I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.

JustinFromTwinCities · Jan 31, 2015

When I look at the Bible all I see is this:

Galatians 5:13-14 "13For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.""

Matthew 22:36 "36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Matthew 7:12
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets."

But apparently, Jesus wasn't speaking of prophets yet to come. He was only speaking of those prophets who had already died. You think He would have mentioned, "There will come a time when the vast majority of my followers will become Satan worshippers. So I will send you another prophet, a woman who will lead a few of you back onto the path of righteousness."

Sylven · Jan 31, 2015

Hello Mitspa
I have been Adventist since I was 15. And even after 30 years, I can not say I agree 100% that EGW was (is) a prophet. That said, the job of a prophet is not to have dreams and visions, but to point Gods people back to him, and stand out against bad doctrine. With that in mind, she did do that. Also look at the works she has done, most translate author, second largest school system, second largest health care system, both next to Catholics. I know from what I have read of her books, she points you back to the Bible. I will be the first to admit, however, some of her "visions" did not come true, and that does bother me. I do not subscribe to the idea of conditional prophesy, especially in light of the second coming like the one you posted about being alive when He comes in the clouds. God said there is a set time, that does not mean we can affect it, it is set by God, and he will come right on time.

haz · Jan 31, 2015

gotime said:

I guess you missed my post then, and I was even keeping to scripture and had said nothing about the false prophet E.G White.

Below is your first reply and my questions, again.

Originally Posted by gotime

Hi haz,
as to Hebrews 10:
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
If we continue to commit a sin after we have received a knowledge of the truth that it is sin then there is no more sacrifice for sins.

Jesus sacrifice only counts for those who repent. turn away.

In other words, If I continue to steal after I have come to a full knowledge of Gods will for me not to steal then there is no sacrifice for my sin. but If I repent and stop stealing in his power then forgiveness is....

I see several problems with what you say.

Sin is transgression of the law (1John 3:4). Hence you are saying through the SDA teaching that Christians are to be judged under the law as whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

But Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
Hence we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law.
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin) to the charge of God's elect?

How do you define willful sin in respect to your point about repentance?
If a Christian was to commit the same sin 500 or so times over a given period and repent each time, is this not willful sin anyway?

What is God's will according to SDA teaching?

Jackson123 · Jan 31, 2015

gotime said:

There have been many posts over the last 24 hours, too many to answer, sorry I don't have that sort of time.

I will say something though that many here seem to miss.

I am of the full opinion that everything I believe as a seventh Day Adventist is of the Bible. I came to my Beliefs From study of the Bible not Ellen White. While I do believe she was a prophet of God, She did not give me my views of the bible. In Fact I came to the Adventist beliefs of the bible before becoming an SDA and before I read anything form Ellen White.

If you were smart you would realize that debating Ellen white is fruitless.

Lets just imagine Ellen White is a false prophet for a second and that you prove this to be the case.

What have you gained? I get my belief from the bible so you have swayed me none. and your refusal to address the scriptures on what we believe suggests that your goal has nothing to do with my soul.

The very first post says lets keep it bible. It is your pride that stops you from conforming to this simple guideline. If you want to speak about Ellen White start your own thread.

Think about this, All Faith and truth comes from the bible. We believe the bible teaches something different to what you believe.

But If we are right and you are wrong then you will Judge Ellen white falsely by false beliefs. Thus disregard the truth by your own error.

So then the bible is the core of the truth, If your views hold any weight then you would need never use Ellen White to make your point but rather the bible. Just as you Don't see SDA's trying to prove their points by quoting Ellen White.

Your prideful persistence in using Ellen White to bash this thread shows that you are not hear for the purpose of this thread, and you are not here to help any SDA see what you believe to be truth. and you are not hear to understand our teachings. so why are you hear?

I will not be answering such posts any more, it is fruitless and outside the purpose of this thread.

