THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

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Mitspa said:
What? do you find fault in Him? He came to the world to save it...the Father sent Him and His prayer was for those who would receive Him....just like the law still condemns the whole world that has not accepted His grace.
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[h=1]John 17:9King James Version (KJV)[/h]9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

grace is for those that sin therefore when one sins grace comes into play

you all will never get it

[h=1]1 John 2:1King James Version (KJV)[/h]2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
This is what lawkeepers abide by
 
1 John 2:1King James Version (KJV)

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
This is what lawkeepers abide by
 
kennethcadwell said:
Well that is not your choice to make, as that is God's choice who He appoints where in the church.
I have tried my whole life growing up to try and pull away from this calling, He kept pulling me back and it took the chastising that put me at rock bottom 8 years ago before I woke up and accepted it. I wanted to get into prophecy studies and prophecy teaching, but the Holy Spirit would not let me. He kept making me study and learn the warnings that Paul gave to believers, and through that learned how the law is now established in our lives. Love does fulfill all, but like I said that fulfillment does not mean done away. It means fulfilled, as in lived in as part of your life and not ordinances.

If you say a person can not keep the 10 Commandments, even with the Holy Spirit in their life then you are putting limitations on God's ability.

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Mark 10:27
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Then Paul tells Timothy this about those who claim to be holy, but deny the power of the Holy Spirit working in them;

2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
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Well if you think God has given you position in and authority ...that's your choice...lots of folks believe that! But the scriptures make clear that the law is not of faith and its a ministry of death and condemnation and the strength of sin....so you not ready to teach anyone and you don't seem to be willing to learn from those who have real understanding?
 
ELECT said:
1 John 2:1King James Version (KJV)

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
This is what lawkeepers abide by
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Where are these lawkeepers? Because the law declares that there is none...no not one!
 
Mitspa said:
Well if you think God has given you position in and authority ...that's your choice...lots of folks believe that! But the scriptures make clear that the law is not of faith and its a ministry of death and condemnation and the strength of sin....so you not ready to teach anyone and you don't seem to be willing to learn from those who have real understanding?
Click to expand...
[h=1]Job 34:34King James Version (KJV)[/h]34 Let men of understanding tell me, and let a wise man hearken unto me.
 
Mitspa said:
Where are these lawkeepers? Because the law declares that there is none...no not one!
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you will never get it like i said he said sin not thus keep the law yet David is and example where grace comes in

which is like 2 criminals one trying to do the right thing and stubbling yet the other just does not care and does evil
Who do you think will get grace ?
 
Mitspa said:
Where are these lawkeepers? Because the law declares that there is none...no not one!
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What does this mean did they break the law and ordinances ?
Luke 1:5-6King James Version (KJV)

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
 
ELECT said:
you will never get it like i said he said sin not thus keep the law yet David is and example where grace comes in

which is like 2 criminals one trying to do the right thing and stubbling yet the other just does not care and does evil
Who do you think will get grace ?
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your not even making biblical sense.... The one who believed ...got saved
 
Hizikyah said:
Pick and choose.... round and round we go, a single sin makes us guilty but a single sin does not make us Lawless

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Originally Posted by Hizikyah
not confessing that sin would...


1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness


Seems to me not being subject is fatal error, not by my words, by His.....

So is "the condition of without law" actually one who seeks obedience to Yahwe's Law and confesses to Yah when he sins? or what is Lawlessness? Is it not being subject to Yah's Law?
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Yes, round and round we go as the same points of disagreement pop up.

And as you violate the law (definition1b of iniquity) then you are condemned by your own words. Just ONE offence makes you guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10.

Why?
Because you are under the jurisdiction of the law as you determine your righteousness by it. And whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

Ill be be back again tonight. I only have my iPad to work with at the moment and it is problematic when posting on this forum.
 
2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless, the Foundation of Yahweh stands sure, having this seal: Yahweh knows those who are His, because everyone who reverences the Name of Yahweh departs from iniquity."
 
Mitspa said:
your not even making biblical sense.... The one who believed ...got saved
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both saints and sinner are criminals yet one has a lawyer to plead his case the other does not that is where grace comes in

you dont want to think it through but argure that is why many ever learning not able to come to the truth

Chris gave a parable on it with the two sons who were given work then the other decide to go

The Holy Spirit ,make intersession for the saved not the unsaved
 
haz said:
Yes, round and round we go as the same points of disagreement pop up.

