical on the basis that the original occupiers of certain lands have the eternal rights to it, then on the same logic the world's mythical lands include; the Herzogovina, Bosnia, Serbia, Northern Ireland, The People's Republic of China, Outer Mongolia, Canada, The United States of America, France, Germany, The United Kingdom and in fact every single current land border on planet Earth.

If the Palestinians are not 'Palestinians' because of their apparent descent from Arabs (even though they predominantly derive from Greeks) which, following your logic means they are actually people of their original descent and not their current identity, then people who are not what they claim to be include; Northern Irish (who are assumedly English by your logic), French Gauls (who are assumedly Spanish by your logic), African Americans (who are assumedly African by your logic), Irish Americans (who are assumedly Irish by your logic), Italian Americans (who are assumedly Italiam by your logic), any Americans other than natives, Hiatians (who are French or African by your logic), Israelis (who descend from Adam, in modern day Iraq). In fact, using your logic, everyone should return to Iraq, since Iraq is where most credited scholars believe the first Homo Sapiens to have been.

To use this argument is utterly ridiculous. The Palestinians lived under Ottoman, and then British, rule in and around Gaza for hundreds of years, while the Jews generally lived further North-East. The partition gave almost a 50/50 split of British Palestine to the Palestinians and the Israeli people, and the Israelis have since claimed and occupied land amounting to more than half what the Palestinian people were given. It is illegal, and it is wrong, and the only nations in the world who do not seem to recognize this are the US and Israel.

 

[Agricola]

Human, You do realise that you are being fooled into buying this "stolen land" rehotic don't you?

Most of the land Israel has gained is from victories in war where Arab nations tried to kill every Jew and turn Israel into rubble.

The so called Stolen Land, is in fact ALL of Israel, did you know that? When Muslims speak of Stolen Land and reclaiming it, they really mean they want to kill all Jews and turn Israel into rubble, the smoke screen of a few acres of land here and there is blinding liberal do gooders in the West who like to think they know about the issues but do not.

I notice people singing "From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free",that is a song of Genocide and refers to the desctruction of Israel.

The Hatred of Israel and Jews has backfired for the Muslims and Arab nations, they hated the idea of Jews having a sate more than the possibility of another Arab nation, aka Palestine, that they said they would not vote for a Palestinian State as it meant they would also have to see Israel as well. However UN went ahead and set up Israel despite Arab nations protesting. The first day of Israel as a nation saw the Arab nations attack the new country, but they failed and God saw to it they would not over run his chosen people. Been like that ever since.


Another fact that people over look, is that Israel pulled completely out of Gaza, with promise of free border movement is Israel was left in peace, but of course that never happened, as soon as power was handed over to the PA, missiles and mortars reigned down daily on Israel.

Here is also something interesting, the Palestinian flag prior to 1948, here it is in a book for evidence. Flag is right hand side page, 3rd row 3rd column.

 

[Human]

Human, You do realise that you are being fooled into buying this "stolen land" rehotic don't you?

Most of the land Israel has gained is from victories in war where Arab nations tried to kill every Jew and turn Israel into rubble.

The so called Stolen Land, is in fact ALL of Israel, did you know that? When Muslims speak of Stolen Land and reclaiming it, they really mean they want to kill all Jews and turn Israel into rubble, the smoke screen of a few acres of land here and there is blinding liberal do gooders in the West who like to think they know about the issues but do not.

I notice people singing "From the River to the Sea Palestine will be free",that is a song of Genocide and refers to the desctruction of Israel.

The Hatred of Israel and Jews has backfired for the Muslims and Arab nations, they hated the idea of Jews having a sate more than the possibility of another Arab nation, aka Palestine, that they said they would not vote for a Palestinian State as it meant they would also have to see Israel as well. However UN went ahead and set up Israel despite Arab nations protesting. The first day of Israel as a nation saw the Arab nations attack the new country, but they failed and God saw to it they would not over run his chosen people. Been like that ever since.


Another fact that people over look, is that Israel pulled completely out of Gaza, with promise of free border movement is Israel was left in peace, but of course that never happened, as soon as power was handed over to the PA, missiles and mortars reigned down daily on Israel.

Here is also something interesting, the Palestinian flag prior to 1948, here it is in a book for evidence. Flag is right hand side page, 3rd row 3rd column.

