Tired of the Big LIE

[SeaBass]

DC, what you've shared is a breath of fresh air (and happens to be Gospel Truth).

Thank you, Brother.

There is no truth to eternal security.

Eternal security says salvations is UNCONDITIONAL, that is, a Christian cannot lose salvation under ANY circumstance.

Therefore if salvation is UNCONDITIONAL then a Christian can go and sin unconditionally all the time and never lose his salvation (license to sin). Just as in an earlier post of mine where Baptists preachers argued a Christian could lie, murder commit adultery and never lose his salvation.

Yet if an eternal securists tries to argue a Christian cannot live in sin, then he is making salvation CONDITIONAL upon how the Christian lives.

Many eternal securists try to straddle the fence; on one side they want salvation to be UNconditional but on the other side they try to regulate how a Christian must CONDITIONALLY live to be saved. They cannot have it both ways, either salvation is totally, completely UNCONDITIONAL no matter how much the Christian sins or salvation is CONDITIONAL.

 

[SeaBass]

So dcon lamented a lie spread by some non osas'ers, that osas'ers teach a license to sin. I'll buy that and say that no, osas'ers don't preach such a thing. That is indeed a big lie.

But let's let the pendulum swing to the other side and expose another lie, this time one presented by the osas'ers. That is the lie that those who understand the difference between losing something and giving it away promote fear and a works-based salvation. That is as much a lie as the license to sin claim is.

I can only imagine what God thinks of us liars on both sides.

Eternal securists do not preach eternal security is a license to sin, but that idea is implied in that doctrine whether they preach it or not. See my earlier post (post #6) in this thread with Baptist preacher blatantly saying a Christian has a license to sin and not lose his salvation. Evidently not all eternal securists are not in agreement on this issue.

 

[Sirk]

There is no truth to eternal security.

Eternal security says salvations is UNCONDITIONAL, that is, a Christian cannot lose salvation under ANY circumstance.

Therefore if salvation is UNCONDITIONAL then a Christian can go and sin unconditionally all the time and never lose his salvation (license to sin). Just as in an earlier post of mine where Baptists preachers argued a Christian could lie, murder commit adultery and never lose his salvation.

Yet if an eternal securists tries to argue a Christian cannot live in sin, then he is making salvation CONDITIONAL upon how the Christian lives.

Many eternal securists try to straddle the fence; on one side they want salvation to be UNconditional but on the other side they try to regulate how a Christian must CONDITIONALLY live to be saved. They cannot have it both ways, either salvation is totally, completely UNCONDITIONAL no matter how much the Christian sins or salvation is CONDITIONAL.

When your children "sin" is your acceptance of them "conditional"? Or.....do you teach them and guide them in love? I hope you don't live in as much shame as your view of Jesus and His finished work on the cross suggests.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Really, deductive reasoning leads one to understand and believe the following....

If I can lose my salvation, what must I DO to keep it or gain it back?

So answer the question.....If you can loose salvation, how do you get it back and what must you do...Hebrews teaches it is IMPOSSIBLE to be renewed because you put Christ to OPEN shame while putting him back on the cross.....

If one can lose salvation...Then EVERYONE will cook.....

SO Ricky.....what can you do to regain and or keep salvation if you can lose it.......?

You are completely misusing the context in Hebrews to state that all who lose salvation do to following back to willful sins can not repent and come back to the Lord. Hebrews is only referring to one group of individuals, and that is those who love their sins (darkness) more than the Lord so they refuse to give them up. It says they do themselves harm, by not repented. It does not say that the Lord will refuse to give them the gift of salvation/eternal life if they come back in repentance. Take Revelation 2 for example as they turned from Him to go back to their sinful ways, and what He then tells them;

Revelations 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 

[SeaBass]

When your children "sin" is your acceptance of them "conditional"? Or.....do you teach them and guide them in love? I hope you don't live in as much shame as your view of Jesus and His finished work on the cross suggests.

