Can a Christian lose their salvation? Unsure.

Butch5 · Jan 13, 2015

Origen shows the early church position.

8. Let us begin, then, with what is said about Pharaoh—that he was hardened by God, that he might not send away the people; along with which will be examined also the statement of the apostle, “Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth.” And certain of those who hold different opinions misuse these passages, themselves also almost destroying free-will by introducing ruined natures incapable of salvation, and others saved which it is impossible can be lost; and Pharaoh, they say, as being of a ruined nature, is therefore hardened by God, who has mercy upon the spiritual, but hardens the earthly.
Early Church Fathers - – Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Writings of the Fathers Down To A.D. 325.

Butch5 · Jan 13, 2015

crossnote said:

According to Peter it is one's old sins that are forgiven.

8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. (2Pe 1:8-9 NKJ)

John said,

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1Jo 1:9 NKJ)

John says if they are confessed He is faithful to forgiven, that's future.

kaylagrl · Jan 13, 2015

seed_time_harvest said:

Thank you,they come to me every once in a while.lol

kennethcadwell · Jan 13, 2015

crossnote said:

Only if you do your part to first believe (John 3:16), then from belief repent of your sins and be baptized (Luke 13:3, Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38 ) and from there continue to confess your future sins ( 1 John 1:9,2:1), are you given remission for them..............This is the only way to have your sins covered by His blood, giving you remission of them.

Then the Lord also gave another condition and that is to forgive others, or your sins will not be forgiven.
( Matthew 6:14-15, Colossians 3:13, Ephesians 4:32 )

Without that remission of sins you remain in an impure state, or enmity to God because of your sins, and will not be given eternal life......

Ephesians 5:5
For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Kerry · Jan 13, 2015

YES, a Christian can lose there salvation, it is a difficult thing to do, however it is possible. Now OSAS people will say that you were never saved to begin with. That is a lie, have to be blunt but it is the truth.
For example you trust in God, then turn your back and say there is no God as many atheist have done, they were once christians and touched by God, but the cares of this world turned them away. To say they were not saved demeans the cross and the blood of the lamb. It is a two way street. You believe and He proves.

In the NT it say's over and over that he who endures and he who abideth, same thing. You cannot be saved and be a habitual sinner. Yes we sin and the Holy Spirit brings it to our attention, however if we ignore His promptings and continue in the sin, we risk our salvation. I said, it is difficult but possible, for these shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, murders, thefts, adulteries, drunkards ( which includes drugs), back biters, sorcerers (which is a drug dealer) and so on.

Can Christ set you free of course He can, if you will accept it.

I once heard it said that no matter what you do, if you are in the boat with Jesus, then your in the boat, but, you can jump out that boat if you want to.

RickyZ · Jan 13, 2015

kaylagrl said:

Good post. I was actually thinking about this after reading crossnote's post. "Lose" is the wrong word. "Reject" is more appropriate. Can you lose salvation? No. Can you reject it? Absolutely.

And to those who say this puts salvation into man's hands not Gods... well duh. It has always been in man's hands. It is up to a man to accept it, it is up to a man to reject it. Salvation is not a jail, and God will not force it upon anyone who doesn't want it.

Kerry · Jan 13, 2015

RickyZ said:

I would say that reject is a better word, although as difficult as it is, it is possible for one to reject. Where are you crossnote, have I offended you that you will noy correspond with me?

RickyZ · Jan 14, 2015

SeaBass said:

Acts 1:25; Acts 8:13,-24; 2 Pet 1:10; 2 Pet 2:1,21,22; Heb 3:12; Heb 6:4-6; 1 Tim 4:1; 1 Tim 5:12: James 5:19, etc., among many, many more verses that all show salvation is conditional.

