Tired of the Big LIE

[dcontroversal]

When you say it like this it makes me think you sin all the time with no actual remorse. For you are agreeing with a person (i.e. Poster: Utah) in sinning while they dream (Which I believe is wrong). I mean, you act like they have no power when they dream so they should just give into it. But you know who can change that right? Jesus Christ. If you are a slave to sin in your dreams and in your life, Jesus Christ can set you free from that. You no longer have to be a slave to your sin. Both while you are awake and while you dream. Now, does that mean you are going to be perfect and sinless every second for the rest of your life? No. What this means is that you will not habitually sin as a way of life. There is a difference. For David sinned against God by committing murder and adultery. But David did not continue to murder and commit adultery as if it was a way of life for him. David repented of those sins. David was not perfect, but David was a man after God's own heart, though. Are you a man after God's own heart? How can you say you love God and yet also appear to hate your brothers (i.e. other believers)? Are we not to pray for our enemies and to do good unto them?

First of all I hate no one...
Second you read in all the time misconstrued ideas that I have not promoted or stated
Third to be a brother in Christ you actually have to teach the truth...you teach you can lose salvation...that is false

Two cannot walk together unless they be agreed......

Galatians<---FAITH plus works for salvation = heresy, double cursed gospel of a different kind with no power to save

Being BORN of INCORRUPTABLE SEED<-----ETERNAL LIFE, EVERLASTING LIFE not temporary.....!

 

[KJV1611]

Yes, it is written to Christians trying to wrongfully keep the Law. Paul is recounting his experience as a Jew to help them. Read the first few verses. Paul addresses them as those who know the Law. This is speaking to Messianic Jews who are still holding onto the Law. Paul's solution is simply just Jesus Christ alone. For it is by Jesus Christ and walking after the Spirit whereby there is no Condemnation.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
The law has dominion over a man his entire life.


Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
The woman which has a husband is bound to her husband as long as her husband lives, but if the husband dies, she is free.
The woman is you... your husband is the law. Christ nailed the law to the cross. Your husband is now dead, you're free to marry a new husband Christ.


Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
If the husband still lives and she marries another, she's called an adultress.
You are trying to keep your husband alive... you still want to please God through your own works and still claim Christ. That is called spiritual adultery.

My husband is dead... I don't try to please God through my works. I am free to marry another man and enjoy peace and happiness that comes from His righteousness.

Romans 7 has nothing to do with keeping the law, it's about being freed from the law. And even though I'm free from the law, sin still dwells in this human body. But it is no longer me that sins, it's sin that dwells in this body that continues to sin.

 

[Utah]

You are admitting that you will be guilty of sin in the future. God's Word says be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. But yet you are planning on not being perfect --- which is a direct violation of Scripture. For Scripture says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Jesus says that the Lukewarm servant will be spewed out of his mouth. Meaning, they have a lukewarm sense of morality. Jesus would prefer a person be either hot or cold. Meaning, he would prefer people to be righteous or unrighteous and not somewhere inbetween thinking they can serve two kingdoms. But Jesus says no man can serve two masters, though. For if you truly love the Lord, sin will be put out of your life in time. One will not say they will expect to sin again. That is wrong. We never plan on sinning again. Nor do we give up hope in the fact that God can perfect us.

Matthew 5:48 "Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect."
Luke 6:36 "Be merciful as your Heavenly Father is merciful."

Jesus is talking about loving our enemies, not living a perfect life which no one can do.

I'm not lukewarm and I don't serve two masters, I am simply honest and humble enough with God and myself to know I am a sinner. If I took barbiturates and imposed solitary confinement upon myself for the rest of my earthly life then perhaps I would live a sinless life, but then I would not be taking part in the Great Commission.