So you are saying God will continue to UNCONDITIONALLY accept His children no matter how much they sin? That is, God gives them a license to sin and will continue to accept them UNCONDITIONALLY anyway?

 

[Sirk]

So you are saying God will continue to UNCONDITIONALLY accept His children no matter how much they sin? That is, God gives them a license to sin and will continue to accept them UNCONDITIONALLY anyway?

We are free to fail........then get back up move forward and grow. Your focus on this subject is intriguing to me.

 

[royalscot]

Are you still stuck on that false teaching of when it was given to the gentiles matters, and that what the Lord said in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John does not apply to us. Or do we have to literally take and post scripture for you to see how Paul, Peter, James, John, and the writer of Hebrews all confirm everything that the Lord said, as it applies to us as well. Because it is obvious that just giving you the words of the Lord in the Great Commission that says "all nations" are to obey everything He commanded/taught.

are you still stuck, on someone had to tell them about jesus. and when did this take place.

acts 10 send for peter.

when did a new covenant start. when did someone tell a gentile, about jesus. when was a law debated about to give to the gentile.

could ask act 15. to that date 48 ad

acts 2 dated about 32 ad.

 

[Sirk]

We are free to fail........then get back up move forward and grow. Your focus on this subject is intriguing to me.

Additionally, I've yet to see you be vulnerable on this site. It just seems you have all the answers and no questions. I have yet to learn or hear any valuable insight from you.........no offense but your stiffness is unbecoming of someone who claims to follow Jesus.

So you are saying God will continue to UNCONDITIONALLY accept His children no matter how much they sin? That is, God gives them a license to sin and will continue to accept them UNCONDITIONALLY anyway?

 

[dcontroversal]

When your children "sin" is your acceptance of them "conditional"? Or.....do you teach them and guide them in love? I hope you don't live in as much shame as your view of Jesus and His finished work on the cross suggests.

Yeah no doubt...he disowns them, take them back, disowns them, takes them back, disowns then, takes them back....OBLIVIOUS to the fact that they remained his children by birth the whole time...he has trusted Alexander Campbell over the Bible and at the end of the day propagates COC doctrine.....

 

[ThomistColin]

You are completely misusing the context in Hebrews to state that all who lose salvation do to following back to willful sins can not repent and come back to the Lord. Hebrews is only referring to one group of individuals, and that is those who love their sins (darkness) more than the Lord so they refuse to give them up. It says they do themselves harm, by not repented. It does not say that the Lord will refuse to give them the gift of salvation/eternal life if they come back in repentance. Take Revelation 2 for example as they turned from Him to go back to their sinful ways, and what He then tells them;

Revelations 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Thank you for this...it is insightful to the merciful God we have, and undeservedly have. Though we can throw away our faith, He never leaves our side, calling to us to turn back to come home and all shall be forgiven. Truly, truly it makes me weep to know there are those who refuse even then.

 

[kennethcadwell]

are you still stuck, on someone had to tell them about jesus. and when did this take place.

acts 10 send for peter.

when did a new covenant start. when did someone tell a gentile, about jesus. when was a law debated about to give to the gentile.

could ask act 15. to that date 48 ad

acts 2 dated about 32 ad.

I am not stuck on anything when it comes to the gospel as Peter, Paul, and the rest of the Apostles/disciples gave the word out to the Gentiles. And the word they gave is exactly what they were taught by Lord in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and the Holy Spirit leading them to continue in.
The gospel message from Jesus all the way to now did not change from generation to generation. We are called to confirm to His ways, not His gospel words changing for how we live differently in each generation. The gospel message given by our Lord Jesus is the same when He gave to how it is given now!!!

 

[ThomistColin]

Yeah no doubt...he disowns them, take them back, disowns them, takes them back, disowns then, takes them back....OBLIVIOUS to the fact that they remained his children by birth the whole time...he has trusted Alexander Campbell over the Bible and at the end of the day propagates COC doctrine.....

