Matthew 12:32 KJV

[oldthennew]

1COR.3:9-8-9
Now He that plants and He that waters are One:
and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

For we are labourers together with God:
you are God's husbandry, you are God's building.

According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder,
I have laid the foundation and another builds thereon.
But let every man take heed how he builds thereon.

sounds like a real job to me, one for which I need all of the Holy help I can get
today and every day for the rest of my life, therefore I humbly submit to my Lord
because of what He did and does for me.
I just can't thank Him enough, but I can and will do my best to please Him -
anyway that I can.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

To paraphrase Inego Montoya:

"You keep quoting that passage. It does not mean what you think it means."

Therefore, for you, it is not proof.

I fully understand it, it's a shame people want to reject it as the Truth.

 

[Elin]

Falling away from the faith, in the NT sense, is falling away from a profession of faith.

Not all professions of faith are actually true faith,
and that is what falling away is to show, and does show (1Jn 2:19).

This is all the proof one needs.
Hebrews 6:4-8[SUP]4 [/SUP]

Actually, the proof one needs is:

a correct understanding of Heb 6:4-8 in its context,
the meaning of "falling away" in the NT sense, and
agreement with 1Jn 2:19, above,

none of which are found in your response.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yes, a correct understanding of scripture is what is needed, and also not denying the scriptures.

Hebrews 6:4-8[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

[stabbo]

I suggest Jesus as sun block one billion to the 50th power wont help when burning in the mists of darkness forever........

I wouldnt want to go to heaven anyway, because no one I ever loved will be there and that would be hell for me.

 

[Bookends]

How about those who reject the Holy Spirits voice by falling away from the faith?

Hebrews 6:4-8[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

I don't think you quit understand this passage. The context is a warning to Jews who came to believe in Christ, but then later would sink back into Judaism (they was a lot of peer pressure among the Jewish community not to follow Christ). What the writer is saying, I think is this, that this person can always come back to faith again, simply by following Christ again. Because Christ's death on the cross was more then sufficient to cover his backslide sin, Christ does not have to suffer and die all over again to save this man. To say that, is to say that His first death and shedding of his blood was insufficient. The don't have to renew themselves again as if to apply the blood of Christ again, to do so would trample the blood of Christ and devalue His first death.

 

[Bookends]

I wouldnt want to go to heaven anyway, because no one I ever loved will be there and that would be hell for me.

So if everyone you loved here on earth died, would you want to kill yourself, because no one here on earth you love will no longer be here?

 

[Elin]

I don't think you quit understand this passage. The context is a warning to Jews who came to believe in Christ, but then later would sink back into Judaism (they was a lot of peer pressure among the Jewish community not to follow Christ). What the writer is saying, I think is this, that this person can always come back to faith again, simply by following Christ again. Because Christ's death on the cross was more then sufficient to cover his backslide sin, Christ does not have to suffer and die all over again to save this man. To say that, is to say that His first death and shedding of his blood was insufficient. The don't have to renew themselves again as if to apply the blood of Christ again, to do so would trample the blood of Christ and devalue His first death.

Would he not be saying much more. . .that as long as they remain in Judaism (which denies Christ),
they are denying the blood that bought them, which is their only redemption from God's wrath
(Jn 3:36), and will, therefore, die in their sin, separated from God and under his condemnation?

The true believers would obey the writer's warning, while the false believers would not, and would die without forgiveness, condemned to God's wrath.

 

[p_rehbein]

We have people right here on CC who deny the Holy Spirit, the Holy Trinity...............soooooooooooo, what about them?

 

[p_rehbein]

So if everyone you loved here on earth died, would you want to kill yourself, because no one here on earth you love will no longer be here?

Since he has no desire to, I think God will allow him to realize the fruits of his desires............."give him over" as the Scripture goes.............