Some things to look for:

There are two sides to salvation,

1) God's faithfulness to man
2) man's faithfulness to God

Those that deny salvation is conditional will sometimes take out of context verses that speak about God's faithfulness to man while ignoring verses that speak about men being faithful to God, examples Jn 10:28 ignoring verse 27 and Phil 1:6 ignoring verse 5. No verse says God will continue to be faithful and save those that become unfaithful to Him nor does say verse say God has an obligation to save those that become unfaithful to Him. Some, as Charles Stanley, will say a man can lose his faith entirely and still be saved, a Christian can live in sin, committing every sin over and over and still be saved...(which is actually true if Eternal Security were true). But too many bible verses speak to the fact one will be lost without faith and those that commit various sins of the flesh will be lost, Gal 5:19-21; 1 Cor 6:9,10.

2) the conditional word "IF" often gets ignored by those that deny salvation is conditional, 1 Jn 1:6,7,9; 1 Jn 2:3,24; 2 Pet 1:8; Col 1:23; etc.

3) the logic behind the words "fell" or "fall" gets ignored oftentimes. For you to fall out of a tree you must first climb up that tree and be in that tree to logically fall from that tree. The bible speaks of those that fell away or were fallen, Gal 5:4.
One who was always fallen cannot fall for he was never in a saved position to fall from. So logically for you to fall from a tree you must first be up in that tree then logically for you to fall you must first be in a saved position to fall from. Logically one cannot fall from God's grace unless he was first in God's grace.

4) the excuse is offered by those that deny salvation can be lost is if one quits believing or commits sin then he was never really saved to begin with. If Judas or Simon (Ats 8) sinning proves they were never "really" saved to begin with, then what Christian is ever "really" saved to begin with since all Christians do sin sometimes?
If I went from the first grade to 11th grade but quit before the 12th grade, does my quitting before the 12th grade mean I was never "really" was a student, never "really" took classes, never "really" got any grades? No, for one can believe most of his life and become unfaithful at the end and be lost, Rev 2:10, not overcome, Rev 2:26.

5) those that deny salvation is conditional will sometimes claim only "rewards" are lost when the context is not talking about rewards at all but eternal salvation. The idea of losing rewards is forced into the text to protect their man-made teaching. Sometimes they may even try and change the meaning of 'saved' to run around verses that say salvation can be lost.

6) those that deny salvation is conditional will take a verse as Mt 1:21 and assume the word "unconditional" into it, that Jesus will save people unconditionally. One must consider all the counsel of God to see if Christ saves people unconditional and from verses as Jn 8:24; Lk 13:3,5; Mt 10:32,33, and Mk 16:16 Christ made salvation CONDITIONAL upon one believing, repenting, confessing and being baptized.

I would add under point 3 Rev 5:3. Your name can't be blotted out of the book of life unless it was first written therein.

RickyZ · Jan 14, 2015

notuptome said:

No shortage of controversy on this subject. If as scripture states we are saved by grace and not works then we must ask who is in charge of grace? Does man have any authority over Gods grace?

Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for hindering those who wanted to seek the Lord. Are these any better who would deny grace and substitute works? Luke 11:52

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, Roger, man has the authority to accept or reject it.

RickyZ · Jan 14, 2015

psychomom said:

And honestly, unless at some point you feel like getting on your knees and saying Lord I reject You, it's a moot point.

RickyZ · Jan 14, 2015

Butch5 said:

Context. One of the reasons there are so many false doctrines in the church is because of this randomly applying Scripture indiscriminately. Take this passage for instance, it was written to the church in Corinth, does it apply to all churches and all Christians?

NKJ 1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.
2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal? (1Co 3:1-4 NKJ)

This was written to Christians, does to apply to all Christians? Obviously not. Christians would say oh no that was written to that church, why? Because it's negative, yet if something is positive they want to apply it to all Christians. We have to remember we are reading history. If we read an American history book we wouldn't apply everything in it to ourselves just because we are American. Suppose the book said that all of the Americans had muskets, would we assume that every American living in 2015 has a musket? No, we wouldn't, we would understand that in the time it was speaking of. Well, some things in the Scriptures are the same way.