And as you violate the law (definition1b of iniquity) then you are condemned by your own words. Just ONE offence makes you guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10.

Why?
Because you are under the jurisdiction of the law as you determine your righteousness by it. And whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

Ill be be back again tonight. I only have my iPad to work with at the moment and it is problematic when posting on this forum.
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What is Jesus coming to reward man for ?
 
Mitspa said:
Well if you think God has given you position in and authority ...that's your choice...lots of folks believe that! But the scriptures make clear that the law is not of faith and its a ministry of death and condemnation and the strength of sin....so you not ready to teach anyone and you don't seem to be willing to learn from those who have real understanding?
Click to expand...


The written laws are the ministry of death, not the moral laws of God that is written in our heart and the Holy Spirit guides us to walk in. Those Commandments written in our hearts are not ministry of death, for the Holy Spirit will not let you disobey them. And if you still do, you grieve the Holy Spirit and He convicts you for it leading you to confess your sorrow for such. I am ready to teach, as it is you who still can not get over the written part. You see the word law, and you think it means all law. But it is only referring to the written laws that man by himself can not keep.
Under the new covenant we have the Holy Spirit that helps us keep the commandments, and once again the Lord did not just give one commandment. And what God writes on our heart is not just belief and love, unless you consider the belief part as hearing and doing all that the Lord said. Then I would agree with you.
For a believer is one who hears and does everything the Lord said. ( Luke 6:46-49, Matthew 28:20 )
 
ELECT said:
both saints and sinner are criminals yet one has a lawyer to plead his case the other does not that is where grace comes in

you dont want to think it through but argure that is why many ever learning not able to come to the truth

Chris gave a parable on it with the two sons who were given work then the other decide to go

The Holy Spirit ,make intersession for the saved not the unsaved
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Look you can argue against the truth of the gospel if you like...if it seems unfair to you? Then maybe your blind to your own need for grace....All are guilty and none are good...that's the purpose of the law...that why the Lord said the harlot would enter into the Kingdom before the self-righteous ...
 
Mitspa said:
Look you can argue against the truth of the gospel if you like...if it seems unfair to you? Then maybe your blind to your own need for grace....All are guilty and none are good...that's the purpose of the law...that why the Lord said the harlot would enter into the Kingdom before the self-righteous ...
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the halort would enter if they repent my friend not remain a harlot
 
kennethcadwell said:
The written laws are the ministry of death, not the moral laws of God that is written in our heart and the Holy Spirit guides us to walk in. Those Commandments written in our hearts are not ministry of death, for the Holy Spirit will not let you disobey them. And if you still do, you grieve the Holy Spirit and He convicts you for it leading you to confess your sorrow for such. I am ready to teach, as it is you who still can not get over the written part. You see the word law, and you think it means all law. But it is only referring to the written laws that man by himself can not keep.
Under the new covenant we have the Holy Spirit that helps us keep the commandments, and once again the Lord did not just give one commandment. And what God writes on our heart is not just belief and love, unless you consider the belief part as hearing and doing all that the Lord said. Then I would agree with you.
For a believer is one who hears and does everything the Lord said. ( Luke 6:46-49, Matthew 28:20 )
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What do you think was written and engraved in stones?

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
 
ELECT said:
the halort would enter if they repent my friend not remain a harlot
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Those are the Lords words...not mine
and
...the point still stands that the self-righteous will not enter in...So no one "earns" the things of God...there not a sliding rule for those who try real hard to keep the law.
 
Mitspa said:
Those are the Lords words...not mine
and
...the point still stands that the self-righteous will not enter in...So no one "earns" the things of God...there not a sliding rule for those who try real hard to keep the law.
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law keepers are not self righteous seems like grace keepers are self righteous to me
 
Mitspa said:
What do you think was written and engraved in stones?

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
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I know what was written on the stones, but once again you show your lack of understanding.
For the commandments were ministers of death because man by themselves could not keep them properly, and by breaking any one of them was corporal punishment in the ordinances of the old mosaic covenant.
Under the new covenant we now have them written in our hearts, and we have the Holy Spirit to help and guide us in keeping them. So we are not doing it by ourselves, we our keeping them with God's help through His Holy Spirit.

With God and through Christ all things are possible, or do you still deny those scriptures and still make keeping the 10 commandments impossible. For those scriptures do not say only some things are possible, it says all things will be possible for those who have the Holy Spirit in their life.
 
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