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The dog has returned to it's vomit again and the latter end is worse than the beginning for them. Meaning, the believer who turns back towards the vomit of their sin again is better off if they just remained an unbeliever. For Jesus will spew the Lukewarm Christian out of his mouth. He would rather you be hot (A righteous believer) or cold (an unbeliever). In other words, choose this day whom ye will serve. The Lord or the devil. You cannot serve two masters.
K
The thing is to though that even if you take the chastising, and then turn around and to it again. Then you are not truly accepting it for the correcting purpose it is for. The chastising is not just to say hay you did bad, here is your punishment. Then once the punishment is over you can go do it again. He chastises us to correct us to not do it again, if you continue to do it then you make yourself illegitimate..................
Yeah, that is not a deterrent and you know it. Unbelievers face the same exact challenges in life as believers. Yes, the Lord does in fact chastise his people. But that is not enough of a deterrent to stop them from sinning with the thinking they will be saved. The only true deterrent is one's separation from God and destruction in the Lake of Fire.
So one can quit doing the work of faith and be saved anyway?
A Christian can quit walking in the light, 1 Jn 1:7, quit confessing his sins, 1 Jn 1:9 and be saved anyway?
Rev 2:5 Jesus told the church at Ephesus "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
The church at Ephesus was fallen for failing to continue to do the first works:
"What were those first works which the Ephesians had stopped doing? They were the commandments of the Lord. Oh, to be sure, they were carrying on an extensive program of works, but such things were not the work of faith. The interpretation that fills many of the commentaries with the view that the Ephesians had all the works they needed misses this point altogether. It was not a question of their having discharged their full obligation regarding works, but a case of their having failed in this very category. They were not, at the time of John's writing, doing the "work of faith"; they were doing their own thing religiously. Such things, no doubt, were indeed good works, else Christ would not have commended them; but the first obligation of every Christian and every church on earth is to do the works Christ commanded."
Coffman Commentary
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Lastly Rev 2:26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"
A Christian can quit walking in the light, 1 Jn 1:7, quit confessing his sins, 1 Jn 1:9 and be saved anyway?
Rev 2:5 Jesus told the church at Ephesus "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
The church at Ephesus was fallen for failing to continue to do the first works:
"What were those first works which the Ephesians had stopped doing? They were the commandments of the Lord. Oh, to be sure, they were carrying on an extensive program of works, but such things were not the work of faith. The interpretation that fills many of the commentaries with the view that the Ephesians had all the works they needed misses this point altogether. It was not a question of their having discharged their full obligation regarding works, but a case of their having failed in this very category. They were not, at the time of John's writing, doing the "work of faith"; they were doing their own thing religiously. Such things, no doubt, were indeed good works, else Christ would not have commended them; but the first obligation of every Christian and every church on earth is to do the works Christ commanded."
Coffman Commentary
--------------------------
Lastly Rev 2:26 "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"
Ken, I know you are correct regarding some people in life, however, I see absolutely no grace from some people here. No one lives without sin. Though your love for Jesus is quite apparent, do you ever sin? The answer is yes. So receive God's gift for what it is, free and secure. The glass is half full, my Brother.
V
I have been praying and meditating before God regarding this post. Before going any further, I would like to determine where your ideas are coming from. So this post is directed to those who are convinced salvation is conditional.
You say you must obey the Lord in order to maintain good standing with Him. What if you were tempted to lie to somebody for some reason and just as those deceptive words impulsively came out of your mouth, the Lord God required your soul to leave this earth. Would you be headed to heaven or would you be on your way to hell?
You say you must obey the Lord in order to maintain good standing with Him. What if you were tempted to lie to somebody for some reason and just as those deceptive words impulsively came out of your mouth, the Lord God required your soul to leave this earth. Would you be headed to heaven or would you be on your way to hell?
If I may?
IMO, any that speak obedience to His Instructions are usually called "justified by works" "not in the Spirit" etc...
However Scripture is clear:
Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
Romans 8:5-8 (ESV), "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
Just because we have mercy does not mean we throw all Instructions in the Law of Yahweh in the trash.
Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"
1 John 2:3-6, "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of Yah is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked." (ESV)
But many say "if you read it your not in the Spirit" Whaaaaat? I wait I know:
Jude 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah"
2 Thess 2:6-12, "For the mystery of iniquity (secret initiation of lawlessness*) is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan, who works with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of sin in those who are perishing, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason, Yahweh will send them strong delusion, that they would believe the deception, In order that all those may be judged as not having believed the truth, but as having delighted in sin."
*What is the "mystery of iniquity" ?
3466 mustérion
mustérion: a mystery or secret doctrine
Short Definition: anything hidden, a mystery
Definition: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary;
458 anomia
anomia: lawlessness
Short Definition:lawlessness, iniquity
Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin
1 Timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaks very plainly, that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared as with a hot iron"
2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”
IMO, any that speak obedience to His Instructions are usually called "justified by works" "not in the Spirit" etc...
However Scripture is clear:
Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."
Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."
Romans 8:5-8 (ESV), "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
Just because we have mercy does not mean we throw all Instructions in the Law of Yahweh in the trash.
Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"
1 John 2:3-6, "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of Yah is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked." (ESV)
But many say "if you read it your not in the Spirit" Whaaaaat? I wait I know:
Jude 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah"
2 Thess 2:6-12, "For the mystery of iniquity (secret initiation of lawlessness*) is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan, who works with all power, and signs, and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of sin in those who are perishing, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason, Yahweh will send them strong delusion, that they would believe the deception, In order that all those may be judged as not having believed the truth, but as having delighted in sin."
*What is the "mystery of iniquity" ?
3466 mustérion
mustérion: a mystery or secret doctrine
Short Definition: anything hidden, a mystery
Definition: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary;
458 anomia
anomia: lawlessness
Short Definition:lawlessness, iniquity
Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin
1 Timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaks very plainly, that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared as with a hot iron"
2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”
I did not write the Bible. It is the Bible that I quote. Not myself. It is written that it is the fear of the Lord that men depart from evil. Do you believe that verse in the Bible? Also, your reply here is no way an explanation as to what I had said before. Jesus says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven. I did not say that. Jesus did. Do you believe Jesus' words here? Can you explain what they mean to you in light of the OSAS sin and still be saved belief?
Not doing evil is not a work. Not stealing is not a work. Not lying is not a work. Not murdering is not a work. Not hating is not a work. These are passive things. Doing those things would be considered a work. Not a work for good, but a work of evil. When a believer is born again, they are changed spiritually and God lives within them and God does the good work within their lives. That is why it is not salvation by works. Philippians 2:13 says that is God that works within us. In 1 Corinthians 15:10, Paul says that he labored more than all of his brethren, but it was not himself but the grace of God that was withn him. Paul did not take the credit. It's why the elders had cast their crowns down before Jesus. Once a person is saved by repenting of their sins and trustng in his finished work, then good works and holiness will follow. Holiness and fruitful works are not done so as to be saved but because one has been saved. It's like wind and water. Every time a strong wind comes upon the waters, you know there will be some waves. Just as with a true believer. If God lives within a person, then God's good works will flow thru them.
John 8 (ESV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” [SUP]
33 [/SUP]They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?”
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [SUP]
37 [/SUP]I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”
[SUP]32 [/SUP]and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” [SUP]
33 [/SUP]They answered him, “We are offspring of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. How is it that you say, ‘You will become free’?”
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. [SUP]
37 [/SUP]I know that you are offspring of Abraham; yet you seek to kill me because my word finds no place in you.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father.”
Well, I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I believe works are a result of accepting God or the free gift. God does the works within a believer. However, do you need to realize that even free gifts come with some level of responsibility if you want to keep them.
For example:
If I give you a brand new car (tax free) that does not mean that you can be irresponsible with that gift. You can't run red lights, plow thru pedestrians, text and drive, drink and drive, ignore general maintainence on your car and still expect to keep your free gift. Most gifts require some kind of care involved at some point.
For example:
If I give you a brand new car (tax free) that does not mean that you can be irresponsible with that gift. You can't run red lights, plow thru pedestrians, text and drive, drink and drive, ignore general maintainence on your car and still expect to keep your free gift. Most gifts require some kind of care involved at some point.