What was abolished?

[Hizikyah]

I will give my view here, so you may want to vote or make your statement before or after reading?

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I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only does the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

He abolished the hatred of the Law;

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Wrong question. Jesus said He came not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

 

[Hizikyah]

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 Torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

One that is a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of the Messiah, has the Law of Yahweh or more accurately the Torah/Instructions, written on their heart, how could one believe it shouldn't be followed, it shouldn't be read, or it applies no longer if they are truly a part of this covenant? I believe the only reason I love His instructions is because Yahweh has put this on my heart, years ago when I was lost I certainly did not enjoy His Instructions.

 

[KJV1611]

I will give my view here, so you may want to vote or make your statement before or after reading?

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I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only does the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

He abolished the hatred of the Law;

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Your not reading that right, even if you take out the italicized words."Having abolished in the flesh the enmity, the law of commandments in ordinances. No matter how you slice it, the law was the enmity and the wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Hizikyah]

Wrong question. Jesus said He came not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

So Eph 2 has no meaning? Or....

I have thread about fulfilling, heaven and earth passing and all things being perfect here: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/105680-done-away.html

Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Has heaven and earth passed away? I will give you a minute to look out your window.......

No? Still there? So according to HIM, not me, Him, nothing will pass from the Law. (the real Sacifice is complete, and the Pristhood has taken on it true form, as Yahshua is the High Priest now.)

When will heaven and earth pass? Does Scripture give us a hint? Thank Yah, it does;

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

"Unless heaven and earth passes away..the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

 

[JGIG]

Again, Hizikyah, you have posted a poll with a false premise.

The Law has not been abolished. It serves a purpose still, to bring people to Christ. The Law is good IF one uses it properly (1 Tim. 1).

Jesus said He did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it.

The results?

Those who are in Christ have died to the Law and for them, it IS, IN PRACTICAL EFFECT, abolished (see Rom. 7:4-6).

Once sin is washed away, the Law is done with us . . . it has led us to the Cross (Galatians 3) and there we become a New Creation! We are the very righteousness of God in Christ (2 Cor. 5:21)! We no longer have the same relationship with the Law as we did before the work of Christ in our lives!

Colossians 2:9-15
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority. 11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having >>> canceled G1813 – exaleiphō <<< the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.


Ephesians 2:14-16
14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having >>> abolished G2673 – katargeō <<< in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
​

The Law IS abolished for those IN CHRIST.

Christ IS the end of the Law for righteousness for all who believe (Romans 10:4)!

Oh My! I just checked this out . . . this is so cool . . . now it gets really interesting . . .

Romans 7:4-6
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been >>> delivered G2673 – katargeō <<< from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
​

G2673 – katargeō is translated as both ‘abolished’ in Eph. 2:15 and as ‘delivered’ in Rom. 7:6.
Here’s the definition:

G2673 – katargeō
1) to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative
​

a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency
b) to deprive of force, influence, power
​

2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish
​

a) to cease, to pass away, be done away
b) to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one
c) to terminate all intercourse with one
​

That’s talkin’ about the Law for those in Christ, folks!

The Law, for those in Christ, is these things:


​

➞ idle
➞ unemployed
➞ inactive (!!!)
➞ inoperative (!!!)
➞ to cause a person to have no further efficiency
➞ to deprive of force, influence, power (!!!)
➞ to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish (!!!)
➞ to cease, to pass away, be done away (!!!)
➞ to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one (!!!)
➞ to terminate all intercourse with one (!!!)
​

More here:

• Released/Delivered From the Law and Christ is the End of the Law – Getting Greeky About Romans 7, 10, and Ephesians 2
• Romans 7:1-6 and Spiritual Adultery

-JGIG

​

 

[Hizikyah]

Your not reading that right, even if you take out the italicized words."Having abolished in the flesh the enmity, the law of commandments in ordinances. No matter how you slice it, the law was the enmity and the wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles.

If one looks at the meaning of "enmity" which is opposition to, then I personally think it's pretty clear. And the next verse states, "having killed the enmity through Himself."

I guess if "do not kill, do not steal", etc is enmity then that would be true, but I don't personally see "do not kill, do not steal" as being enmity.

But hey everyone has their own views, that is why I did a poll, to see what people think about this topic.

 

[Hizikyah]

Christ IS the end of the Law for righteousness for all who believe (Romans 10:4)!

How did I make a poll with a false premise? If the law is abolished in those in Messiah, then choose abolished, and there is an "other" option if I did not give a choice one felt is sufficient...

I think your Romans 10:4 is broken

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

Those who are in Christ have died to the Law and for them, it IS, IN PRACTICAL EFFECT, abolished

And are you saying that once one is in Messiah "do not kill and do not steal etc no longer apply?"