I know some of you like to quote the title and then say what you feel it means, but you did not start this thread, read the first post that explains the purpose. If you don't like it then drop your pride of heart and don't come on this thread.

Can you believe the bible and believe EW as a prophet in the same time?

Jackson123 · Jan 31, 2015

Sylven said:

Hello Mitspa
I have been Adventist since I was 15. And even after 30 years, I can not say I agree 100% that EGW was (is) a prophet. That said, the job of a prophet is not to have dreams and visions, but to point Gods people back to him, and stand out against bad doctrine. With that in mind, she did do that. Also look at the works she has done, most translate author, second largest school system, second largest health care system, both next to Catholics. I know from what I have read of her books, she points you back to the Bible. I will be the first to admit, however, some of her "visions" did not come true, and that does bother me. I do not subscribe to the idea of conditional prophesy, especially in light of the second coming like the one you posted about being alive when He comes in the clouds. God said there is a set time, that does not mean we can affect it, it is set by God, and he will come right on time.

Sylva.

If the prophesy not come true than she is not a prophet. It is serious crime to say something from the Lord and not come true.

Bible said it is capital punishment.

p_rehbein · Jan 31, 2015

I am not Seventh Day Adventist, don't ask me

gotime · Jan 31, 2015

haz said:

Well first it is John that says sin is lawlessness/breaking the law.

You can spin it how you want but if you kill you are a sinner no matter what you claim about Jesus.

If you by the Power of Christ through the Holy Spirit stop stealing then you are free.

Repent is to turn from sin, so if they keep doing it then they have not really repented.

As far as Gods will it is glorious.

Sin separated us form God,

Jesus paid for our sins,

and through His blood and the gift of the Spirit we are changed from sinners to saints.

before in the old nature we were slaves to sin and the law condemns us.

But now that Faith has come we are no longer condemned by the law because we are made new and no longer break the law. The law is not against the fruit of the spirit.

sorry wrote this in a hurry so no texts but you and I have spoken of this before.

We teach that Christs sacrifice and life is powerful enough to change us completely. from sinners/lawless people to saints/lawful.

the 10 commandments are promises of Gods power to change our hearts. and this is seen in the fruit of the life.

Those who continue to walk in sin are still slaves to Sin and no one can serve two masters.

there are different reasons for this.

Some just don't know about the power of Christs blood and life.
Some just don't have faith in Gods word concerning Jesus.
Some just love their sin too much to let it go. etc.

haz · Jan 31, 2015

gotime said:

Just a quick reply as I'm short of time right now.

Above you seem to say that anyone who does not obey the law completely is separated from God, being slaves to sin and are condemned by the law, being not free and thus not saints.

So, for example, any Christian who does not obey the Sabbath is therefore separated from God, a slave to sin and condemned by the law and therefore not a saint.

You also allege that anyone who repents but does the same offence over and over again, has not really repented and is thus separated from God, a slave to sin, condemned by the law and not a saint. So you claim that God does not forgive 7x70 as He asks us to do.

Am I understanding you correctly?

Jackson123 · Jan 31, 2015

gotime said:

Well first it is John that says sin is lawlessness/breaking the law.

You can spin it how you want but if you kill you are a sinner no matter what you claim about Jesus.

If you by the Power of Christ through the Holy Spirit stop stealing then you are free.

Repent is to turn from sin, so if they keep doing it then they have not really repented.

As far as Gods will it is glorious.

Sin separated us form God,

Jesus paid for our sins,

and through His blood and the gift of the Spirit we are changed from sinners to saints.

before in the old nature we were slaves to sin and the law condemns us.

But now that Faith has come we are no longer condemned by the law because we are made new and no longer break the law. The law is not against the fruit of the spirit.

sorry wrote this in a hurry so no texts but you and I have spoken of this before.

We teach that Christs sacrifice and life is powerful enough to change us completely. from sinners/lawless people to saints/lawful.

the 10 commandments are promises of Gods power to change our hearts. and this is seen in the fruit of the life.