View attachment 94298

As a Protestant Christian, you should probably brush up on your doctrinal heritage and stop supporting Jews, or change religion. Martin Luther, founder of Protestantism was as anti-Semitic as Hitler (see Luther's book, ''On the Jews and Their Lies''), but were I to assert that you are the same, I would be wrong. Just like you asserting that every Muslim is an anti-Semite is wrong.

Back on topic, Gaza is just a tiny amount of what the Palestinians were promised. I'm almost finished Robert Fisk's 'The Great War for Civilization'. It's a pretty unbiased report of the Middle East in the last 30 years, referenced against further historical documents. There's a section just for Israel. You should read it.

 

[crossnote]

As a Protestant Christian, you should probably brush up on your doctrinal heritage and stop supporting Jews, or change religion. Martin Luther, founder of Protestantism was as anti-Semitic as Hitler (see Luther's book, ''On the Jews and Their Lies''), but were I to assert that you are the same, I would be wrong. Just like you asserting that every Muslim is an anti-Semite is wrong.

We don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Luther was right on some points and wrong on some points. We don't follow Luther but glean from where he was right.

Back on topic, Gaza is just a tiny amount of what the Palestinians were promised. I'm almost finished Robert Fisk's 'The Great War for Civilization'. It's a pretty unbiased report of the Middle East in the last 30 years, referenced against further historical documents. There's a section just for Israel. You should read it.

The Arabs (of whom the Palestinians are a part) own umpteen times more land than Israel has. Why won't the Arabs help their "Palestinian" brothers by giving them some of their plenteous land and leave Israel in peace?

 

[Mitspa]

These Christians should read their bible and know that God gave the Land to the Jews? Don't they have bibles?

 

[Human]

We don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Luther was right on some points and wrong on some points. We don't follow Luther but glean from where he was right.


The Arabs (of whom the Palestinians are a part) own umpteen times more land than Israel has. Why won't the Arabs help their "Palestinian" brothers by giving them some of their plenteous land and leave Israel in peace?

All middle eastern people are not Arab like you all seem to think. Afghans are Afghans, Iraqis are Iraqis, Iranians and Iranians, Pakistanis are Pakistanis, Kurds are Kurds, Jordanians and Jordanians, Arabs are Arabs and Palestinians are Palestinians. The Arabian government will not help them because they are in bed with the Americans. The Jordanians were denounced by Hamas and thus will not help the Palestinian people. The Israelis lie to the East and control Palestine, they do little to help. Afghanistan is a wilderness, and those who did help the Palestinians (bin Laden etc) have been decimated, which ironically gave rise to the ever more extreme Islamic State. The Lebanese are in similar state. The rest of the countries are either destabilized, puppet governments for the US or heaving with IS or Taliban. You can thank the Americans for making a lovely little mess in this part of the world.

 

[Kencore]

Human tell me what the flag of Palestine looked like before say 1910. The reason you won't find one is because there were only 3 chunks of land in the mid- east, Ottoman, Arabia and Egypt that's it. Palestine was never a country ever! When I asked for coinage I was talking about anything from the time of Jesus to 1900. There is nothing. Nothing. In the areas now are mostly Arab. Jordanians are Arab, Syrians are Arab, Lebanese mostly Arab Egyptians Arab all thanks to your buddy mohammed. Oh and by the way Jordan was never a country either until after Sykes/Picot 1917. I think the "Palastinians" should squat in "Jordan" and leave Isreal alone. Trust me they'll live longer that way..

 

[ThomistColin]

All middle eastern people are not Arab like you all seem to think. Afghans are Afghans, Iraqis are Iraqis, Iranians and Iranians, Pakistanis are Pakistanis, Kurds are Kurds, Jordanians and Jordanians, Arabs are Arabs and Palestinians are Palestinians.

You think this is inclusive but you've missed a point. Arab is a wide ranging ethnic group that can be broken into different ethnicities. Kurds are their own ethnic group. However, Afghan, Iraqi, Iranian, Pakistani, and Jordanian are not ethnic groups, they are nationalities. Afghanistan is made up of Turks, Kurds, Arabs, and Persians, as is Iraq. Iran is mostly Persian with a smattering of different ethnicities. Pakistan is made up of mostly Turks and Indians. Jordan is mostly Arab, specifically Syrian Arabs, which are their own ethnic group.