Don't just lay it on Alexander Campbell, there are the Coptics, Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, etc. who believe man can throw away his salvation.

 

[wattie]

Talking about the license to sin.. the reason people who believe in OSAS will say it is not a license to sin is not because a person won't fail after receiving eternal life.. because everyone sins. No one is perfect.

I don't agree with the teaching that a believer will..'persevere until the end'.. that's taking 'he that endureth to the end will be saved' out of context.

But what OSAS person I think is saying when they say it is not a license to sin.. because in the very act of being given eternal life.. they are acknowledging they are a sinner in need of saving.. crying out for salvation.

So then, the natural fruit of this event is not for them to go off and go wayward right away. The fruit of the Holy Spirit dwelling in the person's spirit/soul will be there.

You don't think someone is going to be thankful back to the freedom giver?

This is what I believe OSAS is teaching- security in salvation.. therefore peace, freedom and love are the fruits of that security.

Not that that a believer will always have those things.. because they are imperfect.. but that having security often gives assurance and peace.

What is our 'reasonable faith' in response to being given eternal life?

 

[dcontroversal]

You are completely misusing the context in Hebrews to state that all who lose salvation do to following back to willful sins can not repent and come back to the Lord. Hebrews is only referring to one group of individuals, and that is those who love their sins (darkness) more than the Lord so they refuse to give them up. It says they do themselves harm, by not repented. It does not say that the Lord will refuse to give them the gift of salvation/eternal life if they come back in repentance. Take Revelation 2 for example as they turned from Him to go back to their sinful ways, and what He then tells them;

Revelations 2:5
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

More out of context scripture to teach a heretical dogma....Jesus removing the authority of a New Testament Church has no bearing on the eternal salvation and justification of a believer in Christ......Hebrews is clear and the reason is MOOT...If you can LOSE salvation you cannot get it back.....!

 

[SeaBass]

We are free to fail........then get back up move forward and grow. Your focus on this subject is intriguing to me.

So the Christian can fall into sin but must CONDITIOANLLY "get back up" if he is to be saved?

Eternal Security says the Christian can stay down and wallow in his sins and NEVER under ANY circumstance lose his salvation.

 

[ThomistColin]

More out of context scripture to teach a heretical dogma....Jesus removing the authority of a New Testament Church has no bearing on the eternal salvation and justification of a believer in Christ......Hebrews is clear and the reason is MOOT...If you can LOOSE salvation you cannot get it back.....!

Unless it is God who acts. For God nothing is impossible...I think I remember Jesus saying that.

(By the way...its LOSE salvation...not LOOSE. Pet peeve sorry.)

 

[SeaBass]

Additionally, I've yet to see you be vulnerable on this site. It just seems you have all the answers and no questions. I have yet to learn or hear any valuable insight from you.........no offense but your stiffness is unbecoming of someone who claims to follow Jesus.

...and this personal attack on me does nothing but leave the OP WRONG

 

[dcontroversal]

Don't just lay it on Alexander Campbell, there are the Coptics, Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, etc. who believe man can throw away his salvation.

Yeah and just as wrong as well.....Christ cannot deny himself.....and salvation, justification is based upon the perfect faith of Christ which is ETERNAL......

 

[kennethcadwell]

We are free to fail........then get back up move forward and grow. Your focus on this subject is intriguing to me.

This is true, as one needs to discern between one that backslides here or there and then confesses and repents of that backsliding to be cleansed of it. And the person who continues to constantly continue in willful unrepented/unconfessed sins after they have heard the truth, and even may have accepted for a time being then returned to those ways of darkness. The Lord is not going to give eternal life to somebody who continues to spit in His face !!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Unless it is God who acts. For God nothing is impossible...I think I remember Jesus saying that.

(By the way...its LOSE salvation...not LOOSE. Pet peeve sorry.)

So what...like you never make a typo.........Thanks I corrected my typo.....