So then nothing you could do would be a sin?

 

[KJV1611]

If one looks at the meaning of "enmity" which is opposition to, then I personally think it's pretty clear. And the next verse states, "having killed the enmity through Himself."

I guess if "do not kill, do not steal", etc is enmity then that would be true, but I don't personally see "do not kill, do not steal" as being enmity.

But hey everyone has their own views, that is why I did a poll, to see what people think about this topic.

The whole context of those verses is Jesus tearing down the wall between Jews and Gentiles so that they could become one new man... Right?

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

What separated Jews from Gentiles? It was not the Gentiles enmity of the law.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

So Eph 2 has no meaning? Or.... [etc., etc., etc.] ... and be their Father.

To avoid taking up space, I nonetheless quote what amounts to the entirety of your post, it is that empty of thought in relation to your own poll.. You ask about the Law, then attempt to connect the Law to the Creation and its destruction? Your own reply is off-topic to your thread.

 

[JGIG]

How did I make a poll with a false premise? If the law is abolished in those in Messiah, then choose abolished, and there is an "other" option if I did not give a choice one felt is sufficient...

Your poll didn't say the Law is abolished for those in Christ, did it.

Folks who preach Feast, day, and dietary law keeping like to try to make believers who rightly preach that we are no longer bound to those things seem like antinomians - no. The Law still stands - to lead people to Christ. Then it has nothing more to do with the believer in Christ (see Rom. 7:4-6, Gal. 2:19-21, Gal. 3).

I think your Romans 10:4 is broken

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

Let's look at the Romans 10 passage with a bit of context:

Romans 10:1-4
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of >>> God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, <<< have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the >>> end G5056 – telos <<< of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
​

First, to deal with Christ as the end of the Law:

G5056 – telos
1) end
a) termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)
b) the end
1) the last in any succession or series
2) eternal
c) that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue
d) the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
2) toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)​

End, in this case, simply means end.


​

End of the Law for those in Christ.

A simple translation for the linguist guys.

But the Hebrew Roots Movement has to take meaning ‘1d’ to try to force a meaning into the text. Even then, their attempt falls short, as the Law points to Christ:

>>>>>>>>>> . . . He . . . Christ . . . <<<<<<<<


​

. . . is the end (the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose) of the Law, not the Law is the end of Christ!

The Law points to Christ, Christ does not point to the Law!

For those in Christ, the Law is abolished, and those in Christ
are released from the Law, having died to it!
(Rom. 10:4, Rom. 7:1-6, Eph. 2, Col. 2)

​

The second point I wish to make here is that the righteousness that is in Christ – the righteousness we receive – is the very righteousness of God. God’s righteousness is the righteousness that is provided in Christ for all who believe! (Romans 5, 2 Corinthians 5)

The only ‘righteousness’ you could ever hope for through the Law is your own (‘and seeking to establish their own righteousness’, from Romans 10, above), and that would require your perfect obedience, all the time, zero mistakes, which is an impossibility.


God offers you HIS Righteousness!

In Christ!​

By Grace!​

Through Faith! (Ephesians 2)​

Why?

To demonstrate God’s Righteousness! \o/




​

And are you saying that once one is in Messiah "do not kill and do not steal etc no longer apply?"

So then nothing you could do would be a sin?

Right because someone who is walking in love is murdering, stealing, etc.

Don't be silly. That argument is sooooo lame.

I don't mean to be insulting, but come on, Hizikayah, you're just posting that kind of thing for shock value, as if those in Christ MUST look to the Law to know to not murder, steal, etc., as if the Living God inside of us is not a good enough teacher .

-JGIG

​

 

[Hizikyah]

To avoid taking up space, I nonetheless quote what amounts to the entirety of your post, it is that empty of thought in relation to your own poll.. You ask about the Law, then attempt to connect the Law to the Creation and its destruction? Your own reply is off-topic to your thread.

What?

Eph 2 says something was abolished, what was it, Im wrong for asking? This is crazy.

 

[Hizikyah]

Your poll didn't say the Law is abolished for those in Christ, did it.

There is a other option.

 

[Hizikyah]

Right because someone who is walking in love is murdering, stealing, etc.

Don't be silly. That argument is sooooo lame.

I don't mean to be insulting, but come on, Hizikayah, you're just posting that kind of thing for shock value, as if those in Christ MUST look to the Law to know to not murder, steal, etc., as if the Living God inside of us is not a good enough teacher .

-JGIG

​

I personally have NEVER met someone who followed what the Instructions say, that did not read them.