Each of these ethnicities range across religions and political ideals to the point that at times cultural differences become more important than biological ancestries. Turkish and Indian Pakistanis who are Muslim have more in common with each other than their Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist counterparts.

(But Colin, Turks are from Turkey... Actually, they aren't. They are descended from nomads in India who converted to Islam, migrated down the Silk Road, and settled in Asia Minor. Most of these were descended of Mongolian, Chinese, Indian, and Arab bloodlines. They were an ethnic group born out of the Great Khanate and many are descended of Kublai Khan's Golden Horde which invaded the Holy Land. This ethnic group rose up and pushed the Greek and Macedonian ethnic groups that ruled over modern day Turkey and pushed them into modern day Greece. All of this is to put that the two largest concentrations of Turkish peoples are Turkey and Pakistan.​)

 

[ThomistColin]

The Arabian government will not help them because they are in bed with the Americans. The Jordanians were denounced by Hamas and thus will not help the Palestinian people. The Israelis lie to the East and control Palestine, they do little to help. Afghanistan is a wilderness, and those who did help the Palestinians (bin Laden etc) have been decimated, which ironically gave rise to the ever more extreme Islamic State. The Lebanese are in similar state. The rest of the countries are either destabilized, puppet governments for the US or heaving with IS or Taliban. You can thank the Americans for making a lovely little mess in this part of the world.

As for your second point, the Palestinian peoples rejected help from the governments of Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Syria, and Jordan in the 1920s-1930s, when they launched massive terrorist campaigns against those governments. However, since the fall of the Ottoman Empire, the King of Jordan, descended of Suleiman the Wise, Sultan of Egypt (I bring that up because through Medieval constructs of politics the King of Jordan is the rightful King of Jordan) was the sovereign of the Palestinian peoples. He became their spokesman in the United Nations and to Great Britain during their control of the Holy Land. When Israel became a nation, the King of Jordan again acted as the leader of the Palestinian peoples. However, in the late 1960s, after the Six Day War, the Palestinian peoples were convinced by leaders of Black September, the PLO, and the first foundlings of Hamas and Fatah to petition the King of Jordan to relinquish his claim as sovereign over the Palestinian peoples. The Palestinians were led to believe that if given their own nation, the King of Jordan would claim their lands as his own, thus depriving them of their own land. The Palestinians petitioned the King and as a good and gracious sovereign, he relinquished his claim. From that moment on, the Palestinian cause for their own state has been led by terrorists or semi-peaceful warlords. These are not the building blocks of a nation, but of anarchy. With Gaza and the West Bank separated, one side is under the control of Fatah and the other Hamas, there is no Palestinian unity.

Osama Bin Laden did not support the Palestinian peoples. He believed they were a mongrel race of people best suited to "serving the cause and no more". Bad example.

Also, realize three things:
First, ISIS did not come out of nowhere, it has always been their in the hopes of the return of the Caliphate since the first one fell to Kublai Khan's Mongol Empire, and the second fell to Salah al-Din with aid in its weakening by the First Crusade.
Second, if al-Baghdadi is who he claims to be (the direct descendent of Hussein and therefore the True Caliph), his family has moved through the political schemes of the Arab world for almost 800 years.
Third, ISIS is born of a long standing tradition of terrorists, an offshoot of al-Qaeda, trained with Hezbollah, AND is killing off those groups who dare pop up in their territory. ISIS is hell bent on domination, not liberation.

Finally, you can thank every major power of the last 2000 years for leading us to this moment, not the nation that is less than 300 years old. How about England, Turkey, Greece, Rome, Germany, Egypt, the Khanate, Russia, and many many more world powers that have played their politics in the Middle East?

 

[Human]

Human tell me what the flag of Palestine looked like before say 1910. The reason you won't find one is because there were only 3 chunks of land in the mid- east, Ottoman, Arabia and Egypt that's it. Palestine was never a country ever! When I asked for coinage I was talking about anything from the time of Jesus to 1900. There is nothing. Nothing. In the areas now are mostly Arab. Jordanians are Arab, Syrians are Arab, Lebanese mostly Arab Egyptians Arab all thanks to your buddy mohammed. Oh and by the way Jordan was never a country either until after Sykes/Picot 1917. I think the "Palastinians" should squat in "Jordan" and leave Isreal alone. Trust me they'll live longer that way..