Those who continue to walk in sin are still slaves to Sin and no one can serve two masters.

there are different reasons for this.

Some just don't know about the power of Christs blood and life.
Some just don't have faith in Gods word concerning Jesus.
Some just love their sin too much to let it go. etc.

How about if one prophecy and not come true, is that not a sin?

gotime · Jan 31, 2015

haz said:

Yes if you sin then you show that you are a slave to sin as it is written:

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

are these not the words of Jesus?

Does the law show sin?

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

and again:
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

So the law is not sin but it points out sin and because we have all sinned it condemns us to death as it is written:

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

and again:

Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

So yes those who sin are slaves to sin and are thus not free. as it is written of the natural nature of man:

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

notice that this person is sold under sin that is a slave to sin and not free, and thus unable to keep Gods law, so rightly one will cry:

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Does not the law lead us unto Christ?

You use the example of the Sabbath and that is good because that is indeed part of Gods 10 commandments and yes Just as with the other nine it is sin to deny Gods Holy Day which He made for all mankind and He blessed and He Set apart as Holy.

As to Repentance You have not understood my correctly thank you for asking.

Forgiveness is always offered to the one who Repents/turns from their sin. but notice the text:

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

its an assumption that the sin is the same sin over and over again. however lets say a person does keep doing the same sin over and over again, Has that person turned/repented?

If I punch you in the face and then say, "please forgive me" and you do then I straight away punch you in the face and proceed to ask for your forgiveness, will you continue to forgive? maybe so but have I repented/turned from punching you in the face? no.

So it is with those who are born again, they no longer do those things that end in death because they have the Spirit of God and the spirit is contrary to the flesh as it is written:

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

notice that they are contrary to one another, now if you do those things listed as works of the flesh are you not carnal?

can bad grapes come from a good tree? can salty water flow from a pure fresh spring? no.

so then if you murder or envy, or get into fight etc are you not carnal. as it is written:

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

You can not be led by the Spirit and do the works of the flesh.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

notice that only those who are led by the spirit are not under law. and those who are led by the spirit do not do the works of the flesh so then those who are led by the Spirit must obey the law thus the law is not against them.

This is not the work of man but he work of God only possible by Faith in His promises. as it is written:

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

I believe in the power of the blood and life of Jesus to free all who will trust in His promises.

hope that helps.

gotime · Feb 1, 2015

Mitspa said:

Good bible text, bad use.

notice the words, "shadow of things to come"

note also that there are a number of Sabbaths in the law, there is the weakly Sabbath and the sacrificial feast Sabbaths.

So which ones are a shadow of things to come? lets look ans see.

Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

here is a Sabbath that is connected to the sacrificial day of atonement. and so on read Leviticus. Now let me ask you did the sacrificial feast days and Sabbaths shadow something?

Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Praise God Jesus is now our sacrifice and High priest and we rest in Him and His work for us.

So yes the feast Sabbaths have been done away with because they were a shadow of things to come. notice also that the Author mentions Meats and drinks why?

Lev 2:1 And when any will offer a meat offering unto the LORD, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:

Lev 23:13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

what about new moons or months?

Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

wow also to do with sacrificial feast

what about holy days?

Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

no surley not all the things mentioned by Paul are found in the ceremonies connected with sacrifices. which Christ fulfilled.

but what about the 7th day Sabbath which is also mentioned in Leviticus. well lets look at what God says the 7th day Sabbath points to shall we.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

why Lord?

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

There we have it the ceremonial Sabbaths pointed forward to Christ but he 7th day Sabbath pointed backward to creation thus proving beyond a doubt that the 7th day Sabbath was not part of what Paul spoke of in Colossians.

gotime · Feb 1, 2015

Is Sabbath important?

some have a problem with our view of Sabbath, lets deal with it from the Scripture.

When did God set the 7th day aside?

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Notice before sin entered the world.

