The continued walking is necessary for Christ's blood to continue to cleanse away all sin. Christians do sin, 1 Jn 1:8, so the walking is necessary for the sins to be cleansed away. If ones sins had all been forgiven, past present and future upon initially becoming a Christian, then there would be no need for the Christian to continue to walk in the light to cleanse away sins that do not exist for they were already cleansed away in the past.
Did the LORD Violate Human Free Will???
- Thread starter Atwood
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The continued walking is necessary for Christ's blood to continue to cleanse away all sin. Christians do sin, 1 Jn 1:8, so the walking is necessary for the sins to be cleansed away. If ones sins had all been forgiven, past present and future upon initially becoming a Christian, then there would be no need for the Christian to continue to walk in the light to cleanse away sins that do not exist for they were already cleansed away in the past.
No, 1 John 2:3-6 says the same thing that 1 John 1:6-7 says. It's a repeat of the same concept but in different words; And if that is not enough for you, then keep reading. 1 John 3 talks about how if you hate your brother, you are in darkness. If you hate your brother you are the equivalent of a murderer, and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding within them.
Last edited:
V
So you've said before. It isn't true.
No. As the verse immediately following states, confessing is what is necessary to be cleansed.
Absolutely true. Therefore, walking in the light is not for cleansing or clinging to righteousness, but because of having been cleansed and therefore walking in the works Christ has prepared for us beforehand (Ephesians 2:10).
No. As the verse immediately following states, confessing is what is necessary to be cleansed.
Absolutely true. Therefore, walking in the light is not for cleansing or clinging to righteousness, but because of having been cleansed and therefore walking in the works Christ has prepared for us beforehand (Ephesians 2:10).
Actually the only way to properly twist the 1st Epistle of John so as to defend OSAS is to believe in the false doctrine known as MAD (Mid Acts Dispensationalism - i.e. the two or more gospel view). At least in their view, it works as per looking at the epistle as if speaking to Jews only. However, we know that even MAD is a false doctrine because Paul essentially says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man teaches contrary to the doctrine of godliness and the words of Jesus is proud and knows nothing. We also know Paul spoke to Jews and that Peter had referred to Paul writing to the same people that Peter was writing to. Anyways, I believe that saying your future sin is forgiven with not stressing the importance of holiness as the requirement leads a person into ungodliness of which Paul warns against such as being proud and not knowing anything.
For you have to understand that from my perspective, your doctrine has the most to gain to serve yourself rather than God. It does not stress holiness as a requirement or right standing with the Lord so you can live however you please and serve two masters. At least that is the impression I get when I have these types of discussions. Rarely does holines play a factor in the OSAS doctrine. You are forgiven of future sin and cannot be unsaved. So then all true incentive to live correctly also goes out the window. For we know people will break or bend a state traffic law if there was no real major consequence in doing so.
Are you saying that God is responsible for the creation of the devil, wicked people, and all sin? If that is the case, then such a way of thinking does not make any sense in light of a Holy God who is purely good, and loving.
Oh, and yes; I believe God is good and loving, even in His judgments and anger towards sin and evil.
Oh, and yes; I believe God is good and loving, even in His judgments and anger towards sin and evil.
S
What you preach is philosophy. Then you begin to rationalize it with Bible verses.
You teach Platonic dualism as if it is Bible... it is disgusting. Don't you realize what the root of your religion is?
Do you know what Zoroastrianism is? Look it up, and gain some healthy fear. You are spreading some very old Babylonian thought.
God is not responsible for any sin,
but He is fully Sovereign over all things.
He told Job how we are to "rationalize" it = by simply submitting.
You teach Platonic dualism as if it is Bible... it is disgusting. Don't you realize what the root of your religion is?
Do you know what Zoroastrianism is? Look it up, and gain some healthy fear. You are spreading some very old Babylonian thought.
God is not responsible for any sin,
but He is fully Sovereign over all things.
He told Job how we are to "rationalize" it = by simply submitting.
