Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

[peacefulbeliever]

You are ignoring what the text is actually saying, though. You seem to falsely believe that 1 John 1:9 is talking about a walk when no such indication is given to us that this is so. Please explain to me slowly how "cleanse us from all unrighteousness" in relation to confession is about one's walk and not about cleanse us from all unrighteousness or sin. Please take note that John defines the word "unrighteousness" in 1 John 1:9 as "sin" in 1 John 5:17. He says all unrighteousness is sin.

Why are you ignoring these verses? If you are not ignoring them, please explain it to me.

Read slowly and with comprehension: If we say that we have fellowship with him and W. .A . .L . .K in darkness, we lie and do not the truth: but if we W..A..L..K in the light, as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin. . . That is a W..A..L..K - our W..A..L..K is a learning and growing process. . . we will cause a break in fellowship . . . we will sin . . . and if we say we have no sin then we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us . . . In and during this W..A..L..K, do I lose my "position" in the household of God as a daughter?

As for your reference to how you are sold under sin in Romans 7:14. You are referencing when Paul was talking about his personal experience as a Jew who kept the Law before he was a Christian in Romans 7. But true Christians are free from the Law of sin and death.

Romans 8:2
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

In other words, how can you be sold under sin if you are free from the law of sin and death? You are either free or not free. Read Romans 6. It talks about how shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul says God forbid.

Look, carnal, what the scripture refers to as flesh, old man nature, outward man - is corrupt according to deceitful lust [Eph. 4:22]. The "flesh", what the scripture refers to as flesh, old man nature, outward man, the carnal mind is contrary to the "Spirit", i.e. the new man, the new nature which is born within us. This flesh, old man nature, outward man, the carnal mind does not automatically change when we become born again. Man is inclined to evil because of Adam so that the flesh lusteth always contrary to the Spirit - this old man nature remains even in them that are regenerated. That is why we must be transformed with the renewing of our minds - it is a spiritual battle - a battle that involves W..A..L..K..I..N..G by the Spirit and not by the flesh. Our growth to maturity is a process. I am born again, indwelt by the holy Spirit, given a new Spirit but I have to renew my mind, I have to put off the old man with his deceitful lust - that is why I say I am carnal because I still reside in this body of flesh that is contrary to my spirit. Paul also say - Moreover the law entered, that theoffence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound

As for your reference to the new man being just the spiritual: Romans 12:1 says offer your bodies as a willing sacrifice unto God. Verse 2 says be not conformed to this world (Which is physical), but ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is good and acceptable and perfect concerning the will of God. For Paul says we are to present three things blameless until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The body, the soul, and the spirit.

And who is it that sanctifies us wholly? [1 Thess. 5:23]

As for your reference to me not knowing what it means to be born again: Well, I am afraid you do not understand what born again means if there is no actual change. Caterpillars turn into butterflies. This is a change. In a manner of speaking, they are born again in being a new type of creature that can fly. They are different. Born again figuratively speaking thru the process of metamorphasis. The butterfly is different than the caterpillar. It is new. A person who is born again is the same way. They are not born again if they are not changed or new in any way. They are still the old man if they are living like their old self in sin.

You don't understand born as in born into a family. You don't understand the relationship between a father and his child.

There is a change - we are now partakers of the divine nature and that is inside us but we still walk in this body of flesh that is contrary to that divine nature within us. You have NO grace towards others in you . . . a person battles daily with this struggle against their old man nature and that divine nature - the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit lusteth against the flesh, so that you cannot do what you want - they don't want to follow the flesh but sometimes the flesh wins out - you automatically condemn them and say they can't be born again . . . AND that is not true for someone who is really trying - thank God that he looks upon the heart of a person and not the flesh. Thank God for his abundant mercy and grace.

As for your analogy about crossing over the white line: Well, sometimes when you do this, you can hit another car and cause a traffic pile up. One such traffic accident happened really bad not too long ago (on a highway that I drive on) and one of the cars flipped and exploded. Such an accident could be caused by crossing over the white line a little. All it takes is one person not driving right and then people are dying. Granted, if God knows you are struggling with sin and you want to forsake it, and you are sorrowful towards the Lord by confessing it, then that is different. One wants to change and be the new man. But if a person just like doesn't care whether they sin or not, then there is a huge problem. God does not take sin lightly. God is not a respecter of persons just because you have a belief in Him. Sin will still destroy anyone's soul if they do not repent.