What does the Sabbath teach?

Well Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day, it stands to reason that God spent time with His new creation the next day. So They then also rested but in what? God's works for them in creating the world and them.

The Sabbath is a statement of Gods Character, God is a God who does things for others and lets them rest in what He has done. Is this not the Gospel? The Sabbath reveals that God has always been this way.

gotime · Feb 1, 2015

The Sabbath was not Jewish as it was set aside for Holy use before a Jew existed and Christ clarifies this as it is written:

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

which is an interesting claim because For Jesus to be Lord of the Sabbath the Sabbath must be His.

gotime · Feb 1, 2015

The Sabbath was not Just for before Jesus came as evidenced by the prophetic writings:

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Jesus is the one who revealed the righteousness of God and brought salvation. what is said next?

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Why this instruction for when the salvation of God through Jesus is revealed. why the Sabbath?

Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

So the stranger is included in this call to take hold of Gods covenant and to keep His Sabbath. notice house of prayer for all people.

now take note cause this is important, Gentiles who followed God were allowed in the temple but only to a point in which there was a wall of partition from the Jews who could go right in to worship and pray.

what does God say about this time of his righteousness being revealed? "a house of prayer for "all" people. not just the Jews as is shown in the next verse.

Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

these being the strangers.

now lets look at what Paul says in Ephesians

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Paul addresses the Gentiles called uncircumcision by the Jews. what about them?

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

what "strangers" from the covenant and aliens from citizenship in Israel.

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

praise God that through Jesus blood the Gentiles are now made close, close to what?

well the things they were far from before, namely citizenship in Israel which means they are no longer strangers of the covenants of promise.

Remember what Isaiah prophecies?

Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

notice part of taking hold of Gods covenant is to keep the Sabbath from polluting it.

bet get this, remember how the gentiles were separated in the house of worship in the temple. well notice what Paul says next:

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

wow broken down the partition wall, praise God now Gods house is truly a house of prayer for all people.

So Isaiah prophesied that those Gentiles who keep his Sabbath taking Hold of the Covenant when God reveals himself through Jesus will have names better than sons and daughters.

what a blessing.

gotime · Feb 1, 2015

JustinFromTwinCities said:

wonderful quotes, what is love your neighbour then?

Paul explains it else where:

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

so if we love our neighbour then we sill keep the last 6 commandments.

what about Matthew 22:36-40

They are actually Old testament quotes from the law. as it is written:

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

both concerning the moral law. we have seen clearly from Paul that love your neighbour regards the last 6 commandments and that makes sense.

so hazard a guess what love God has to do with? Yes the first 4 are about loving God.

as to those who are Gods people in the end notice what the bible says:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

wow they keep the commandments and what? what is the Testimony of Jesus Christ that these last day people of God have?

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

So God's last day people keep the commandments, and have the spirit of prophecy.

and just to clarify see the similarity of this verse:

Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

So Gods last day People as described in Revelation both Keep the commandments and are connected to a prophet.

That makes sense because Jesus warned of false prophets, now why warn if there was simply going to be no prophets any more? why test the spirits. could it be because God prophesied that his last Day people will have a prophet?

gotime · Feb 1, 2015

If you study the reformers from the protestant movement you will notice something interesting, different groups started teaching truths that had been lost in the middle ages and each of these truths were seen in the sanctuary of Moses.

For example:

1. the Table of shewbread representing the word of God
The Catholic church was withholding the bible form the common people.

John Wycliffe in the 1300s translated the bible into the common language, the group was called the Lollards.

2. Altar of sacrifice, represents Jesus death.
The Catholic church taught that Jesus death did not cover all sin, but indulgences etc were needed to pay for grace.

Martin Luther (1400-15000s taught that Jesus' death was sufficient and we are saved by grace through faith alone. this gave birth to the Lutheran church.

3. Altar of incense, represents prayer.
The Catholic church taught that we must pray through a priest who intercedes for us. and through saints, mary etc.

