Tired of the Big LIE

[RickyZ]

And that is the difference between backsliding and apostasy. Backsliding, you still believe even tho you don't follow, and repentance is available to re-establish your walk with the God you still believe in. Apostasy is the outright rejection of God Himself. And there is no repentance for that.

 

[jkalyna]

sweetie, you wanna go get a nice, hot cup of tea with me? ♥

leaving this particular thread, as it's going, seems like wisdom.

*Oh that sounds very good. Just posted a prayer request, maybe the other day, affected me, you know when the viper bites it's poisons, it affects you, so before I do that in prayer with you, lol spiritually, I will apologize here. Ty for listening to the HOly Spirit, to contact me. *I'm drinking coffee though, lol. hugs.

 

[kennethcadwell]

*Oh that sounds very good. Just posted a prayer request, maybe the other day, affected me, you know when the viper bites it's poisons, it affects you, so before I do that in prayer with you, lol spiritually, I will apologize here. Ty for listening to the HOly Spirit, to contact me. *I'm drinking coffee though, lol. hugs.

Just be careful though because some extremist Christians would say you are sinning for drinking coffee because it is a drug......LOL

 

[Utah]

There is no need to live in torment when it comes to forgetting to ask for forgiveness of sins if one would follow the standards that the bible gives us through David and the Lord. As both give us prayers that covers all sins we commit, knowingly or unknowingly.......


Psalm 19:12-13New King James Version (NKJV)

12 Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse me from secret faults.
13 Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Matthew 6:9-13New King James Version (NKJV)

9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

Amen. Thank you, Ken, for sharing.

 

[jkalyna]

Moreso in regard to the latter, I would think. However, there are warnings in scripture which pertain to those who are hardened by the deceitfulness of sin and that and many other scriptures can and do apply to the former group as well. We all make mistakes, but we need to repent when we do and to bring forth works worthy of repentance.

*True we all make mistakes, and need to repent. I am*truly*sorry if I said anything out of line, and if I offended you. I was deeply hurt the other day, by someone I though I could trust, and just posted a prayer request for it, so I hope you forgive me, thank you, God Bless you. *

 

[kennethcadwell]

And that is the difference between backsliding and apostasy. Backsliding, you still believe even tho you don't follow, and repentance is available to re-establish your walk with the God you still believe in. Apostasy is the outright rejection of God Himself. And there is no repentance for that.

Yes but that rejection of God is shown in the bible that it can happen at different points in ones life, which is why Paul gives strict warnings on continuing in the faith. And the Lord shows us this also in the parable of the sower and the seed, as a couple of the groups walk in the faith for a little then fall away do to trails, tribulations, or deception. Which Paul also confirms can happen, and gives us the epistle to the Galatians for an example of some who walked properly in the gospel then turned away from God do to false teaching leading to be justified by the law.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

*True we all make mistakes, and need to repent. I am*truly*sorry if I said anything out of line, and if I offended you. I was deeply hurt the other day, by someone I though I could trust, and just posted a prayer request for it, so I hope you forgive me, thank you, God Bless you. *

No worries...we're cool.

I never really mind when somebody speaks what they feel at any given moment in time, but I do have somewhat of an invisible line in the sand when it comes to my children and them being unnecessarily and unjustly dragged into any conversation. I love my three children dearly and I've never uttered a single word against them in their entire lives and they would be the first three people on the face of the earth to easily confirm the same. Just so you know, somebody did file totally false charges against me a few years back in relation to my children and I had to appear in court to defend myself for the same. I not only won my case handily, but I could have easily had my accuser arrested and thrown into prison, but I chose to let it go instead.

Anyhow, the past is the past.

Have a great night and I hope that your other situation gets rectified speedily.

Peace.

 

[jkalyna]

*Oh that sounds very good. Just posted a prayer request, maybe the other day, affected me, you know when the viper bites it's poisons, it affects you, so before I do that in prayer with you, lol spiritually, I will apologize here. Ty for listening to the HOly Spirit, to contact me. *I'm drinking coffee though, lol. hugs.

*I am so blessed to be loved by many here, thank you for reaching out to me, and prompted me by your kind words, that the darkness left, and the Lord showed me what to do, after I asked for prayer, the heaviness broke, and I felt it go from me. I thank you Father for this website. Please meet it's needs, and bless everyone, keep us all safe, and in good health, and let the words of my mouth, and the meditations of my heart be pleasing unto thee oh lord, bible verse. Ty all. God is*faithful, he will not*abandon*us, nor leave us in our distress. Psychomom there's tears coming down my cheeks, the breaking of the scar of hurt, Jesus is removing it.*

 

[jkalyna]

No worries...we're cool.

