Tired of the Big LIE
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Not according to what others said here. They said you will never be perfect. You will always sin every day is what they are saying. Many have attempted to justify their own actions by asking me if I commit sins every day. I told them I don't commit sins that lead unto death as a way of life (or habitually). This is important to understand because Jesus says be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. They that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. This verse does not speak of some future event. It is speaking in the present tense. They that belong to Christ have crucified the affections and lusts now. This does not mean that every believer will never sin ever again. John says in 1 John 2:1 that such a thing is a reality for the believer. However, what this means that they will not live a life of habitual sin. For the affections and lusts have been crucified. Not tomorrow but now. For he that committeth sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8); And whosever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (1 John 3:9). This is speaking of habitual sin as a way of life obviously because many of the great saints have sinned; However, they did not habitually sin as a way of life, though. That is what 1 John 3 is talking about. Anyways, whosever does not righteousness is not of God, nether he that loves not his brother (1 John 3:10). I see a lot of people here trying to condone unrighteousness or in the fact that they sin every day and it is okay to God. But Scripture says he that does not righteousness (Which is obviously speaking as a way of life) is not of God. I also see many folks here trying to attack me verbally as a fellow brother instead of addressing the verses I bring up. To me it is hateful act to attack me personally and call me names instead of talking about Scripture with respect. In fact, if we continue reading in 1 John 3, it says he that hateth his brother is a murder and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. In other words, OSAS cannot twist these verses to say something different. If you were to just read these passages plainly and believe them there is no room for OSAS.
This is not the first time somebody has falsely labeled what I believe. I do not believe in Works Salvationism. I believe works follow salvation. Holiness and fruitful works is always the natural result of having God living within you (Who is the source of salvation). Jesus says, if you love me, keep my commandments. Meaning, when a person sees that they have failed to measure up to God's commands, they will repent of their sins and accept Him as their Savior. Then God will do the work within them (with them yielding to the Lord). Ezekiel essentially says I will put my Spirit within you so that you can keep my statutes. So it is not Works Salvationism. It is God's grace working in you. But if there is no change or evidence that a person has not been born again by the fact that they do not love or by the fact that they commit sins that lead unto death as a way of life, ,then they are not saved. Sin has always separated man from God. It's what happened in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. Why do you think it is any different now? Do you think God is a respecter of persons?
I do not understand how you can say that there are licentious people and yet you are defending those who believe in such a way. Many here believe they can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved. Being out of fellowship with God is no doubt due to their sinful lifestyle. For if a person is walking in the Light as he is in the Light, then why would God abandon them? Well, the only reason I can see is that they would be trusting in their own Light and not Christ's Light for salvation. However, the fact that you have sided with people who have openly admitted to being immoral lets me know that you really do not believe Antinomianism is false (Even though you are saying such a thing). For we are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are to rather, reprove them. For someone here has said they sin every day but yet sin does not control them. How does that make sense? How is that statement not immoral? Do you agree with them?
Also, you said before that "Forsaking sin" is a legalistic term. How so? Jesus said to the woman caught in the act of adultery to sin no more. Was Jesus being legalistic in saying that? For Jesus was essentially telling the woman to forsake sin. If Jesus was not telling the woman to forsake sin, then what do you think Jesus was saying then to the woman?
S
Sirk
Guest
haha. Thanks for the chuckle this morning. I'll ask you again. Is it possible for a man to be completely selfless and altruistic? All I need is one example. Shouldn't be hard for a sinless man such as yourself. Don't worry, we won't think you're "boasting".
when someone enlisted or was conscripted into the nazi army, they did what they were told. it didn't matter if they wanted to or not - they did what they were told. it didn't matter what was right or wrong in their sight, they did what they were told.
if they didn't do what they were told, they were shot.
every now and then, a member in the nazi army did something they were not told. they were shot.
every now and then, a member in the nazi army did something they were not told, and they weren't 'caught'.
schindler as in schindler's list is a good example. he saved many Jews from execution. and maybe some christians.
it was reported that after the war he wept openly because he had kept his car instead of selling it during the war.