As for your reference to being out of fellowship with God with the thinking you are saved: Again, Scripture refutes such thinking. Please read 1 John 5:12, John 17:3, and Romans 8:9.

I guess I was traveling on the highway alone because my W..A..L..K with God is a personal one.

Read 2 Corinthians 5:19-21 and see how God sees us. Actually you should get your mind off sin and look at people through God's eyes.

 

[BradC]

I started to read the first few lines and just stopped. You said that I can receive grace within my sin and depravity. It's sick. Meaning, you don't think I have to change or repent even though Jesus said "repent, or you will all likewise perish." Jesus told the woman who was caught in the act of adultery that he did not condemn her, but then he told her to sin no more. Yet, there are many OSAS proponents who ignore these words and they sin as if there is no tomorrow thinking they are saved (When they are not).

The reality of Matthew 7 is even more clear to me now, more than ever.

We receive grace in the midst of our sin so that we don't continue in it. When sin abounds grace does much more abound so that we do not continue in sin. The grace of God is the only measure we receive from God that can turn us from sin. We can not turn from sin on our own without the grace of God providing what we need. The goodness of God leads the sinner to repentance, not legalism or some confession of the flesh that does not have or acknowledge the grace of God. The woman caught in adultery was not condemned by our Lord Jesus Christ and that was the measure of grace she received to go and sin no more. Jesus actually gave her an abundance of grace by sending her accusers out of the temple through conviction of their own sin, by not condemning her and by sending her away in the power of that grace. I see no confession in that story but I do see her responding to the Saviour and to the goodness of his super abundant grace.

 

[gb9]

First, I have talked with many who think they can live like the devil and still be saved (even in this forum). So you do not have all the facts. Second, a person who thinks they can focus on doing good things for God's kingdom and yet keep their pet sins and or enjoy moments of sinful living for a while are deceiving themselves. Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. God and sin are two different masters. God is rigteousness; And sin is of the devil. If you do evil at any point in your life and you are not concerned about it because you think it is forgiven, then that can lead a person down the path of unrighteousness and not righteousness. Choose this day whom ye will serve.[/QU

a question for you Jason: a while back I was shopping and had got more things than I intended. I put the things I had in my hands down to rearrange and carry easier. while doing so I stuck a can of cat food into my coat pocket for about 15 seconds while I was doing so. I took it out of my pocket, went up front and paid for everything. so if YOU would have saw me put the can in my pocket, you would have labeled me a theif, right??

 

[newbirth]

Read slowly and with comprehension: If we say that we have fellowship with him and W. .A . .L . .K in darkness, we lie and do not the truth: but if we W..A..L..K in the light, as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin. . . That is a W..A..L..K - our W..A..L..K is a learning and growing process. . . we will cause a break in fellowship . . . we will sin . . . and if we say we have no sin then we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us . . . In and during this W..A..L..K, do I lose my "position" in the household of God as a daughter?

Look, carnal, what the scripture refers to as flesh, old man nature, outward man - is corrupt according to deceitful lust [Eph. 4:22]. The "flesh", what the scripture refers to as flesh, old man nature, outward man, the carnal mind is contrary to the "Spirit", i.e. the new man, the new nature which is born within us. This flesh, old man nature, outward man, the carnal mind does not automatically change when we become born again. Man is inclined to evil because of Adam so that the flesh lusteth always contrary to the Spirit - this old man nature remains even in them that are regenerated. That is why we must be transformed with the renewing of our minds - it is a spiritual battle - a battle that involves W..A..L..K..I..N..G by the Spirit and not by the flesh. Our growth to maturity is a process. I am born again, indwelt by the holy Spirit, given a new Spirit but I have to renew my mind, I have to put off the old man with his deceitful lust - that is why I say I am carnal because I still reside in this body of flesh that is contrary to my spirit. Paul also say - Moreover the law entered, that theoffence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound

And who is it that sanctifies us wholly? [1 Thess. 5:23]

You don't understand born as in born into a family. You don't understand the relationship between a father and his child.