So which is it? A medicated, sinless life in solitary confinement, never to witness to anyone again, or live amongst society bringing people to Christ, but knowing the inherent crap that comes within society will at times bring forth sin in my life? I already know what you're going to say.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I quit worrying about sin when I finally understood Romans 7. I don't sin any more, if I sin it's not me that sins, it's the sin that dwells in me. I have truly ceased from my works and entered into His rest... Y'all should try it, it's pretty nice!

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Why stay in that situation? The solution to sin dwelling in us is had in chapter 8. Remember there were no chapter divisions originally, so the message continues on to victory. Here's the "rest of the story"...Romans 7:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

There's the hope God won't leave us wallowing in sin in your temple the Holy Spirit wants to occupy.

Romans 8:1-8 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rather than put up with sin still roaming around in you, Jesus delivers us from that sin, condemns it. It has to go. Never take the old law of sin and death up again, else sin returns, making a person carnal, not pleasing God.

 

[KJV1611]

Why stay in that situation? The solution to sin dwelling in us is had in chapter 8. Remember there were no chapter divisions originally, so the message continues on to victory. Here's the "rest of the story"...Romans 7:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

There's the hope God won't leave us wallowing in sin in your temple the Holy Spirit wants to occupy.

Romans 8:1-8 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rather than put up with sin still roaming around in you, Jesus delivers us from that sin, condemns it. It has to go. Never take the old law of sin and death up again, else sin returns, making a person carnal, not pleasing God.

Verse 25 is your answer. So then with the mind (spirit) I serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Your physical body is not spiritual... it can't walk in the spirit. In your mind is the only way you can walk in the spirit... flesh can't do it.

 

[Utah]

When you say it like this it makes me think you sin all the time with no actual remorse. For you are agreeing with a person (i.e. Poster: Utah) in sinning while they dream (Which I believe is wrong). I mean, you act like they have no power when they dream so they should just give into it.

This is our misunderstanding. I do have remorse; I have said that time and again. When I say I am a sinner, I'm not thumping my chest like a prideful gang banger in an MTV video, quite the contrary, I'm showing myself to the world as openly and honestly as I can. I'm a sinner; a remorseful sinner; a forgiven sinner who, in my forgiveness, rejoices!!! I am a work in progress, and God loves me. Why would I not rejoice and give thanks and praise.

But you never look at it that way. You throw people under the bus at your leisure rather than seeing things as God sees them. Here's a fact; I remember dreaming once that I used the Lord's name in vain. I woke up in a sweat and was sick at heart. I prayed, asking God to forgive me and protect me. Was there any grace on your part? No there wasn't. Look at your response above. Pretty damn sickening. Thank God He understands, and forgives.

 

[wolfwint]

Dear brothers, living 25 years without The Lord, became then a christian, because he opend my eyes for my sin. Visitet a mennonite bretheren church, which became my spiriturll home. went then to an from canadian and swizer foundet biblecollege. Met christians from different backgrounds. And also the discussion loosing salvation ore eternal safed became a matter.
Our teacher, an american. Told us that it is useless to discuss about this. Because it will splitt christians. As we can read in the scripure we can find both positions. I suppose all the useres of this threat want to follow the Lord. If you want to do that, for what then discussing about this.
Nobody will convince the other. And to judge each other will help nobody. We would vasting only our time. Have a blessed dax

 

[newbirth]

This is our misunderstanding. I do have remorse; I have said that time and again. When I say I am a sinner, I'm not thumping my chest like a prideful gang banger in an MTV video, quite the contrary, I'm showing myself to the world as openly and honestly as I can. I'm a sinner; a remorseful sinner; a forgiven sinner who, in my forgiveness, rejoices!!! I am a work in progress, and God loves me. Why would I not rejoice and give thanks and praise.

But you never look at it that way. You throw people under the bus at your leisure rather than seeing things as God sees them. Here's a fact; I remember dreaming once that I used the Lord's name in vain. I woke up in a sweat and was sick at heart. I prayed, asking God to forgive me and protect me. Was there any grace on your part? No there wasn't. Look at your response above. Pretty damn sickening. Thank God He understands, and forgives.