There are athesist that do not kill and are decently nice people, heck to be honest Ive met athesist that were more loving than some "believers" I have crossed paths with. So I woulnt not say yay or nay to that being a full understanding of ones fruits.

For the Law of Yah is very very loving to others, reeading it made me think about helping other in ways that I had never thought about before, and please do not say YOU READ IT IN THE FLESH IN THE FLESH!!! It is there for us to read and learn from... When I was taught the Law was non-binding I lived much different... lol IN THE FLESH IN THE FLESH!!!

Seems what Paul says is walking in the Spirit many here call in the flesh, ODD.

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Can you tell me what, "the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh" means?

(Law of Yahweh/Commandments of God) same same.

 

[JGIG]

I personally have NEVER met someone who followed what the Instructions say, that did not read them.

There are athesist that do not kill and are decently nice people, heck to be honest Ive met athesist that were more loving than some "believers" I have crossed paths with. So I woulnt not say yay or nay to that being a full understanding of ones fruits.

Yep. Mankind has a conscience. Even the atheist can spot love and walk in it. But if they do not believe on the One God has sent, they are still lost.

For the Law of Yah is very very loving to others, reeading it made me think about helping other in ways that I had never thought about before, and please do not say YOU READ IT IN THE FLESH IN THE FLESH!!! It is there for us to read and learn from... When I was taught the Law was non-binding I lived much different... lol IN THE FLESH IN THE FLESH!!!

Yep. All Scripture is useful for instruction. That does not mean that those in Christ are bound to the Law.

Seems what Paul says is walking in the Spirit many here call in the flesh, ODD.

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Can you tell me what, "the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh" means?

(Law of Yahweh/Commandments of God) same same.

Based on this powerful phrase in Galatians 5:18, your interpretation of Romans 8:5-8 (after ignoring Rom. 8:1) is flawed:

If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.​

-JGIG

 

[Hizikyah]

Yep. Mankind has a conscience. Even the atheist can spot love and walk in it. But if they do not believe on the One God has sent, they are still lost.



Yep. All Scripture is useful for instruction. That does not mean that those in Christ are bound to the Law.



Based on this powerful phrase in Galatians 5:18, your interpretation of Romans 8:5-8 (after ignoring Rom. 8:1) is flawed:

If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.​

-JGIG

So does that verse in Galatians cancel out what is written in Romans or?

and this being the final Message written to mankind, what does this passage mean?

Please explain it to me? Verse by verse if you would?

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

King James Bible
Revelation 22:12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

What?

Eph 2 says something was abolished, what was it, Im wrong for asking? This is crazy.

In verse 15, it speaks not of "abolishing" but of rendering inoperative. The Greek is καταργέω and it literally means "unemployed." If you're going to preach, know what you're talking about. It in fact says nothing about that being past tense as you imply, but it is an ongoing process of rendering the Law "unemployed" -- idle, inactive -- but ...

Only in the life of the believer. For the lost, it is still very actively employed and serves as their measuring rod of judgment to come.

 

[psychomom]

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Hi there, Hizikyah.

maybe this is just me...but don't you see...those words, they're a description of all of us.

each of us is, to some level, guilty of those things...
and without the Righteousness of Christ, we, too, would be outside the gates.

this is trying to tell us no one gets in without faith in God's Promise.
no one can be considered innocent of everything in that list....but the Lord Jesus.

does that help, or make sense at all?

 

[Hizikyah]

In verse 15, it speaks not of "abolishing" but of rendering inoperative. The Greek is καταργέω and it literally means "unemployed." If you're going to preach, know what you're talking about. It in fact says nothing about that being past tense as you imply, but it is an ongoing process of rendering the Law "unemployed" -- idle, inactive -- but ...

Only in the life of the believer. For the lost, it is still very actively employed and serves as their measuring rod of judgment to come.

So im just trying to understand the effect thereof, If the Laws are "rendered inoperative" to the body of Messiah is it counted as a sin if a follower does happen to sin?

 

[Hizikyah]

Hi there, Hizikyah.

maybe this is just me...but don't you see...those words, they're a description of all of us.

each of us is, to some level, guilty of those things...
and without the Righteousness of Christ, we, too, would be outside the gates.

this is trying to tell us no one gets in without faith in God's Promise.
no one can be considered innocent of everything in that list....but the Lord Jesus.

does that help, or make sense at all?

It definitely makes sense that we all have done things on that list , but it is clear in stating, "For outside are" taking about not in the kingdom... Now no man will enter in on his own merits that is why Messiah said:

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

With that said, and no intention of argue or debate, but for the intention of reading what is written for us from our Savior, that assessment ignores the majority of what is written there, not trying to be rude , but is that not true?