he realized he could have saved 12 more Jews if he had sold the car. (the costs involved in rescuing each Jew was well known (including DEATH IF CAUGHT) ) .
schindler was perfect. he did exactly what he could do in the time and the place he lived and worked,
to help the most people survive. with hindsight he realized he could have done more and better - a lot of people find this out themselves in their lives, if they survive.
if they didn't do what they were told, they were shot.
every now and then, a member in the nazi army did something they were not told. they were shot.
every now and then, a member in the nazi army did something they were not told, and they weren't 'caught'.
schindler as in schindler's list is a good example. he saved many Jews from execution. and maybe some christians.
it was reported that after the war he wept openly because he had kept his car instead of selling it during the war.
he realized he could have saved 12 more Jews if he had sold the car. (the costs involved in rescuing each Jew was well known (including DEATH IF CAUGHT) ) .
schindler was perfect. he did exactly what he could do in the time and the place he lived and worked,
to help the most people survive. with hindsight he realized he could have done more and better - a lot of people find this out themselves in their lives, if they survive.
when christians enlist in the church, they don't have to do anything in some churches. some chruches are anti-christ and heresy (most on earth if the roman abomination is included).
for some (fake) churches, they demand a copy of your tax/income papers before you can become a member, and if you don't make enough, you can't be a member.
other (fake) churches, you can go drink and party and flirt and gamble and , if you're an employer, not pay the workers their due money,
then come in on sunday and pay to be forgiven and get patted on the back, then go out and do it again
next week.
for some (fake) churches, they demand a copy of your tax/income papers before you can become a member, and if you don't make enough, you can't be a member.
other (fake) churches, you can go drink and party and flirt and gamble and , if you're an employer, not pay the workers their due money,
then come in on sunday and pay to be forgiven and get patted on the back, then go out and do it again
next week.
but again I say to you Jason: because someone says they believe and trust God's grace, that does not mean they think it is o.k. to live however, do what ever. you are making a connection that is not there. just because someone uses a different term or different words than you does not make them wrong.
S
Sirk
Guest
schindlers initial motivation was for profit. Not to say that what he did wasn't awesome....just proof that God uses our imperfection to show His perfection.
they are also churches and denominations that say you can't watch t.v., have a tattoo, go to ballgame, have a beer, wear certain kinds of clothes, can't watch a movie, etc.. these are as fake as the ones you mentioned.
S
Sirk
Guest
why some are so argumentative and wooden in their religion is just such a foreign concept to me.
P
psychomom
Guest
Just look at the apostle's lives. They lived their lives in self sacrifice and service to the Lord. Did some of them commit sins after being a believer? Yes. But they did not live a self centered or sinful life, though. Therein lies the difference.
If I am understanding you correctly, why you think true believers can get away with sinning habitually as a way of life with the thinking they are saved is foreign to me and foreign to Scripture.
Last edited:
S
Sirk
Guest
not really....the difference lies in having faith in Christ. The fact is that you cannot be completely selfless or altruistic because you have your flesh to contend with and you sin when you don't know you sin.
S
Sirk
Guest
God chooses to reveal and to conceal.....and I never said habitually and as a way of life. You're making up things......dare I say....bearing false witness against me?
this is the point. most posters are members of groups that the apostles and disciples would go and preach the gospel to. or they could perhaps, if God sent them.
then, after a time, if the apostles and disciples were rejected, (like when paul was rejected by the Jews),
they would simply
go somewhere else. the Jews, and the gentiles, and the churches, all have received the appropriate warnings.
if they repent and turn to God , and forsake their self life, their selfishness, and their pagan practices,
then they have a chance to learn more from scripture.
if they don't repent and don't turn to God, if they just continue living in their delusion, then that's what they do.
each person that is given the choice by God to turn to Him to receive help in time of need,
or
to stay away from Him because they love their worldly lives and don't want to change.
God knows. no one gets away with anything before Him.
What do you mean not really? Are you saying the apostles did not live selfless lives in service to Jesus? What verses even imply that?
S