Will there actually be a Rapture?

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What is it that you propose the "gathering" will look like?
Gathered in death only? Then why does the Word say "and those still alive".
Gathered together while still on the ground? Then why does it say "in the clouds".
Gathered together by being given wings to fly to Christ? Well, I don't have an objection, but also see not reference to that narrative within Scripture.

"I wait for the resurrection of the dead and the life of ages that is to come" - this is the christian eschatological hope and faith. Nothing more, nothing less. No rapture in the clouds, no escape into a spiritual realm.

In post number 8, I gave a link to what the New Testament scholar Tom Wright says about the rapture. If you are interested, access the link. The video is only 5 minutes.
 
If that were a sound doctrine, I´ve liked these Jesus personally said:

"Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed; the one will be taken, and the other will be left. Luk 17:35 Two women will be grinding together; the one will be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men will be in the field; the one will be taken, and the other left. "
 
The Early Church as well as Saint Paul used a lot of vivid images in order to render an event which magnitude no words can actually describe.

This view totally rejects faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of GOD...if the word is not meant to be understood in context....and to another of your posts that I just read...at the end of the day you regurgitate what another man teaches instead of paying heed tot he simple word of God and what it teaches.....!

So do you teach the doctrine of Christ or the doctrine of Tom Wright?
 
"I wait for the resurrection of the dead and the life of ages that is to come" - this is the christian eschatological hope and faith. Nothing more, nothing less. No rapture in the clouds, no escape into a spiritual realm.

In post number 8, I gave a link to what the New Testament scholar Tom Wright says about the rapture. If you are interested, access the link. The video is only 5 minutes.
Just watched it.
I take a rather allegorical interpretation of Scripture, but your teacher is just ignoring the letters and words entirely. There's no point in even reading the Bible if you are just replacing all the parts you disagree with.

No need for debate here. You can't debate Bible topics when a person tells you that Paul didn't mean what he said,
and Paul was really trying to say something else entirely than what he wrote,
and to understand what he was saying, we have to pull a whole bunch of unrelated verses together and get them to line up with my preconceived notion.
 
Btw, I totally called that you were a postmillenialist, so I get a cookie.
 
I don't know of any theologians that believe in absolute truth and the authority of Scripture, and yet reject rapture.
Such a view does not exist to my knowledge.

In my case it is exactly the contrary. I don't know of any New Testament scholar or theologian who would sustain the doctrine of rapture.

Could you provide some studies of early christianity or 1st century Palestine regarding jewish and christian eschatology? Thank you.
 
If someone plainly disagrees with what is written in the bible conversation should end now instead of debating because in their case they are a lost cause. I'm really over these types of people. If it says something in the bible for Eg.

We will be gathered up into the clouds to be with our Lord

Then that's what it means!!! It's not hard to understand this!

So in that case if someone still doesn't get it then it's a good time to move onto another thread.
 
If someone plainly disagrees with what is written in the bible conversation should end now instead of debating because in their case they are a lost cause. I'm really over these types of people. If it says something in the bible for Eg..

Well, the opener, just like me and a considerable number of christians all over the world, never heard of the doctrine of rapture. Why? It is simple. Because orthodox christianity (by "orthodox" I mean the christian churches who confess the Nicene creed and the Chalcedon belief) never thought or confessed a literal "rapture". This belief of a rapture is popular among the American christian sects who, like it or not, read the Bible but are illiterate when it comes to understanding what they read.

If you don't like that this rapture doctrine is an invention of the XVI century sects, it is entirely your problem. You don't have to participate in the discussion.

So in that case if someone still doesn't get it then it's a good time to move onto another thread.

You should give this advice to yourself.
 
I still wait from Ukorin the studies about early christianity and its eschatological view.
 
Well, the opener, just like me and a considerable number of christians all over the world, never heard of the doctrine of rapture. Why? It is simple. Because orthodox christianity (by "orthodox" I mean the christian churches who confess the Nicene creed and the Chalcedon belief) never thought or confessed a literal "rapture". This belief of a rapture is popular among the American christian sects who, like it or not, read the Bible but are illiterate when it comes to understanding what they read.

If you don't like that this rapture doctrine is an invention of the XVI century sects, it is entirely your problem. You don't have to participate in the discussion.



You should give this advice to yourself.

And I am still waiting on your answer...do you teach the doctrine of Christ or the doctrine of Tom Wright....not to mention that you have totally rejected the truth that has been presented and the scriptures that prove your view is flawed......!
 
And I am still waiting on your answer...do you teach the doctrine of Christ or the doctrine of Tom Wright....not to mention that you have totally rejected the truth that has been presented and the scriptures that prove your view is flawed......!

I don't teach doctrines.
 
Yeah that's right...you propagate what Tom Wright teaches?