There is a change - we are now partakers of the divine nature and that is inside us but we still walk in this body of flesh that is contrary to that divine nature within us. You have NO grace towards others in you . . . a person battles daily with this struggle against their old man nature and that divine nature - the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit lusteth against the flesh, so that you cannot do what you want - they don't want to follow the flesh but sometimes the flesh wins out - you automatically condemn them and say they can't be born again . . . AND that is not true for someone who is really trying - thank God that he looks upon the heart of a person and not the flesh. Thank God for his abundant mercy and grace.

I guess I was traveling on the highway alone because my W..A..L..K with God is a personal one.

Read 2 Corinthians 5:19-21 and see how God sees us. Actually you should get your mind off sin and look at people through God's eyes.

I am sorry but the scripture does not say learn to walk....and if someone has to learn to walk it does not take a lifetime...if one is walking in the spirit he will not fulfil the lust of the flesh....no if buts or maybe....one sin when he is drawn away from Christ by his own lust....if you are drawn away from Christ you are not in him....one cannot be two places at the same time....it is either you are in Christ or in sin....if you die in sin you cannot be saved...your body is the temple of the HS and if you cannot keep the temple holy how can you expect to be counted worthy of the spirit??? if God gave us power over sin and we are continually struggling with sin then we are having problems using this power...Scripture says mortify the deeds of the flesh...if sin shall have no dominion over you and you still struggle with sin ..it means you are submitting to sin...simple...

 

[notuptome]

I do not live in urepentant sin, unlike the OSAS proponent. They think they can sin and still be saved. This is evil and wrong and you know it. Oh, and yes. I do have Biblical authority to judge evil behavior. Paul says, do not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness (i.e. sin) but rather reprove them. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, correction, and for instruction in righteousness. If you and or others condone sin, I have a right to judge you for falsely thinking that way. I am not judging you for sin that you confessed and forsaken. I am not judging you for a sin that you are striving to overcome thru confession and with the help of God's people. I am judging your false unbiblcal belief that you can sin and still be saved.

First you know that you are going to sin. We have an advocate with the Father that when we sin He will intercede for us. Christ ministers our salvation and He is able to keep us saved no matter what.

You accuse these straw men of sinning with impunity. This is wrong thinking. Those who are Gods will be chastened when they sin. Their eternal life is not lost but they will bear in their bodies the cost of sin.

While I'm not impressed with your attitude toward others I do not know what is going on in your life. God does and it is He who will minister to you. You need to remember that pride goeth before the fall. Poor application of biblical principals does not assure a good outcome.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

I am not taking out our cancelling out anyone BUT someone, anyone cannot be born again of the Spirit unless it was available. The new birth, Christ in you the hope of glory, began on Pentecost.

Yep, all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction [2 Timothy 3:16] and whatsoever things written aforetime were written for our learning [Romans 15:4].
We know this because most to all of those teachings was given to the Apostles, which He then commissioned to go out and teach the rest of us to obey all that He taught them. Those who teach His words were only for Israel, or those before Pentecost teach falsely. For even after Pentecost the Apostles still carried out those same teachings, they did not do away with them !!!

Where do you think all the confusion comes from? The OT says one thing - the gospels say another - then the Epistles say something else - throw that all together and that is why there is no like-mindedness in believers. I am not saying ANY of God's word should be thrown away, discarded for all of it was written for our learning. There are three classifications of people - Jew, Gentile and church of God.

Only in this dispensation do we have the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us via the gift of holy Spirit - we are born again of God's Spirit - that is a big difference. There is a difference between Spirit being upon you or with you then being IN you.
[/QUOTE]


No, no, no......
The gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John do not say something different then the rest of the books of the NT.
That is why you are confused, because that is what you believe. This however is not truth, as I have tried to show you over and over again. The epistles from Paul, Peter, James, and John all confirm what the Lord taught; meaning taught the same thing. Even in Acts the Apostles still carried out the Lords teachings.
All Paul did in his epistles was give more meat of the word, not a different teaching.
Those who were taught falsely, are unlearned, and unstable as the bible states are the ones who believe that the Apostle Paul taught a different teaching/gospel message then what the Lord taught....Paul did no such thing !!!