Here's were Christians get inconsistent. There are few denominations that still wear a head covering. Many argue (wrongly), oh, that was just something from that culture. Well, if it was written to Christians and everything written to Christians applies to us, why aren't women wearing the head covering? You see, we can't simply pick and choose, yet we do and that is one of the reasons there are so many denominations and erroneous doctrines in the faith

If you are behaving as the Corinthians did, then yes of course this applies to you.

RickyZ · Jan 14, 2015

Butch5 said:

But there are others who continue it who need our support just as much as he did.

RickyZ · Jan 14, 2015

RickyZ said:

Which brings us to what we really need to see here and with all scripture - BIG PICTURE people, BIG PICTURE. NO we can't contribute to Paul's ministry. But the big picture behind Paul's thanking that support is KEEP SUPPORTING MINISTRY. That's what you need to take from that verse, Butch5. And all verses. ALL scripture applies to ALL of us!!! Those who think not need to stop pigeon-holing verses and take in the BIG PICTURE!

NO scripture should EVER be read without the context of HOW DOES THIS APPLY TO ME.

crossnote · Jan 14, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Complete Roman theology. A receipe for never having assurance, never knowing if one's repentance was sincere enough, never sure if one has confessed all their sins thoroughly enough, never assured if one's believing is pure enough. No wonder Rome made a mint on the poor peasants, keeping them in that bondage of a self examination 'salvation'.
Funny, you do not point the Christian to faith in the Crucified Christ and His Righteousnness, as well as the risen Christ who is at the right hand of the Father interceeding for us or His Spirit who dwells in us working His will both to will and do His good pleasure; or how He chastises those dear children of His whom He loves for their sanctification.
But nope, everything is laid on the saint, heavy burdens, self sacrifices in order to merit forgiveness and all without assurance. You have set up a system of works as a crypto Romanist would.

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Tit 3:5-7 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (6) Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; (7) That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Perhaps you have yet to be justified on account of Christ alone, but are rather adding your own righteousness as well.

PWE · Jan 14, 2015

crossnote said:

Romans 5:9 tells us by what we are saved:

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The next chapter tells how to be set free from sin so that we are NOW free:

Romans Chapter 6:3-9; 16-18; 22-23

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he who has died has been freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? [SUP]17 [/SUP]But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But NOW having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. [SUP]23 [/SUP]For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

notuptome · Jan 14, 2015

RickyZ said:

Once accepted it cannot be rejected.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

john832 · Jan 14, 2015

notuptome said:

How does one fall away then?

newbirth · Jan 14, 2015

notuptome said:

scripture says it can be.....

Hebrews 10:28-30King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

[SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people

forsha · Jan 14, 2015

DiscipleDave said:

The kingdom of heaven is one of the many names of the church that Jesus set up while he was here on earth. Kingdom of God, The new Jerusalem, The church of the first born, little flock, the few, etc. All of the sins you have mentioned will keep you out of the church, but not out of eternal heaven for all of those that God gave to Jesus to wash them clean of all of their sins from the beginning of time until the end of time.

forsha · Jan 14, 2015

DiscipleDave said:

So what you are saying. Is that Saved can mean eternal deliverance, or sin paid for, or entrance to Heaven, or can mean just plain being saved from a bad situation.

So are you saying that all the verses that teach he that endures to the end you are choosing to pick (Not eternal deliverance) (Not sin paid for) (Not entrance to Heaven) but you are choosing to believe they mean (just being saved from a bad situation?

So tell me, if Saved can mean any one of those things you mentioned above, why do you choose to believe it is just from a bad situation. If i believe saved in those verses means eternal deliverance, which you testify "saved" can indeed mean that. that how can you say i am incorrect? my point is if you say saved can mean any one of those four things, why do you choose to believe saved to mean the last thing you mentioned? tell me why it can't mean any one of the first things you mentioned.

^i^

I agree with Wattie, you need to separate your salvation scriptures.

Can a Christian lose their salvation? Unsure.

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