I never really mind when somebody speaks what they feel at any given moment in time, but I do have somewhat of an invisible line in the sand when it comes to my children and them being unnecessarily and unjustly dragged into any conversation. I love my three children dearly and I've never uttered a single word against them in their entire lives and they would be the first three people on the face of the earth to easily confirm the same. Just so you know, somebody did file totally false charges against me a few years back in relation to my children and I had to appear in court to defend myself for the same. I not only won my case handily, but I could have easily had my accuser arrested and thrown into prison, but I chose to let it go instead.

Anyhow, the past is the past.

Have a great night and I hope that your other situation gets rectified speedily.

Peace.

*Thank you for your forgiveness.

 

[RickyZ]

Yes but that rejection of God is shown in the bible that it can happen at different points in ones life, which is why Paul gives strict warnings on continuing in the faith. And the Lord shows us this also in the parable of the sower and the seed, as a couple of the groups walk in the faith for a little then fall away do to trails, tribulations, or deception. Which Paul also confirms can happen, and gives us the epistle to the Galatians for an example of some who walked properly in the gospel then turned away from God do to false teaching leading to be justified by the law.

I'm not sure where the but comes in. One can accept Christ at any point in life, one can backslide from that at any point in life (post acceptance of course), and one can reject Christ at any point in life. Backsliders can find repentance at any point in life. Outright rejecters, not so much. That blaspheme is the one thing you can't come back from at any time.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

*Thank you for your forgiveness.

You're welcome and I apologize if I was disrespectful to you in any manner or form as well.

Seriously, we're beyond cool and I wish you nothing but the best in this life and in the world to come.

 

[psychomom]

*I am so blessed to be loved by many here, thank you for reaching out to me, and prompted me by your kind words, that the darkness left, and the Lord showed me what to do, after I asked for prayer, the heaviness broke, and I felt it go from me. I thank you Father for this website. Please meet it's needs, and bless everyone, keep us all safe, and in good health, and let the words of my mouth, and the meditations of my heart be pleasing unto thee oh lord, bible verse. Ty all. God is*faithful, he will not*abandon*us, nor leave us in our distress. Psychomom there's tears coming down my cheeks, the breaking of the scar of hurt, Jesus is removing it.*

all glory to the King! ♥

 

[RickyZ]

You're welcome and I apologize if I was disrespectful to you in any manner or form as well.

Seriously, we're beyond cool and I wish you nothing but the best in this life and in the world to come.

I absolutely love it when I see the Lord's family let go of the debate and just be one with each other.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

I absolutely love it when I see the Lord's family let go of the debate and just be one with each other.

Who's got a guitar?

I kind of feel like joining hands and singing Kumbaya right about now...

 

[dcontroversal]

No holding something against somebody also means that you do not stop making false allegations against them to.
If you keep stating the same fallacies toward a person then that means you hold that against them. And yes I do believe one can lose salvation, because the bible and the early church leaders teach the same. As it states in the bible that only those who continue in the faith are given eternal life. It nowhere in the bible says a person can walk away from God, and keep eternal life. It even states that those who are disobedient are worse then unbelievers, and will be appointed with the unbelievers in the lake of fire.

Yes Galatians 2 does say that, that our salvation is based upon the faith in Jesus.....not faith of Jesus....

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.


You are right the Lord our God never fails, but people can fail Him by not obeying, walking in love (Spirit), and denying Him by not following His teachings, commands, and helping others. And if you fail Him in disobedience then that one will not receive eternal life, but placed with the unbelievers in the lake of fire (Luke 12:46).

I suggest you read further......

Galatians 2:16

Knowing that a man is not JUSTIFIED by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS Christ, even we have believed IN JESUS CHRIST, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law..

VS 20....I am crucified with CHRIST: nevertheless I LIVE; yet not I, but CHRIST LIVETH IN ME: and the life that I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF the SON OF GOD....

I again suggest you start reading and ACKNOWLEDGING the TRUTH.......

 

[dcontroversal]

DC, can a person who had faith in what Jesus did on the cross, then lose faith in what Jesus did on the cross and walk away from God and never return and die in their unbelief?

Are you stating that a Man like Charles Templeton was OSAS? despite the fact he publicly disavowed his faith in what Jesus did on the cross and rejected him?

I do not believe a person can lose their salvation based on not doing Christian works. tthat is works based salvation and nothing more than self righteousness and sin conciseness false doctrine.

I do believe that a person can do what Templeton did and you better believe he died in his unbelief and is now in hell, because he once believed he was saved by God's grace through his own faith, but his faith became shipwrecked and he lost it. His last book is titled: Farewell to God: My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith.


I believe Templeton is proof positive of what the author of Heb 6.4-6 was telling us:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

IN summary, I do not believe in works based salvation or the salvation is a set of conditional works I must do to claim it. I believe we are saved by God's grace through our faith and that Jesus work on the cross and nothing= everything.

I do believe a son or daughter of God can walk away from salvation and lose their faith and if not won back will die in unbelief....Jesus told us unbelief in him is the unpardonable sin. Romans 10.9-10 tell us this as well.

The Bible shows us in very stunning detail, that unbelief and lack of faith in the Redemptive work Christ did on the cross is a sum zero game.

God's grace stops at unbelief, because without faith it is impossible to please Him.....period.

Works based conditional salvation predicated upon personal performance is a lie straight from hell as is OSAS.....walking away from your faith and cursing the redemptive work Jesus did on the cross is as Jesus stated to the pharisees....the unpardonable SIN.

I believe the following......

Galatians 2:16-21 states clearly that my salvation and justification is based upon the FAITH OF JESUS....

Is the faith of JESUS perfect? YES
Is the faith of Jesus ETERNAL? YES
Does the faith of JESUS ever fail? NO
Is the FAITH of JESUS acceptable unto the FATHER? YES
Does the faith of JESUS meet the Father's expectations? YES

I am SAVED by the PERFECT FAITH of JESUS....I am JUSTIFIED by the perfect faith of JESUS

To say you can lose salvation is to deny the above concerning the faith of JESUS.....

That is my view, it cannot be changed, will not be changed and is in accordance with the BIBLE!

1. A child of God will not live a continual lifestyle of sin
2. The spirit is that which is born of God, eternally sealed, saved and justified
3. People who walk away and never return were probably never saved to begin with

 

[kennethcadwell]

I suggest you read further......

Galatians 2:16

Knowing that a man is not JUSTIFIED by the works of the law, but by the FAITH OF JESUS Christ, even we have believed IN JESUS CHRIST, that we might be justified by the FAITH OF CHRIST, and not by the works of the law..

VS 20....I am crucified with CHRIST: nevertheless I LIVE; yet not I, but CHRIST LIVETH IN ME: and the life that I now live in the flesh I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF the SON OF GOD....

I again suggest you start reading and ACKNOWLEDGING the TRUTH.......

Thanks but I have read it many times, and prayed to the Holy Spirit and read many of many commentaries on Galatians 2:16 because pretty much only the KJV derived versions say faith of Jesus Christ, and the rest all say faith in Jesus Christ. And when I studied up on this passage the reason for the difference in of and in is because the exact context of this scripture is our faith is to mirror that of how the Lord walked. Walk in love, obedience, forgiveness, and mercy as our faith in Him is a mirror of faith of Him. The context driven from our faith guided by the Holy Spirit should mirror what He said in the gospel books, if not then our faith is not lead by the Holy Spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

Thanks but I have read it many times, and prayed to the Holy Spirit and read many of many commentaries on Galatians 2:16 because pretty much only the KJV derived versions say faith of Jesus Christ, and the rest all say faith in Jesus Christ. And when I studied up on this passage the reason for the difference in of and in is because the exact context of this scripture is our faith is to mirror that of how the Lord walked. Walk in love, obedience, forgiveness, and mercy as our faith in Him is a mirror of faith of Him. The context driven from our faith guided by the Holy Spirit should mirror what He said in the gospel books, if not then our faith is not lead by the Holy Spirit.

Whatever.....I could prove it by the language and you would still reject because it contradicts your theology....so trust your works Kenneth and your own theology from commentaries.....no biggie to me!

 

[kennethcadwell]

I'm not sure where the but comes in. One can accept Christ at any point in life, one can backslide from that at any point in life (post acceptance of course), and one can reject Christ at any point in life. Backsliders can find repentance at any point in life. Outright rejecters, not so much. That blaspheme is the one thing you can't come back from at any time.

Everybody even the most vial sinners by our standards can come to repentance while they are still in the flesh; If they want to !!!

We are not called to take that chance away from anybody as that would be placing a judgment call on one's life, which we are not to do. The but comes in because the bible says a believer can return to willful sins and not end up with eternal life, but face judgment and the second death. Remember and I will post this again that James is speaking to believers here;

James 1:15
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Thanks but I have read it many times, and prayed to the Holy Spirit and read many of many commentaries on Galatians 2:16 because pretty much only the KJV derived versions say faith of Jesus Christ, and the rest all say faith in Jesus Christ. And when I studied up on this passage the reason for the difference in of and in is because the exact context of this scripture is our faith is to mirror that of how the Lord walked. Walk in love, obedience, forgiveness, and mercy as our faith in Him is a mirror of faith of Him. The context driven from our faith guided by the Holy Spirit should mirror what He said in the gospel books, if not then our faith is not lead by the Holy Spirit.

If I'm reading this right, then the "of" isn't even in the underlying Greek:

Galatians 2:16 Interlinear: having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by

^^^THAT^^^ is a link that needs to be clicked on...