John Calvin 1500s had a special burden for prayer, He taught that we can pray straight to the Father through Jesus our High priest. thus the Presbyterian church.

4. Laver represents baptism
The Catholic church tuaght to sprinkle infants for baptism.

The Baptist church was started during the 1600s by people who taught that baptism was for those who were old enough to make a conscious choice to follow God, and that they should be submerged because baptism was a symbol of Jesus' death and resurrection where you are "buried" into His death and raised a new creature.

5. the candlestick represents evangelism through the Spirit, letting our light shine to the world.
The Catholic church had no focus for the people to evangelise.

John Wesley 1700s started a whole load of missionary societies, and taught that everyone is supposed to be spreading the Gospel. The Methodist church was born.

6. Ark of the Covenant represents the law of God in the 10 commandments as contained in the ark.

Catholics changed the law ( they removed the 2nd commandment and changed the wording of the fourth and split the 10th into two). They taught that tradition was more important than direct commands from God.

During the 1800s a group began studying the law of God and came to the conclusion that it is still Gods standard. The Seventh Day Adventist Church was formed and taught the importance of obedience to God along with the truth mentioned above by the other groups.

Its also interesting to note that when the Lollards came about they were called a cult until Luther came out then the Lollards were accepted and the Lutherans were called a cult. then the prebyterian church came and the Lutherans were accepted and the prebyterians were called a cult and so on it goes.

gotime · Feb 1, 2015

It might be of note to also notice what prophetically Satan hates most.

notice in Daniel what the enemy of God does:

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

change times and laws.

Dan 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
Dan 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

attacks the truth of the Sanctuary where the law resides.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

attacks the physical sanctuary also.

Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Sanctuary again.

notice also revelation:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

verse 9 the dragon is Satan and he hates the commandments of God.

are you seeing a common theme here in Satan's attacks?

What about the background of Revelation?

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

the altar of sacrifice and the laver.

Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

The seven branched candlestick.

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

table of shewbread.

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Golden altar of incense.

and last but not least:

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

ark of the covenant.

makes you wonder what is so important about this sanctuary that it is mentioned in the revelation of Jesus Christ ans Satan hates and attack it.

Psa 77:13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
Heb 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

blessings.

jduck1986 · Feb 1, 2015

why do seventh day adventists not believe in eternal hell? sorry if you already answered this. if you already answered it maybe you could link me to the page you answered it on. thanks.

gotime · Feb 1, 2015

jduck1986 said:

Because of what the bible teaches. when you read forever and ever you think always without end. well the words can mean that but they can also mean until its finished. so how do we decide which meaning is true.

that's the easy part,

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

well know verse but let me ask you what does "perish" mean?

Gone, no more. not alive in pain somewhere.

what about this common one:

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

wages of sin is "death" not eternal life in torment. These are literal sayings but many use passages in Revelation and the such that use symbols to explain.

People reduce God to a Nebuchadnezzar who says bow down now or I will throw you in the furnace.

Lets examine the common teaching of hell today.

So we have an all powerful God who punishes those who do not obey Him. This is true His justice demands it.

But why put them in a Horrid place and then perpetuate their life so they can live forever in agony? really. I have seen nothing in the character of God that even comes close to allowing such a thing.

Plus Jesus is our example, did Jesus suffer the wrath of God in our place? yes.

Did he die or go to some burning place?

The wages of sin is death. so after punishment the wicked will die as it is written:

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

notice neither root nor branch will be left, total consuming. what is left ashes.

hope that helps, If you need some bible quotes that show the forever is actually used in the way I mentioned above just ask.

Don't Get me wrong, God will punish before death eventuates. but He gets no joy from it.

jduck1986 · Feb 1, 2015

ok thank you. I've always had trouble believing in an eternal hell so it's interesting to hear what you have to say. That part from malachi is particularly interesting. I too agree it does not seem to match up to God's character.

I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.

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