That scripture you gave in 1 Timothy is not saying saying all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, and correction is not saying use scripture against scripture.

What it is saying is that if you see a fellow brother or sister walking contrary to the way the Lord said to walk, we are to use the scriptures to show them proper doctrine, reproof them for the wrong way they are walking, and then correct them with the scriptures.
The Holy Spirit is not going to be given to just anybody as the scripture says in Acts, as it says given by God to those who obey. What part are we to obey ? The gospel teachings that the Lord gave in 4 gospel books !!!

 

[kennethcadwell]

So what? Who named them?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Man who was inspired by God named them, so you can say God directly named them.

 

[notuptome]

5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Well you might want to notice that is the destruction of his flesh not the destruction of his soul. Important distinction to make in this matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[newbirth]

First you know that you are going to sin. We have an advocate with the Father that when we sin He will intercede for us. Christ ministers our salvation and He is able to keep us saved no matter what.

You accuse these straw men of sinning with impunity. This is wrong thinking. Those who are Gods will be chastened when they sin. Their eternal life is not lost but they will bear in their bodies the cost of sin.

While I'm not impressed with your attitude toward others I do not know what is going on in your life. God does and it is He who will minister to you. You need to remember that pride goeth before the fall. Poor application of biblical principals does not assure a good outcome.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

if you say you know you are going to sin....then you are wilfully disobeying the teachings of the scripture that says ...sin not...so you deliberately sin and then go look for the advocate?that is not right....seems like wilful sin to me... God hates sin...you should too

 

[BradC]

so what you are saying is one can sin and simply acknowledge the sin and humble them self and all is well....sin is gone ...let me get this straight ....a christian fornicates...he simply has to say is .... Jesus you know I fornicated.... but that's cool you know I trust in the cross and that sin is judged already...so we good...just pour on some grace....I have confidence in you...you restore my soul.....you know the flesh is weak ...so I may be back tomorrow...I may fornicate again or steal....maybe even kill...just giving you a heads up...so you can keep the grace coming...

You have a frame of reference that comes to the above understanding because of how you see the grace of God. Have you ever considered that when God chastens a son that it is one of the many sides of God's grace? Chastening is not a form of punishment that we deserve, it is a form of grace that is administered by God to turn us from the way we were going and restore us that we might yield a peaceable fruit of righteousness. God is more concerned about the way we are going then with the sin we might commit or OMIT along the way. If we make a provision for the flesh it only ends up in some form of corruption and death that we reap in this life.

If we continue to sin and do not respond to God's chastening then we face the possibility of being scourged (a close call with death) and if we ignore that scourge and do not turn back, we then can end up reaping the sin unto physical death and suffer the loss of all rewards (God forbid). God is just and the justifier of those whom He has justified. The issues of life and death belong to God and shall not the judge of all he earth do right? Wisdom is justified of its children and if God decides to deal with one child in one manner and another in a different manner, that is God's call even though we may think it unfair or unjust. If He disciplines one and gives grace to another without discipline, that is up to Him and He is no respecter of persons. Think about it.

 

[newbirth]

Well you might want to notice that is the destruction of his flesh not the destruction of his soul. Important distinction to make in this matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

duly noted....does that mean that sin only affects the flesh??? since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God....then why destroy the flesh??? Paul made no mention of soul because man is a living soul...flesh and blood....that the spirit may be saved...the spirit we now have belongs to God.....and our body is the temple of God....some people discard the body as junk...if there is a resurrection this body must also be presented before God as perfect...so when it dies God raises it up in newness as he did Christ...and men could not tell the difference....he could touch eat sleep ...in that resurrected body.....

 

[newbirth]

You have a frame of reference that comes to the above understanding because of how you see the grace of God. Have you ever considered that when God chastens a son that it is one of the many sides of God's grace? Chastening is not a form of punishment that we deserve, it is a form of grace that is administered by God to turn us from the way we were going and restore us that we might yield a peaceable fruit of righteousness. God is more concerned about the way we are going then with the sin we might commit or OMIT along the way. If we make a provision for the flesh it only ends up in some form of corruption and death that we reap in this life.

