The text does not say that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
The text says, "God will bring with Him (GOD) those who sleep in Jesus."
The text says, "God will bring with Him (GOD) those who sleep in Jesus."
"if For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those having slept through
Jesus will bring with Him."
And my Bible translates it:
"God will bring with (him) Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him."
Jesus is not coming with God. The text does not say that they come together. The return of Christ and the Return of God are separate events. The point is not moot, it is a very important distinction.
Once we die, we are with the Lord God and will always be with Him while in spiritual form.
Paul's use of the word, "Lord" below is GOD the Father and not Jesus because
Paul does not include Jesus with the word "Lord."
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens... "So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."
Once we die, we are with the Lord God and will always be with Him while in spiritual form.
Paul's use of the word, "Lord" below is GOD the Father and not Jesus because
Paul does not include Jesus with the word "Lord."
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens... "So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord."
and many of them do not include "Jesus" with the word "Lord."
Actually, Paul did not use "Lord" to refer to God the Father.
Thus, if we are dead, we are with God. If there are two returns, one of Christ and one of the Father and if they are distinct and separate returns,
is there then not room for an earthly millennial reign of Christ which you deny?
is there then not room for an earthly millennial reign of Christ which you deny?
It's not about if "there is room," it's about "does Scripture teach it?"
However, Scripture teaches one kingdom of Messiah, established at his first coming, and which lasts forever (Da 2:44).
The authoritative teaching of Dan (as distinct from personal interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles) allows for no other earthly kingdom of the Messiah.
Also, if 1 Thes 4 is not discussing the return of Christ and is instead
discussing the return of God, does that not completely destroy the Pre-Trib doctrine?
discussing the return of God, does that not completely destroy the Pre-Trib doctrine?
It doesn't need 1Th 4:14 to unseat it.
There are not two raptures,
nor two second comings,
nor two last trumpets,
nor two physical resurrections,
nor two earthly Messianic kingdoms,
nor two bodies of Christ,
nor two final world battles,
nor two final judgments.
These duplications of things which are the same are based in personal interpretation of unfulfilled prophetic riddles, which interpretation contradicts authoritative NT teaching.
Last edited: