55 Year Old Man Impregnates His 11 Year Old Granddaughter
- Thread starter Colorful
- Start date
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H
Just to clarify... you believe that God decides who will become pregnant and who will not, so to interfere with that is... sin? I guess? Okay so by that logic we can say this: A person is suffering from a genetic disease that will likely kill him/her before he/she is 50 if she is left untreated. So therefor, since God decides who gets children and who does not, he must also decide who is sick and who is well. We can throw out factors like genetic inheritance, environmental causes, possible treatments, because hey... God said she was meant to be sick. Just as he said this girl is meant to be pregnant? We should forget things like human intervention where things of God are concerned, yeah? So let's do away with vaccines, medicines, etc. Hey we could all stop going to work! God decides who will live and who will die anyway, our going to work to provide for ourselves is silly. It's God's choice, right? We're not meant to use the free will he gave us to make mistakes to learn from or to help others because whatever happened was in His will?
Or is it that he ALLOWS things to happen, rather than decides them. His word says he's not willing that even one should perish, but they do. The word says he knows when each sparrow falls to the ground. And if you subscribe to the idea that an unborn child is exactly that, a child, then surely you can see how even an abortion can be part of His plan?
Or is it that he ALLOWS things to happen, rather than decides them. His word says he's not willing that even one should perish, but they do. The word says he knows when each sparrow falls to the ground. And if you subscribe to the idea that an unborn child is exactly that, a child, then surely you can see how even an abortion can be part of His plan?
H
Absolutely agree. So if he knows the decisions that will be made, he knows who is going to get an abortion and who isn't... but he still blesses them with children. So, statistically speaking, God gives people children he knows are going to come right back to Him, and while I personally believe He has a reason for that, I can't pretend to know what it is. But I do know that condemnation for any sin is not the way of God. Redemption is. I always get concerned when I see Christians being so "pro life" that they begin hating the women involved instead of offering help or a better way. And once they've already had one, they're virtually "untouchables" in the eyes of many Christians. We're so quick to judge and so slow to love or try to understand...(Sorry Colorful. We might be derailing again, but I think some of this is relevant. Stop us any time.) The simple truth is that he knows the heart of the woman (in this case child) involved. And I think it's awesome that she decided to deliver the baby. Do I think that's the right decision for everyone? Probably not.
DiscipleDave said
i do not believe God decides who will become pregnant and who will not, i KNOW God decides who will become pregnant and who will not. And as to the question "so to interfere with that is .. sin? i have no ideal what you are asking here. If God decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant, how can someone interfere? is that what you are asking, or if someone can interfere? Sorry do not understand what you are asking here.
It is NOT the same logic at all. God decides who will have children and who will not have children. God does not decide who is well and who is sick. God has to abide by His own Rules that He has set. God can't lie. If God says "A person who sows to the flesh of the flesh shall reap corruption" If a person reaps corruption in the flesh because of what they sown, is on them, not because God desires that person to be sick, or decided for that person to be sick, that person because of their own choices that they have made are become sick. Likewise those who are well, is because they are Blessed, They have not sown to flesh and therefore do not suffer corruption in their flesh. They are well, not because God decided for them to be Well, but because of the choices they have made by not obeying the flesh and its desires they are then made well, not because God desires for them to be well, but he has to bless them because His Word says He will Bless them. But i assure you, before people blasts me with all kinds of posts. God does desire to give us blessings, not that we are Blessed by Him, but that we do Good so He can Bless us. Anyways. my point is one getting pregnant is NOT the same as one being sick or one being well. You are sick or well based on what choices you make in this life, good choices =Blessings, bad choices = lack of Blessings. A woman becoming pregnant is because God decided specifically that person shall create a life. Now it is True that could be seen from a human perspective as being a Blessing or not a Blessing. But regardless how it is seen by humans, it is God who decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant.
sigh.... As i said above, it is not the same logic.
God does allow things to happen, but it is God that decides who will have LIFE and who will not. Are you suggesting that God can't decide on anything, that ALL God does is allow stuff to happen and that's it? He don't decide who has LIFE and who does not have life?
How is killing another LIFE part of God's plan? Well if that is the case, then as soon as we know who the antichrist is, let us go and kill him. matters of fact, let us kill anyone that even might be the antichrist. Oh wait, we are told not to kill, we are told to love our enemies. We are told things like there is no greater love than for a person to lay down his life for another. Wow, imagine that a woman loving her unborn child so much that she is willing to lay down her life for another, there is not greater love than that, the Bible says. OH wait some teach that it is God's plan to kill an unborn CHILD.
This generation will not escape the wrath of God.
A farmer goes to town and a stranger comes up to Him and freely gives him an apple seed. He is so excited and rushes home and tells his wife and children that they are going to have an apple tree. He goes out with the entire family and they plant that seed in the ground, watered it. The next day the man comes out and dog had dug up the apple the tree and destroyed the seed. The man says to the dog, you have destroyed my apple tree, the dogs looks bewildered and said "I did not destroy any TREE, i only destroyed this seed"
woe to this generation for all those who believe Abortion is OK, is nothing but that dog destroying a seed that would one day be a human being. And on Judgement Day, they will not be able to plead ignorance, for who among those who know the Truth have not told them the Truth, and they refuse to hear it., They continue to believe in a false doctrine, saying things like God approves abortion.
^i^
i do not believe God decides who will become pregnant and who will not, i KNOW God decides who will become pregnant and who will not. And as to the question "so to interfere with that is .. sin? i have no ideal what you are asking here. If God decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant, how can someone interfere? is that what you are asking, or if someone can interfere? Sorry do not understand what you are asking here.
It is NOT the same logic at all. God decides who will have children and who will not have children. God does not decide who is well and who is sick. God has to abide by His own Rules that He has set. God can't lie. If God says "A person who sows to the flesh of the flesh shall reap corruption" If a person reaps corruption in the flesh because of what they sown, is on them, not because God desires that person to be sick, or decided for that person to be sick, that person because of their own choices that they have made are become sick. Likewise those who are well, is because they are Blessed, They have not sown to flesh and therefore do not suffer corruption in their flesh. They are well, not because God decided for them to be Well, but because of the choices they have made by not obeying the flesh and its desires they are then made well, not because God desires for them to be well, but he has to bless them because His Word says He will Bless them. But i assure you, before people blasts me with all kinds of posts. God does desire to give us blessings, not that we are Blessed by Him, but that we do Good so He can Bless us. Anyways. my point is one getting pregnant is NOT the same as one being sick or one being well. You are sick or well based on what choices you make in this life, good choices =Blessings, bad choices = lack of Blessings. A woman becoming pregnant is because God decided specifically that person shall create a life. Now it is True that could be seen from a human perspective as being a Blessing or not a Blessing. But regardless how it is seen by humans, it is God who decides who will get pregnant and who will not get pregnant.
sigh.... As i said above, it is not the same logic.
God does allow things to happen, but it is God that decides who will have LIFE and who will not. Are you suggesting that God can't decide on anything, that ALL God does is allow stuff to happen and that's it? He don't decide who has LIFE and who does not have life?
How is killing another LIFE part of God's plan? Well if that is the case, then as soon as we know who the antichrist is, let us go and kill him. matters of fact, let us kill anyone that even might be the antichrist. Oh wait, we are told not to kill, we are told to love our enemies. We are told things like there is no greater love than for a person to lay down his life for another. Wow, imagine that a woman loving her unborn child so much that she is willing to lay down her life for another, there is not greater love than that, the Bible says. OH wait some teach that it is God's plan to kill an unborn CHILD.
This generation will not escape the wrath of God.
A farmer goes to town and a stranger comes up to Him and freely gives him an apple seed. He is so excited and rushes home and tells his wife and children that they are going to have an apple tree. He goes out with the entire family and they plant that seed in the ground, watered it. The next day the man comes out and dog had dug up the apple the tree and destroyed the seed. The man says to the dog, you have destroyed my apple tree, the dogs looks bewildered and said "I did not destroy any TREE, i only destroyed this seed"
woe to this generation for all those who believe Abortion is OK, is nothing but that dog destroying a seed that would one day be a human being. And on Judgement Day, they will not be able to plead ignorance, for who among those who know the Truth have not told them the Truth, and they refuse to hear it., They continue to believe in a false doctrine, saying things like God approves abortion.
^i^
H
Oh my. I can see there isn't actually any reasoning with you. You seem to know how YOU feel about the situation. More power to ya. I will have it known though that I certainly never said I believed abortion was acceptable. I said the decision is hers to make. And that no matter what she decides, God can turn it to good. I can't even begin to address everything in your post because it would take me hours and there'd be no fruit. I will say that "woe to this generation" is certainly not constructive. I wish you the best of luck on your condemnation path. I'll be praying for you.
P
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Transliteration
yatsa'
[/TD]
[TD] Pronunciation
yä·tsä' (Key)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Part of Speech
verb
[/TD]
[TD] Root Word (Etymology)
A primitive root
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 893
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Outline of Biblical Usage
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] KJV Translation Count — Total: 1,069x
The KJV translates Strongs H3318 in the following manner: ....out (518x), ....forth (411x), bring (24x), come (24x), proceed (16x), go (13x), depart (10x), misc (53x).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
Click Here for the Rest of the Entry
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Word / Phrase / Strong's Search
Concordance Results Using KJV
Strong's Number H3318 matches the Hebrew יָצָא (yatsa' ),
which occurs 1,076 times in 992 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
Page 1 / 20 (Gen 1:12–Gen 34:1)
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 1:12[/TD]
[TD]And the earth brought forth [SUP]H3318[/SUP] grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 1:24[/TD]
[TD]And God said, Let the earth bring forth [SUP]H3318[/SUP] the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 2:10[/TD]
[TD]And a river went out [SUP]H3318[/SUP] of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 4:16[/TD]
[TD]And Cain went out [SUP]H3318[/SUP] from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 8:7[/TD]
[TD]And he sent forth a raven, which went forth [SUP]H3318[/SUP] to [SUP]H3318[/SUP] and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Gen 15:4
And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth [SUP]H3318[/SUP] out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD] Gen 25:25[/TD]
[TD]And the first came out [SUP]H3318[/SUP] red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse adj"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 25:26
[/TD]
[TD]And after that came [SUP]H3318[/SUP] his brother out, [SUP]H3318[/SUP] and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Exo 21:22[/TD]
[TD]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart [SUP]H3318[/SUP] from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[SUP]Ex. 21:22 [/SUP]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
It talking about the child life not the mother. The mischief is against the child not the mother.
Your friend in Christ
pug32
[TR]
[TD] Transliteration
yatsa'
[/TD]
[TD] Pronunciation
yä·tsä' (Key)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Part of Speech
verb
[/TD]
[TD] Root Word (Etymology)
A primitive root
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 893
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Outline of Biblical Usage
- to go out, come out, exit, go forth
- (Qal)
- to go or come out or forth, depart
- to go forth (to a place)
- to go forward, proceed to (to or toward something)
- to come or go forth (with purpose or for result)
- to come out of
- (Hiphil)
- to cause to go or come out, bring out, lead out
- to bring out of
- to lead out
- to deliver
- (Hophal) to be brought out or forth
- (Qal)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] KJV Translation Count — Total: 1,069x
The KJV translates Strongs H3318 in the following manner: ....out (518x), ....forth (411x), bring (24x), come (24x), proceed (16x), go (13x), depart (10x), misc (53x).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
Click Here for the Rest of the Entry
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Word / Phrase / Strong's Search
Concordance Results Using KJV
Strong's Number H3318 matches the Hebrew יָצָא (yatsa' ),
which occurs 1,076 times in 992 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
Page 1 / 20 (Gen 1:12–Gen 34:1)
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And the earth brought forth [SUP]H3318[/SUP] grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And God said, Let the earth bring forth [SUP]H3318[/SUP] the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And a river went out [SUP]H3318[/SUP] of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And Cain went out [SUP]H3318[/SUP] from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And he sent forth a raven, which went forth [SUP]H3318[/SUP] to [SUP]H3318[/SUP] and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth [SUP]H3318[/SUP] out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD] Gen 25:25[/TD]
[TD]And the first came out [SUP]H3318[/SUP] red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse adj"]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]And after that came [SUP]H3318[/SUP] his brother out, [SUP]H3318[/SUP] and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac was threescore years old when she bare them.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart [SUP]H3318[/SUP] from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[SUP]Ex. 21:22 [/SUP]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
It talking about the child life not the mother. The mischief is against the child not the mother.
Your friend in Christ
pug32
P
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] [TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Exo 21:22[/TD]
[TD]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit [SUP]H3206[/SUP] depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Fruit can also be son, child, and ect.
Transliteration
yeled
[/TD]
[TD] Pronunciation
yeh'·led (Key)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Part of Speech
masculine noun
[/TD]
[TD] Root Word (Etymology)
From יָלַד (H3205)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 867b
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Outline of Biblical Usage
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] KJV Translation Count — Total: 89x
The KJV translates Strongs H3206 in the following manner: child (72x), young man (7x), young ones (3x), sons (3x), boy (2x), fruit (1x), variant (1x).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Concordance Results Using KJV
Strong's Number H3206 matches the Hebrew יֶלֶד (yeled ),
which occurs 89 times in 76 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
Page 1 / 2 (Gen 4:23–2Ch 10:8)
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 4:23[/TD]
[TD]And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man [SUP]H3206[/SUP] to my hurt.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 21:8[/TD]
[TD]And the child [SUP]H3206[/SUP] grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 21:14[/TD]
[TD]And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, [SUP]H3206[/SUP] and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse adj"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 21:15[/TD]
[TD]And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child [SUP]H3206[/SUP] under one of the shrubs.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse adj"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 21:16[/TD]
[TD]And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. [SUP]H3206[/SUP] And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 30:26[/TD]
[TD]Give me my wives and my children, [SUP]H3206[/SUP] for whom I have served thee, and let me go: for thou knowest my service which I have done thee.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 32:22[/TD]
[TD]And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, [SUP]H3206[/SUP] and passed over the ford Jabbok.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 33:1[/TD]
[TD]And Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau came, and with him four hundred men. And he divided the children [SUP]H3206[/SUP] unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Transliteration
hareh
[/TD]
[TD] Pronunciation
hä·reh' (Key)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Part of Speech
feminine noun
[/TD]
[TD] Root Word (Etymology)
From הָרָה (H2029)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 515a
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Outline of Biblical Usage
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] KJV Translation Count — Total: 16x
The KJV translates Strongs H2030 in the following manner: ... with child (13x), conceive (3x).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Word / Phrase / Strong's Search
Concordance Results Using KJV
Strong's Number H2030 matches the Hebrew הָרֶה (hareh ),
which occurs 16 times in 16 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 16:11[/TD]
[TD]And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 38:24[/TD]
[TD]And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child [SUP]H2030[/SUP] by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse adj"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Gen 38:25[/TD]
[TD]When she was brought forth, she sent to her father in law, saying, By the man, whose these are, am I with child: [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and she said, Discern, I pray thee, whose are these, the signet, and bracelets, and staff.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Exo 21:22[/TD]
[TD]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Jdg 13:5[/TD]
[TD]For, lo, thou shalt conceive, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Jdg 13:7[/TD]
[TD]But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
1Sa 4:19[/TD]
[TD]And his daughter in law, Phinehas' wife, was with child, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] near to be delivered: and when she heard the tidings that the ark of God was taken, and that her father in law and her husband were dead, she bowed herself and travailed; for her pains came upon her.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
2Sa 11:5[/TD]
[TD]And the woman conceived, and sent and told David, and said, I am with child. [SUP]H2030[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
2Ki 8:12[/TD]
[TD]And Hazael said, Why weepeth my lord? And he answered, Because I know the evil that thou wilt do unto the children of Israel: their strong holds wilt thou set on fire, and their young men wilt thou slay with the sword, and wilt dash their children, and rip up their women with child. [SUP]H2030[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
Isa 7:14
[/TD]
[TD]Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Your friend in Christ
pug32
[TR]
[TD] [TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit [SUP]H3206[/SUP] depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Fruit can also be son, child, and ect.
Transliteration
yeled
[/TD]
[TD] Pronunciation
yeh'·led (Key)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Part of Speech
masculine noun
[/TD]
[TD] Root Word (Etymology)
From יָלַד (H3205)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 867b
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Outline of Biblical Usage
- child, son, boy, offspring, youth
- child, son, boy
- child, children
- descendants
- youth
- apostate Israelites (fig.)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] KJV Translation Count — Total: 89x
The KJV translates Strongs H3206 in the following manner: child (72x), young man (7x), young ones (3x), sons (3x), boy (2x), fruit (1x), variant (1x).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Concordance Results Using KJV
Strong's Number H3206 matches the Hebrew יֶלֶד (yeled ),
which occurs 89 times in 76 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
Page 1 / 2 (Gen 4:23–2Ch 10:8)
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man [SUP]H3206[/SUP] to my hurt.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And the child [SUP]H3206[/SUP] grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, [SUP]H3206[/SUP] and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse adj"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child [SUP]H3206[/SUP] under one of the shrubs.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse adj"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. [SUP]H3206[/SUP] And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]Give me my wives and my children, [SUP]H3206[/SUP] for whom I have served thee, and let me go: for thou knowest my service which I have done thee.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, and his eleven sons, [SUP]H3206[/SUP] and passed over the ford Jabbok.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau came, and with him four hundred men. And he divided the children [SUP]H3206[/SUP] unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Transliteration
hareh
[/TD]
[TD] Pronunciation
hä·reh' (Key)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD] Part of Speech
feminine noun
[/TD]
[TD] Root Word (Etymology)
From הָרָה (H2029)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 515a
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Outline of Biblical Usage
- pregnant
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] KJV Translation Count — Total: 16x
The KJV translates Strongs H2030 in the following manner: ... with child (13x), conceive (3x).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Word / Phrase / Strong's Search
Concordance Results Using KJV
Strong's Number H2030 matches the Hebrew הָרֶה (hareh ),
which occurs 16 times in 16 verses in the Hebrew concordance of the KJV
[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child [SUP]H2030[/SUP] by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse adj"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]When she was brought forth, she sent to her father in law, saying, By the man, whose these are, am I with child: [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and she said, Discern, I pray thee, whose are these, the signet, and bracelets, and staff.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]For, lo, thou shalt conceive, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and bear a son; and no razor shall come on his head: for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]But he said unto me, Behold, thou shalt conceive, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and bear a son; and now drink no wine nor strong drink, neither eat any unclean thing: for the child shall be a Nazarite to God from the womb to the day of his death.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And his daughter in law, Phinehas' wife, was with child, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] near to be delivered: and when she heard the tidings that the ark of God was taken, and that her father in law and her husband were dead, she bowed herself and travailed; for her pains came upon her.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And the woman conceived, and sent and told David, and said, I am with child. [SUP]H2030[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[TD]And Hazael said, Why weepeth my lord? And he answered, Because I know the evil that thou wilt do unto the children of Israel: their strong holds wilt thou set on fire, and their young men wilt thou slay with the sword, and wilt dash their children, and rip up their women with child. [SUP]H2030[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, [SUP]H2030[/SUP] and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Your friend in Christ
pug32
This is your opinion that is extra-biblical (not in the bible). You're not God; Your ways are not His ways nor your thoughts His thoughts. You could say, "I don't think He would ever..." and that's fair, but to use an absolute blanketed statement makes you sound like you're either God Himself, or He personally said this to you, verbatim.
Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think sex has to take place in order for a woman to get pregnant (not counting the immaculate conception of the Savior Jesus Christ). So seeing as it takes two people to have sex, wouldn't it be safe to say they are the first ingredients added to the recipe of creating a baby? A couple could have sex and NOT conceive (lets say God purposely refuses to let the sperm fertilize the egg), nevertheless, they still need to have sex for the possibility of procreating. I'm NOT saying God doesn't have any control... in fact, I've never disagreed with God's involvement.
Can you copy/paste any context where I said "sin" and/or "not sinning" is related to "getting pregnant" or "not getting pregnant", for me please? I don't recall ever saying that...
God does, absolutely. He gave man the ability to procreate. So now, life can be created by God in conjunction with humans via the power of procreation (motherhood and fatherhood). That isn't to say God doesn't have the ability to take away (or not give in the first place) this gift/power to His children.
Yes, Jeremiah 1:5... a commonly misused scripture that somehow articulates how "life begins at conception".
"Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and made thee a prophet unto the nations."
First of all, this scripture does not apply to all humanity... if it was, then God ordained ALL of humanity to be prophets to the nations as this passage was in reference to THE PROPHET JEREMIAH. I pray you reread it in context. Second of all, it says "Before I formed thee"... How is this any indication that "life begins at conception?" To me, this shows that God knows things past, present, and future.
Exactly, just as Jeremiah 1:5 shows how God sees things "before", now, and to come. We agree.
Umm... God alone, mother alone, and father alone don't cause the "conceivement" aka conception. Because of the gift God has given mankind, the conception happens in conjunction with God. See one of the previous statements.
I understand and grasp that you think the human requirements/prerequisites are irrelevant, I just don't agree with you. The human prerequisites are: 1.) Man sells sperm to bank. 2.) Woman must go to sperm bank. 3.) Woman must have sperm injected/implanted in her. 4.) THEN God comes into play here. How is God going to create the life if the man and woman do none of those above steps? I suppose He COULD if He wanted to (He's God), but we aren't discussing that point...
I agree, it is an act of God Thank God for his gift of procreation. The only difference is, I think "how a person procreates" goes hand-in-hand with a woman getting pregnant... I'm not sure how that isn't included.... And yes, if God doesn't want someone to become pregnant, regardless of how many times a couple has sex, they won't conceive a child (we agree).
The life was created against the plan He designed in reference to the gift of procreation....
That's like someone robbing a bank, stealing millions of dollars, and gives it to your daughter. Then the authorities catch the guy who robbed the bank and want to take the money back from your daughter. Are you going to argue and say, "Officer, you're stuck on HOW my daughter got the money, as evil and wrong as that is. I'm just focused on all the good I could do with the money given to her." Pretty convenient to not think about the HOW and focus only on the money... wouldn't you say?
Nope. The Grandpa and granddaughter could only procreate in conjunction with God.
Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think sex has to take place in order for a woman to get pregnant (not counting the immaculate conception of the Savior Jesus Christ). So seeing as it takes two people to have sex, wouldn't it be safe to say they are the first ingredients added to the recipe of creating a baby? A couple could have sex and NOT conceive (lets say God purposely refuses to let the sperm fertilize the egg), nevertheless, they still need to have sex for the possibility of procreating. I'm NOT saying God doesn't have any control... in fact, I've never disagreed with God's involvement.
Can you copy/paste any context where I said "sin" and/or "not sinning" is related to "getting pregnant" or "not getting pregnant", for me please? I don't recall ever saying that...
God does, absolutely. He gave man the ability to procreate. So now, life can be created by God in conjunction with humans via the power of procreation (motherhood and fatherhood). That isn't to say God doesn't have the ability to take away (or not give in the first place) this gift/power to His children.
Yes, Jeremiah 1:5... a commonly misused scripture that somehow articulates how "life begins at conception".
"Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and made thee a prophet unto the nations."
First of all, this scripture does not apply to all humanity... if it was, then God ordained ALL of humanity to be prophets to the nations as this passage was in reference to THE PROPHET JEREMIAH. I pray you reread it in context. Second of all, it says "Before I formed thee"... How is this any indication that "life begins at conception?" To me, this shows that God knows things past, present, and future.
Exactly, just as Jeremiah 1:5 shows how God sees things "before", now, and to come. We agree.
Umm... God alone, mother alone, and father alone don't cause the "conceivement" aka conception. Because of the gift God has given mankind, the conception happens in conjunction with God. See one of the previous statements.
I understand and grasp that you think the human requirements/prerequisites are irrelevant, I just don't agree with you. The human prerequisites are: 1.) Man sells sperm to bank. 2.) Woman must go to sperm bank. 3.) Woman must have sperm injected/implanted in her. 4.) THEN God comes into play here. How is God going to create the life if the man and woman do none of those above steps? I suppose He COULD if He wanted to (He's God), but we aren't discussing that point...
I agree, it is an act of God Thank God for his gift of procreation
. The only difference is, I think "how a person procreates" goes hand-in-hand with a woman getting pregnant... I'm not sure how that isn't included.... And yes, if God doesn't want someone to become pregnant, regardless of how many times a couple has sex, they won't conceive a child (we agree).The life was created against the plan He designed in reference to the gift of procreation....
That's like someone robbing a bank, stealing millions of dollars, and gives it to your daughter. Then the authorities catch the guy who robbed the bank and want to take the money back from your daughter. Are you going to argue and say, "Officer, you're stuck on HOW my daughter got the money, as evil and wrong as that is. I'm just focused on all the good I could do with the money given to her." Pretty convenient to not think about the HOW and focus only on the money... wouldn't you say?
Nope. The Grandpa and granddaughter could only procreate in conjunction with God.
How does it have nothing to do with free will at all? The grandpa was FORCED to have sex with his granddaughter? I'm pretty sure he abused his free will...
As the previous response states, Grandpa abused HIS free will by having sex with his granddaughter. He abused his free will... To be more explicit, he chose to plant his seed which has the possibility of causing his granddaughter to get pregnant (in which case, she did). You are correct in saying the girl didn't choose to be raped (as rape is involuntary...). The grandfather and granddaughter, IN CONJUNCTION with God (allowing the girl to get pregnant) is what caused her to get pregnant. Could the grandfather and granddaughter conceived a fetus if they never had sex? Yes or no?
Free will has everything to do with the girl getting pregnant. Had the grandfather not abused his free will, the granddaughter would not have gotten pregnant... True or false? If true, then it's completely relative!!! lol
Yikes... I sincerely wanted to respond to everything, but I feel I already have 5x times. I don't want to sound like a broken record (I probably already sound like one). So just reread every response to the same things you keep on saying.
As the previous response states, Grandpa abused HIS free will by having sex with his granddaughter. He abused his free will... To be more explicit, he chose to plant his seed which has the possibility of causing his granddaughter to get pregnant (in which case, she did). You are correct in saying the girl didn't choose to be raped (as rape is involuntary...). The grandfather and granddaughter, IN CONJUNCTION with God (allowing the girl to get pregnant) is what caused her to get pregnant. Could the grandfather and granddaughter conceived a fetus if they never had sex? Yes or no?
Free will has everything to do with the girl getting pregnant. Had the grandfather not abused his free will, the granddaughter would not have gotten pregnant... True or false? If true, then it's completely relative!!! lol
Yikes... I sincerely wanted to respond to everything, but I feel I already have 5x times. I don't want to sound like a broken record (I probably already sound like one). So just reread every response to the same things you keep on saying.
If the baby was born perfectly healthy, if there was, indeed, no harm done, even to the fetus, and the father, instead of losing his "investment" (that is how they regarded the unborn) has only gained a new child, then what was the fine for?
Also... You conveniently left out Numbers 12:12,"Oh, do not let her be like one dead, whose flesh is half eaten away when he comes from his mother's womb!"
It uses "yasa" coming forth" but in reference to something DEAD (a stillborn fetus). Not only does it make contextual sense that the "life for life" law only applies to the mother, it clearly uses the same wording in another bible passage (Numbers 12:12). It's no mistake a dominant majority of scholars agree... it's no mistake the Jews have the same exact interpretation of it.
Also... You conveniently left out Numbers 12:12,"Oh, do not let her be like one dead, whose flesh is half eaten away when he comes from his mother's womb!"
It uses "yasa" coming forth" but in reference to something DEAD (a stillborn fetus). Not only does it make contextual sense that the "life for life" law only applies to the mother, it clearly uses the same wording in another bible passage (Numbers 12:12). It's no mistake a dominant majority of scholars agree... it's no mistake the Jews have the same exact interpretation of it.
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Have to agree with Colorful here. Why the fine? There's a clear distinction. Again I believe it relates to the loss of one child (investment) vs the potential to have any more. If I pick a peach from a tree and destroy it, I've certainly wasted something precious. And I should owe something to the farmer for taking it from him. It doesn't diminish the value of what I've destroyed by saying it would be a GREATER debt if I had taken a match and burned the tree. I've then taken away his ability to bare any fruit at all. Therefor the punishment would be much more severe. I think the hangup everyone here has is that we're seeing the loss of the child in a contractual way, but not the mother. It isn't that the father lost nothing when he lost the child, it's that he losses exponentially MORE if the mother is also taken, and he no longer can have any more children. Or at least that's how I feel when I pray and pour over the words. Also in taking an already established life, he's not only stolen something from the husband, he's taken something from her family and the community as well. This child had no relationship with the community or extended family yet. But the man who accidentally hit the woman did. He has a family to provide for, probably. His parents and neighbors know, love, and maybe even rely on him. So how could they justify the loss of an established life (that of the man) for the loss of a potential life? What if the baby would not have lived at all? Then the man was innocently put to death as there was no "life" for "life". I think the accidental perpetrator is the missing link here. God values the life of that man just as he did that of the mother. And he no doubt values the life of children, but his word also says he doesn't allow the guilty to be acquitted. Therefor, for all we know, this woman's husband attacked this man, she was attempting to stop him, and the man struck her by mistake, at the initial fault of her husband. In that scenario, how on earth could we say he should die for the husband's mistake? The husband here should never have "strived" near his pregnant wife, so couldn't this also be used as a deterrent for the husband? "I suggest you put your differences aside with that man over there, because if something should happen, and your wife were struck, and you lost that child you wanted so badly, all you'd end up with is a measly 10 sheckles... Is it worth it?"
In short, there are many more elements to God's plan than a simple "which is worth more". Thoughts?