Well, Tom Wright is a big name in the study of New Testament and I said to myself that maybe the opener wants to hear what this scholar has to say about the rapture.

I encourage you and your girlfriend Ella to view the link I gave in post nr. 8.
 
Well, Tom Wright is a big name in the study of New Testament and I said to myself that maybe the opener wants to hear what this scholar has to say about the rapture.

I encourage you and your girlfriend Ella to view the link I gave in post nr. 8.


First and foremost I could care less what Tom Wright has to say about anything as a New Testament scholar he is not....Second, the scriptures speak clearly about the body presence of Christ and our gathering together unto him.....Third, if you want to follow an ignorant man who knows nothing go a ahead and reject the obvious truth of the N.T. and what it teaches........!
 
Googled "scriptures concerning the rapture,' and this is what I got......... wow......bunches!



1 Thessalonians 4:17 - Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelation 1:7 - Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Matthew 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Matthew 24:31 - And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Matthew 24:21 - For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Revelation 4:1 - After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 3:10 - Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Mark 13:32-37 - But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. (Read More...)

Mark 13:24-27 - But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (Read More...)

Matthew 24:36 - But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Revelation 22:16 - I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thessalonians 5:3 - For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

John 14:3 - And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.

Mark 13:32 - But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Matthew 24:42 - Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Matthew 13:30 - Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Revelation 19:11-21 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. (Read More...)

Revelation 15:2 - And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Revelation 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 7:14 - And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 7:13 - And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Revelation 7:3 - Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:1-17 - And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (Read More...)

Revelation 6:16 - And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Revelation 6:1-17 - And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. (Read More...)

Revelation 1:1-20 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified [it] by his angel unto his servant John: (Read More...)

James 1:12 - Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Hebrews 2:14 - Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Titus 2:13 - Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

1 Thessalonians 5:2 - For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 - And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Corinthians 14:33 - For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

John 14:2 - In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Luke 21:36 - Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 21:34-36 - And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares. (Read More...)

Luke 21:16 - And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and [some] of you shall they cause to be put to death.

Luke 18:8 - I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Luke 12:40 - Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Mark 13:9 - But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Matthew 26:64 - Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Matthew 25:1-13 - Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. (Read More...)

Matthew 24:27 - For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Matthew 24:22 - And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 13:39 - The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.


(found here)


Bible Verses About The Rapture - OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ...
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. note
 
Next time post whole scriptures think you try again thank you for shopping at the quickie mart , but seriously look carefully at scripture that you not be deceived or is it the judgement of God upon you that you receive a strong dillusion that you believe a truth for a lie , but this is not in any way to mock you but to allow you to rethink and re evaluate and re study to be counted approved by God in all discernment after all we all must learn and grow but instead humble yourself to be allowed revelation
 
What are the alternatives to rapture?
If there is no "taking/snatching up" of the saints at the Lord's Return, then what happens to those alive in Christ at the His Return?

If you say rapture is not Biblical, then what is?
 
What are the alternatives to rapture?
If there is no "taking/snatching up" of the saints at the Lord's Return, then what happens to those alive in Christ at the His Return?

If you say rapture is not Biblical, then what is?
They too will be gathered the dead in Christ first then the ones alive that is when we will receive the glorified bodies , a mighty sight that we will be on the stage sight for all to see then the battle of armaggedon will commence we will slay #ll those that received the mark the angels will cast the beast and his prophet alive in the lake of fire and Satan bound
 
What are the alternatives to rapture?
If there is no "taking/snatching up" of the saints at the Lord's Return, then what happens to those alive in Christ at the His Return?

If you say rapture is not Biblical, then what is?

Do you ask me?

What is biblical and ecclesiological is the waiting for the resurrection of the dead, for the second coming of Jesus Christ when He will join the earth and the sky into a new creation (He will make all things new), He will bring perfect justice, perfect love, He will bring His kingdom (that we long for when we say "thy kingdom come") and evil will be forever destroyed.
 
Do you ask me?

What is biblical and ecclesiological is the waiting for the resurrection of the dead, for the second coming of Jesus Christ when He will join the earth and the sky into a new creation (He will make all things new), He will bring perfect justice, perfect love, He will bring His kingdom (that we long for when we say "thy kingdom come") and evil will be forever destroyed.
And in this process of Him joining the earth and sky into a new creation, those who are alive are gathered and changed, which is called rapture. Placing it after the Tribulation period, or denying a literal physical millenium, doesn't change the existence of Christ coming, gathering, and changing those alive in Christ in an instant.

You can deny pretrib rapture, you can deny midtrib rapture, you can deny postrib rapture, you can deny a literal millennium,
but you can't deny the gathering and instant transformation of those alive in Christ at His Return and still say you hold to the Word as authoritative.