Arab is a nationality. Jodanian is a nationality. Syrian is a nationality. Yemeni is a nationality. Egyptian is a nationality. Palestine was a region under Ottoman rule, then British rule. Palestinian was a nationality in those periods, and is now an ethnic demographic without a nationality.

My point is, Kencore, just because British Palestine only existed from 1920-1946 is irrelevent to the fact that the place existed, and the 'Palestinians' existed long before that under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. By your logic, Palestinians are Arab and Palestine never existed because you say it was a nation that was 'formed' at some point. By that logic, however, NO current state exists under its present borders, because EVERY state was established at some point or another and has undergone change.

The United States of America didn't exist for hundreds of thousands of years. The USA isn't even 300 years old. Therefore, by your logic, nobody is American, they're all Irish or British or Dutch, and the United States of America is not a country. It's an absurd argument.

 

[ThomistColin]

Arab is a nationality.

Arab is an ethnicity, not a nationality. Saudi is a nationality.

 

[ThomistColin]

Arab is a nationality. Jodanian is a nationality. Syrian is a nationality. Yemeni is a nationality. Egyptian is a nationality. Palestine was a region under Ottoman rule, then British rule. Palestinian was a nationality in those periods, and is now an ethnic demographic without a nationality.

My point is, Kencore, just because British Palestine only existed from 1920-1946 is irrelevent to the fact that the place existed, and the 'Palestinians' existed long before that under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. By your logic, Palestinians are Arab and Palestine never existed because you say it was a nation that was 'formed' at some point. By that logic, however, NO current state exists under its present borders, because EVERY state was established at some point or another and has undergone change.

The United States of America didn't exist for hundreds of thousands of years. The USA isn't even 300 years old. Therefore, by your logic, nobody is American, they're all Irish or British or Dutch, and the United States of America is not a country. It's an absurd argument.

Overall though, what is your argument, we lived here long enough, it's ours now? Even though God promised the land to Abraham and his descendants forever? So the Jews should just leave because Rome kicked them out? The Israelites conquered the land God commanded them to conquer. Then, they were conquered and dispersed by the Romans. So, is your point that because the Palestinians had it last, its there's? By that argument, it leads us down a rabbit holes of finder's keepers.

 

[Human]

Arab is an ethnicity, not a nationality. Saudi is a nationality.

The point is, Thomist, the arguments proposed (go way from Palestine, oh ye Palestinians, for ye belong in Arab nations) is troubling on several levels:

1. Many Palestinians are not Arab, so grouping all Palestinians into the Arab box is ignorant.

2. Many who are of Arab descent share little with contemporary Saudi/Jordanian/Egyptian customs, hence consider themselves either Palestinian or Arab-Palestinian.

3. Not all Palestinians are Muslims.

4. Perhaps most insidiously, telling all Palestinians (whom people seem to collectively group 'Arab' and 'Muslim') to basically ''go back to where you came from'' is like telling third or fourth generation African Americans to get on a boat to Africa. Would anyone here do that?

 

[Human]

Overall though, what is your argument, we lived here long enough, it's ours now? Even though God promised the land to Abraham and his descendants forever? So the Jews should just leave because Rome kicked them out? The Israelites conquered the land God commanded them to conquer. Then, they were conquered and dispersed by the Romans. So, is your point that because the Palestinians had it last, its there's? By that argument, it leads us down a rabbit holes of finder's keepers.

That's not my argument at all. I am endeavouring to show up the idiocy of that very argument, and the unfariness portrayed by those who use a double standard in asserting it. Many Americans are saying ''The land is Israel's, they were there first''. Well if Palestinians have no rights to the land because they have only inhabited it for a few hundreds years, give or take, then by the same logic non-Native Americans have no rights to American land based off the same premises.

If the argument is put forward ''The PAlestinians have Arab heritage, they should go back to Arab countries'', then by the same logic I could say ''African Americans have African heritage, they should go back to Africa''.

The point I am making is not ''The Palestinians lived there long enough to own the land'', nor is it ''The Jews should just leave'', my point is to point out the inaccuracies in such an argument at all.

If you want my argument for Palestinians being able to have the land they lay claim to, it would be a legal argument on the basis of international treaties regarding international law on occupation and on the legal borders of Palestine and the state of Israel, which are currently being infringed by the Israeli occupation.

Since the formation of the nations, Palestinians have lost more than 50% of the land they legally own to the Israelis.