God called us to be saints and commands us through the apostles not to sin...you have a different version...scripture says there is remission of sins when we receive Christ and cleansing of all unrighteousness when we abide in Christ and confess our sins....why then do you still have sins...do you not know how to confess and be forgiven??????if you are forgiven, was it from all unrighteousness or some..if it was all where did you get those sins from???and why not get rid of them in the same manner????....God says follow the spirit and you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh....why do you still fulfil the lust of the flesh...it is because you do not follow the spirit...those who practice righteousness are righteous .....those who practice sin are sinners....those in the world practice sin those in Christ does not sin....are you in the world or are you in Christ....????

 

[newbirth]

Verse 25 is your answer. So then with the mind (spirit) I serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Your physical body is not spiritual... it can't walk in the spirit. In your mind is the only way you can walk in the spirit... flesh can't do it.

but it can follow after the Spirit..... you use your mind to control the flesh...if you follow the Spirit in your mind you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh in the body...this is how we know the children of God...they bring their body under subjection to the renewed mind which obeys the Spirit of Christ...

 

[KJV1611]

God called us to be saints and commands us through the apostles not to sin...you have a different version...scripture says there is remission of sins when we receive Christ and cleansing of all unrighteousness when we abide in Christ and confess our sins....why then do you still have sins...do you not know how to confess and be forgiven??????if you are forgiven, was it from all unrighteousness or some..if it was all where did you get those sins from???and why not get rid of them in the same manner????....God says follow the spirit and you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh....why do you still fulfil the lust of the flesh...it is because you do not follow the spirit...those who practice righteousness are righteous .....those who practice sin are sinners....those in the world practice sin those in Christ does not sin....are you in the world or are you in Christ....????

So how long has it been since the last time you sinned?

 

[KJV1611]

but it can follow after the Spirit..... you use your mind to control the flesh...if you follow the Spirit in your mind you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh in the body...this is how we know the children of God...they bring their body under subjection to the renewed mind which obeys the Spirit of Christ...

That's not what Paul said. He said his flesh serves the law of sin. What do you know that Paul doesn't know?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

but it can follow after the Spirit..... you use your mind to control the flesh...if you follow the Spirit in your mind you will not fulfil the lust of the flesh in the body...this is how we know the children of God...they bring their body under subjection to the renewed mind which obeys the Spirit of Christ...

Amen.

Ephesians chapter 4

[17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
[20] But ye have not so learned Christ;
[21] If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
[22] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
[23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[24] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

That's not what Paul said. He said his flesh serves the law of sin. What do you know that Paul doesn't know?

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

He knows what he and others have already sought to explain to you. That the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus SET PAUL FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. In Romans chapter 7, Paul was speaking of his PRE-salvation condition. For crying out loud, man, learn how to read. He had just finished explaining how that sin shall not have dominion over anybody who is truly under grace and then you think that he went on to explain how sin had dominion over him?

You people need a lot of help.

 

[newbirth]

Romans 7 has nothing to do with keeping the law, it's about being freed from the law. And even though I'm free from the law, sin still dwells in this human body. But it is no longer me that sins, it's sin that dwells in this body that continues to sin.

how can you be free from the law and still have sin dwelling in you???if the body continues to sin you are not free from the law...the law condemns all sin...If God forgave you of your sins and gave you power over sins...when you sin it is because you are obeying the flesh...you have given sin power over you when you succumb to it....
Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

 

[KJV1611]

He knows what he and others have already sought to explain to you. That the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus SET PAUL FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. In Romans chapter 7, Paul was speaking of his PRE-salvation condition. For crying out loud, man, learn how to read. He had just finished explaining how that sin shall not have dominion over anybody who is truly under grace and then you think that he went on to explain how sin had dominion over him?

You people need a lot of help.

So when Paul says that he delights in the law of God after the inward man, he is speaking of his PRE-salvation condition?

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

 

[Jeff_56]

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Children, guard yourselves against false gods! "

1 John 5 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

19 We know that we are from God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the Evil One.

---------------------------------------------------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ wherever you work,live,visit


lies in the power of the evil one. not a safe world. no place to go to be free of temptation, lies, greed, oppression.


false gods. the world , even the churches, are full of them. the homes of many multitudes of 'christians' too.


"bad company corrupts good morals" ----- most all the company available, family, friends, workers, co-workers, is bad --


thus the strict, severe, serious warning in God's Word comparing today to the days of noah when all but 8 died for their sin.


the church or other religion or group you (plural, public, general to everyone) fellowship with, grew up with, live with, ever saw,
is in and of the world, with almost no exception anywhere. to be and belong to CHRIST JESUS is different than them whoever they are in most places on earth.

realize that the believers in the OT and in the NT are told to not commit idolatry, to never seek nor study other gods or nations.
they are all told to not commit adultery, to not steal, to not desire things that are not their own, to never bear false witness.



Jesus didn't make it any easier. no , he didn't. the rich young man is infamous -because he did all these things , and

Jesus says it isn't enough.

Cornelius did all these things also, and still for a while at least had the use of home, soldiers, wealth, and so on....

but he turned it all over to Jesus, every bit. like the others who were immersed in yahshua did.

like Jesus said to every disciple was necessary.

like corrie ten boom did. (a few years ago, for the rest of her life). everything sanctified, holy, set apart in her life.

like some amish or mennonite or hutterite or anabaptist groups may do --- hold all things in common, declaring nothing as their own.

they are closer in the way of life to Jesus than most all other groups. remember God says to live a holy life - never a worldly life. it's not an option.

over a billion people on earth are members in chruches that NEVER obey Jesus.

you(plural,reader - visitor - member) might be in one of those chruches. if so, they will NEVER tell you the truth.

so how will you ever know ?

 

[Bookends]

The bible is clear, one must be in Christ (Paul) or abide in Christ (John) to have eternal security. If one does not remain in Christ, then whatever their previous condition does not matter, they are not saved and can't be sure.

Paul seems to think that once a gentile is grafted into the cultivated olive tree (family of God through Christ Jesus), they could be cut off again. Why deny it.

Hebrews 11
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either

 

[KJV1611]

how can you be free from the law and still have sin dwelling in you???if the body continues to sin you are not free from the law...the law condemns all sin...If God forgave you of your sins and gave you power over sins...when you sin it is because you are obeying the flesh...you have given sin power over you when you succumb to it....
Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
The things I do I don't allow... i have no control over them, whether good or bad. The things I want to do are the things I don't do. I do the things that I hate.

Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
If I do the things I don't want to do, then I agree with God that the law is good.


Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
If I agree in my mind (even though my body is against me), that the law of God is good, then it is no longer I that do those things, it's sin that dwells in this flesh body.

Does that help?

 

[KJV1611]

The bible is clear, one must be in Christ (Paul) or abide in Christ (John) to have eternal security. If one does not remain in Christ, then whatever their previous condition does not matter, they are not saved and can't be sure.

Paul seems to think that once a gentile is grafted into the cultivated olive tree (family of God through Christ Jesus), they could be cut off again. Why deny it.

Hebrews 11
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either

So what keeps us in Christ?

 

[JesusistheChrist]

So when Paul says that he delights in the law of God after the inward man, he is speaking of his PRE-salvation condition?

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Yes.

An unregenerate person can hear God's commandments and delight in the same and even attempt to keep the same, but they will never be able to do so until the time comes that they are genuinely "born again" or born of the Spirit. God is Spirit (John 4:24) and His law is spiritual (Romans 7:14), but there is no way that a man who has only a circumcision in the foreskin of his flesh can obey a Spirit God or His spiritual law...and such was the struggle that Paul was describing in relation to his PRE-salvation condition. Once somebody is "circumcised in the spirit" (Romans 2:29), things change.