If we continue to sin and do not respond to God's chastening then we face the possibility of being scourged (a close call with death) and if we ignore that scourge and do not turn back, we then can end up reaping the sin unto physical death and suffer the loss of all rewards (God forbid). God is just and the justifier of those whom He has justified. The issues of life and death belong to God and shall not the judge of all he earth do right? Wisdom is justified of its children and if God decides to deal with one child in one manner and another in a different manner, that is God's call even though we may think it unfair or unjust. If He disciplines one and gives grace to another without discipline, that is up to Him and He is no respecter of persons. Think about it.

it seems to me all you are doing is justifying sin...you are saying it is ok to sin you will not surly die....now where did I hear that before?....when you sin and you are being chastised you are not in Christ...else you would not have to turn back...so you think you can be outside Christ and still have eternal life....eternal life is in Christ...

 

[BradC]

it seems to me all you are doing is justifying sin...you are saying it is ok to sin you will not surly die....now where did I hear that before?....when you sin and you are being chastised you are not in Christ...else you would not have to turn back...so you think you can be outside Christ and still have eternal life....eternal life is in Christ...

I have never said any such thing about sin being okay, your frame of reference has lead you to believe that and that is wrong. Peacefulbeliever has communicated in an excellent way about the chastening of the Lord and it is concerning sons and not bastards as it says in (Heb 12:6-8). How any child of God can contribute chastening to those who are not in Christ is a grave error and one that is without understanding and conviction from the Holy Spirit. You and others are in trouble with how you understand the scriptures that were inspired of the Spirit. You are in error about many things.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

No, no, no......
The gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John do not say something different then the rest of the books of the NT.
That is why you are confused, because that is what you believe. This however is not truth, as I have tried to show you over and over again. The epistles from Paul, Peter, James, and John all confirm what the Lord taught; meaning taught the same thing. Even in Acts the Apostles still carried out the Lords teachings.
All Paul did in his epistles was give more meat of the word, not a different teaching.
Those who were taught falsely, are unlearned, and unstable as the bible states are the ones who believe that the Apostle Paul taught a different teaching/gospel message then what the Lord taught....Paul did no such thing !!!

That scripture you gave in 1 Timothy is not saying saying all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof, and correction is not saying use scripture against scripture.

What it is saying is that if you see a fellow brother or sister walking contrary to the way the Lord said to walk, we are to use the scriptures to show them proper doctrine, reproof them for the wrong way they are walking, and then correct them with the scriptures.
The Holy Spirit is not going to be given to just anybody as the scripture says in Acts, as it says given by God to those who obey. What part are we to obey ? The gospel teachings that the Lord gave in 4 gospel books !!!

Different dispensations, different people. Yes, things from the OT and the gospels are carried over to the epistles. You don't "hear" nor understand what I am saying.

I also didn't say use scripture against scripture - that is what happens in all these post though. We show people proper doctrine, we reprove and correct with love and grace towards our brothers and sisters.

I have never said that the Holy Spirit is given to anybody but anybody who has faith in Jesus Christ is born again - and are born of the Spirit. Now go and study what "born" and "born again" mean - it's much deeper than what you are believing else you would know that a believer's position in the household of God cannot be taken away from him - it is given to him by birth.

 

[Jason0047]

Read slowly and with comprehension: If we say that we have fellowship with him and W. .A . .L . .K in darkness, we lie and do not the truth: but if we W..A..L..K in the light, as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin. . . That is a W..A..L..K - our W..A..L..K is a learning and growing process. . . we will cause a break in fellowship . . . we will sin . . . and if we say we have no sin then we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us . . . In and during this W..A..L..K, do I lose my "position" in the household of God as a daughter?

Look, carnal, what the scripture refers to as flesh, old man nature, outward man - is corrupt according to deceitful lust [Eph. 4:22]. The "flesh", what the scripture refers to as flesh, old man nature, outward man, the carnal mind is contrary to the "Spirit", i.e. the new man, the new nature which is born within us. This flesh, old man nature, outward man, the carnal mind does not automatically change when we become born again. Man is inclined to evil because of Adam so that the flesh lusteth always contrary to the Spirit - this old man nature remains even in them that are regenerated. That is why we must be transformed with the renewing of our minds - it is a spiritual battle - a battle that involves W..A..L..K..I..N..G by the Spirit and not by the flesh. Our growth to maturity is a process. I am born again, indwelt by the holy Spirit, given a new Spirit but I have to renew my mind, I have to put off the old man with his deceitful lust - that is why I say I am carnal because I still reside in this body of flesh that is contrary to my spirit. Paul also say - Moreover the law entered, that theoffence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound

And who is it that sanctifies us wholly? [1 Thess. 5:23]

You don't understand born as in born into a family. You don't understand the relationship between a father and his child.