 

[CRC]

Past the Point of Repentance
Jesus’ warning referred to willful and deliberate “blasphemy against the spirit.” There is no acquittal for this type of sin. “No, not in this system of things nor in that to come,” he added. (Matthew 12:31, 32) Those guilty of such sin will not be resurrected.
What is blasphemy against the spirit? It emanates from the heart, revealing a malicious attitude and intent. The purposeful intent to oppose God’s holy spirit intensifies the seriousness of this sin. To illustrate: In some parts of the world, the law distinguishes between murder in the first degree and murder in the second degree on the basis of intent and the way the murder was committed, and it limits capital punishment (death) to intentional or premeditated murder.
The apostle Paul was formerly a blasphemer but said: “I was shown mercy, because I was ignorant.” (1 Timothy 1:13) To sin against the holy spirit is to oppose it willfully. It involves a wicked heart condition that reaches the point of no return.
Paul was evidently referring to this kind of sin when he wrote: “It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance.” (Hebrews 6:4-6) The apostle also said: “If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left.”—Hebrews 10:26.
It was the conduct of some religious leaders in his day that prompted Jesus to warn against the unforgivable sin. But they did not heed his warning. In fact, they had him killed. Later they heard undeniable evidence that the holy spirit had done something miraculous. They were told that Jesus had been brought back from the dead! It was clear that Jesus was the Christ! Still, they acted wickedly against the holy spirit by paying the Roman soldiers to lie about Jesus’ resurrection.—Matthew 28:11-15.

 

[dcontroversal]

I wouldnt want to go to heaven anyway, because no one I ever loved will be there and that would be hell for me.

No offence, but the memory of the wicked will be forgotten and I just came back from a 21 day stay down under and that has got to be the most ignorant reason that I have ever heard of why you don't want to go to heaven!

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

No offence, but the memory of the wicked will be forgotten and I just came back from a 21 day stay down under and that has got to be the most ignorant reason that I have ever heard of why you don't want to go to heaven!

This however, is a true feeling by a number of people because of the teachings of the churches today. Someone they loved NOT making the cut.

 

[dcontroversal]

This however, is a true feeling by a number of people because of the teachings of the churches today. Someone they loved NOT making the cut.

That may be, yet to me that is a very poor reason for not wanting to make the Kingdom of God.....I have family and friends that have probably died lost...that does not mean that I want to spend eternity in the lake of fire with them and not to mention that there will be no family reunions and or parties in the lake of fire and for sure no family association and or comfort....the bible describes it as the mists of darkness for ever and the blackness of darkness for ever......I am sorry, but I cannot fathom that line of reasoning........!

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

That may be, yet to me that is a very poor reason for not wanting to make the Kingdom of God.....I have family and friends that have probably died lost...that does not mean that I want to spend eternity in the lake of fire with them and not to mention that there will be no family reunions and or parties in the lake of fire and for sure no family association and or comfort....the bible describes it as the mists of darkness for ever and the blackness of darkness for ever......I am sorry, but I cannot fathom that line of reasoning........!

The point being that out of love, it is difficult to live in any paradise knowing that those who've you might have claimed to love, is somewhere burning or has perished forever. That wouldn't be heaven to a lot of people. Thank God it is NOT the truth.

 

[dcontroversal]

The point being that out of love, it is difficult to live in any paradise knowing that those who've you might have claimed to love, is somewhere burning or has perished forever. That wouldn't be heaven to a lot of people. Thank God it is NOT the truth.

The memory of the wicked will be forgotten....so.....the above philosophy is flawed albeit to the ignorance of scriptures....

 

[mystic7]

hi Rebecca.

what do you think of the event that happened just prior to the verse you quoted?

Matt 12:22:31
Then a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw.
All the crowds were amazed, and were saying, “This man cannot be the Son of David, can he?”
But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons.”
And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.
“If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
“If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
“But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
“Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.


“He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.


“Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
“Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."


ps--i agree with you...God's children have nothing to fear from this warning.




Basically one way to blasphemy the Holy Ghost (according to these scriptures), is giving satan credit for Gods miracles

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

The memory of the wicked will be forgotten....so.....the above philosophy is flawed albeit to the ignorance of scriptures....

The problem should be what does this statement mean. Remember you were once of the wicked. There will be a time in which both you and God will no longer remember them.

 

[Elin]

We have people right here on CC who deny the Holy Spirit, the Holy Trinity...............soooooooooooo, what about them?

Do you mean they denied the blood that bought them, deny Christ's propitiation?

 

[Elin]

The memory of the wicked will be forgotten....so.....the above philosophy is flawed albeit to the ignorance of scriptures....

The problem should be
what does this statement mean. Remember you were once of the wicked. There will be a time in which both you and God will no longer remember them.

It means those who die in wickedness remain wicked forever, and their memory will be forgotten in heaven.

Those in Christ are no longer wicked, and the statement does not apply to them.