There is a change - we are now partakers of the divine nature and that is inside us but we still walk in this body of flesh that is contrary to that divine nature within us. You have NO grace towards others in you . . . a person battles daily with this struggle against their old man nature and that divine nature - the flesh lusteth against the Spirit and the Spirit lusteth against the flesh, so that you cannot do what you want - they don't want to follow the flesh but sometimes the flesh wins out - you automatically condemn them and say they can't be born again . . . AND that is not true for someone who is really trying - thank God that he looks upon the heart of a person and not the flesh. Thank God for his abundant mercy and grace.

I guess I was traveling on the highway alone because my W..A..L..K with God is a personal one.

Read 2 Corinthians 5:19-21 and see how God sees us. Actually you should get your mind off sin and look at people through God's eyes.

You are just not looking at all of what the text is saying. 1 John 1:6 says that the blood of Jesus CLEANSES US OF ALL SIN by walking in the Light as He is in the Light. In other words, the walk is tied to one's salvation. For how can you be saved and NOT be cleansed of all sin by Christ's blood?

This being CLEANSED of sin can be seen in 1 John 1:9 as I had pointed out before. 1 John 1:9 says IF we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9 says we are forgiven of our sins thru confession and cleansed of all unrighteoused. There is that word again. CLEANSED. Cleansed of what? Sin. For all unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17). So it has nothing to do with some sin and still be saved type OSAS walk but it has to do with a real walk with God whereby they walk in the Light in the Light as He is in the Light (So as to be CLEANSED of all sin) and whereby they confess of their sin so as to be CLEANSED of all unrighteousness.

As for looking thru God's eyes: He does not condone sin and or approve of His people in doing evil. God is Holy and is incapable of sinning. God will not allow you to evil under any circumstance. If you believe that, then you be destroyed after the Judgment for being wicked instead of loving God (Like you are supposed to do). For ignoring the problem of your sin and acting like it is not there is not going to make it go away. You have to confess your sin so as to be cleansed as 1 John 1:9 says. You have to walk in the Light as He is in the Light in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse you of all sin. No walking in the Light and no cleansing of your sin. If your sin is not cleansed, then that means it is going to be a stain on your record still.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Different dispensations, different people. Yes, things from the OT and the gospels are carried over to the epistles. You don't "hear" nor understand what I am saying.

I also didn't say use scripture against scripture - that is what happens in all these post though. We show people proper doctrine, we reprove and correct with love and grace towards our brothers and sisters.

I have never said that the Holy Spirit is given to anybody but anybody who has faith in Jesus Christ is born again - and are born of the Spirit. Now go and study what "born" and "born again" mean - it's much deeper than what you are believing else you would know that a believer's position in the household of God cannot be taken away from him - it is given to him by birth.

I do know what born again means, and it is not simply just believe.
To be born again means not only do you believe and trust in Him, you also believe and trust to do what He said.

 

[Jason0047]

First you know that you are going to sin. We have an advocate with the Father that when we sin He will intercede for us. Christ ministers our salvation and He is able to keep us saved no matter what.

You accuse these straw men of sinning with impunity. This is wrong thinking. Those who are Gods will be chastened when they sin. Their eternal life is not lost but they will bear in their bodies the cost of sin.

While I'm not impressed with your attitude toward others I do not know what is going on in your life. God does and it is He who will minister to you. You need to remember that pride goeth before the fall. Poor application of biblical principals does not assure a good outcome.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Wow. Can you just imagine Jesus saying that? "Hey look guys, I know you are going to sin. So it's okay." No. Jesus never said anything like that. Jesus said pray so as not to be led into temptation. So no. He never said for us to just give into sin because it might be too hard to overcome for a lot of people. That is your false Theology of wanting to do evil talking.

Also, you still believe it is wrong for me to judge others for them in condoning evil behavior as a saint. Uh, it's not wrong to point out bad or evil behavior. Hitler is an evil guy. There are many other people in this life who were evil because of what they have done. So forgive me if I am not impressed with the fact that you are not impressed with my judgment upon that which is evil. If you believe I have judged someone unfairly, then please point it out and I would be happy to ask for forgiveness. But so far, nobody is standing up for what is truly right and good, though. Folks here are all condoning a sin and still be saved doctrine which is pure evil.

In fact, you know it is pure evil deep down.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You are just not looking at all of what the text is saying. 1 John 1:6 says that the blood of Jesus CLEANSES US OF ALL SIN by walking in the Light as He is in the Light. In other words, the walk is tied to one's salvation. For how can you be saved and NOT be cleansed of all sin by Christ's blood?

This being CLEANSED of sin can be seen in 1 John 1:9 as I had pointed out before. 1 John 1:9 says IF we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9 says we are forgiven of our sins thru confession and cleansed of all unrighteoused. There is that word again. CLEANSED. Cleansed of what? Sin. For all unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17). So it has nothing to do with some sin and still be saved type OSAS walk but it has to do with a real walk with God whereby they walk in the Light in the Light as He is in the Light (So as to be CLEANSED of all sin) and whereby they confess of their sin so as to be CLEANSED of all unrighteousness.

As for looking thru God's eyes: He does not condone sin and or approve of His people in doing evil. God is Holy and is incapable of sinning. God will not allow you to evil under any circumstance. If you believe that, then you be destroyed after the Judgment for being wicked instead of loving God (Like you are supposed to do). For ignoring the problem of your sin and acting like it is not there is not going to make it go away. You have to confess your sin so as to be cleansed as 1 John 1:9 says. You have to walk in the Light as He is in the Light in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse you of all sin. No walking in the Light and no cleansing of your sin. If your sin is not cleansed, then that means it is going to be a stain on your record still.

I have no stain, I have no record or accounting against me for God does not impute my trespasses against me.

Within that new man that God looks at which was created in righteousness and holiness - He sees Christ in me.

 

[Jason0047]

You are just not looking at all of what the text is saying. 1 John 1:6 says that the blood of Jesus CLEANSES US OF ALL SIN by walking in the Light as He is in the Light. In other words, the walk is tied to one's salvation. For how can you be saved and NOT be cleansed of all sin by Christ's blood?

This being CLEANSED of sin can be seen in 1 John 1:9 as I had pointed out before. 1 John 1:9 says IF we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9 says we are forgiven of our sins thru confession and cleansed of all unrighteoused. There is that word again. CLEANSED. Cleansed of what? Sin. For all unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17). So it has nothing to do with some sin and still be saved type OSAS walk but it has to do with a real walk with God whereby they walk in the Light in the Light as He is in the Light (So as to be CLEANSED of all sin) and whereby they confess of their sin so as to be CLEANSED of all unrighteousness.

As for looking thru God's eyes: He does not condone sin and or approve of His people in doing evil. God is Holy and is incapable of sinning. God will not allow you to evil under any circumstance. If you believe that, then you be destroyed after the Judgment for being wicked instead of loving God (Like you are supposed to do). For ignoring the problem of your sin and acting like it is not there is not going to make it go away. You have to confess your sin so as to be cleansed as 1 John 1:9 says. You have to walk in the Light as He is in the Light in order for the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse you of all sin. No walking in the Light and no cleansing of your sin. If your sin is not cleansed, then that means it is going to be a stain on your record still.

Edit:

Meant to say 1 John 1:7 and not 1 John 1:6.

 

[Jason0047]

I have no stain, I have no record or accounting against me for God does not impute my trespasses against me.

Within that new man that God looks at which was created in righteousness and holiness - He sees Christ in me.

There you go again ignoring Scripture. This is several times you are ignoring it now. 1 John 1:7 says, CLEANSES US FROM ALL SIN as a part of walking in the Light. 1 John 1:9 says that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to CLEANSE US OF ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. All unrighteousness is sin (1 John 5:17). Read the verses again. You are ignoring the word "cleanse" which is tied to our salvation.