So are you saying we should just shut off our moral compasses and follow any religious nut just because their interpretation of Scripture might sound good? I am sorry. You have a moral compass. God gave you one. For do you think what Jim Jones did to his followers was a good thing? How did he deceive those people into killing themselves? Do you think maybe they shut off their moral compasses? I believe they had. For it led to their own destruction. So again, I ask you: Did God directly create evil, the devil (as an evil being), and all sin? It's a simple question.
S
Incentive to live holy and perfect is: the Spirit working within me.
Doing works to save yourself from hell is called legalism. Such motive is false selfish motive.
The fact that you brought up law and consequence, seals your box.
Holiness is a hugely important and focal doctrine. Perseverance and fulfilling our call through deeds.
All this done out of love, not fear.
Doing works to save yourself from hell is called legalism. Such motive is false selfish motive.
The fact that you brought up law and consequence, seals your box.
Holiness is a hugely important and focal doctrine. Perseverance and fulfilling our call through deeds.
All this done out of love, not fear.
The title of this entire subject depends on who is being referred to as "Lord".
Lord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lord | Define Lord at Dictionary.com
Lord - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
KJV
1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
RKJV
1Ki_18:21 And EliYah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if YHWH be Elohim, follow him: but if the Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
His name has been replaced with Lord where it is mentioned around 7000 times in most of today's biblical translations.
How long will you refuse to call Him by His name?
It is written, even by the very finger of Yahuwah!
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of YHWH thy Elohim in vain; for YHWH will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Lord - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lord | Define Lord at Dictionary.com
Lord - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
KJV
1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
RKJV
1Ki_18:21 And EliYah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if YHWH be Elohim, follow him: but if the Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.
His name has been replaced with Lord where it is mentioned around 7000 times in most of today's biblical translations.
How long will you refuse to call Him by His name?
It is written, even by the very finger of Yahuwah!
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of YHWH thy Elohim in vain; for YHWH will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Uh, no. What I preach is Jesus Christ; And Him crucified, buried, and risen three days later. I preach the truth of His Word that lines up with reality. For God is not against reality. He created it after all; And Jesus used many real world examples to illustrate spiritual truth. Which is something you will never abe to illustrate in your denial of free will.
No, what you teach is no free will. That is disgusting because it is confusing to make such a statement and then say God is not responsible for sin. Then who exactly is responsible for sin? If it is man, then man chose of his own free will to do evil.... right? Or did God make them do the evil? There is no third alternative.
I am aware of Zoroastrianism. I believe it is a false religion. I also do not believe all of the things they say existed prior before Christ, either. Historical documents can be faked.
Then who is responsible for sin? Does not the one responsible for sin equate with them choosing evil of their own free will or did God force evil upon them?
Yes, God is sovereign over all things. He controls that which already exists. He did not create evil, sin, or bad people. Which means ..... people chose evil of their own free will. For what else can it be?
Also, all evil and sin will one day be destroyed. The devil, his minions, death, and all the wicked will perish. Evil will be conquered and be no more.
The trials and sufferings that Job went thru would not have existed if Adam and Eve did not pass sin upon the entire human race. They existed for Job as a test of his faith and love in the Lord in a sin fallen world. The evil that existed in the world was a result of Adam and Eve's (i.e. Mankind's) choice. God did not create a sin fallen world. That was man's choice. Job was merely living out his faith in such a world and proving his walk by faith before the Lord.
No, what you teach is no free will. That is disgusting because it is confusing to make such a statement and then say God is not responsible for sin. Then who exactly is responsible for sin? If it is man, then man chose of his own free will to do evil.... right? Or did God make them do the evil? There is no third alternative.
I am aware of Zoroastrianism. I believe it is a false religion. I also do not believe all of the things they say existed prior before Christ, either. Historical documents can be faked.
Then who is responsible for sin? Does not the one responsible for sin equate with them choosing evil of their own free will or did God force evil upon them?
Yes, God is sovereign over all things. He controls that which already exists. He did not create evil, sin, or bad people. Which means ..... people chose evil of their own free will. For what else can it be?
Also, all evil and sin will one day be destroyed. The devil, his minions, death, and all the wicked will perish. Evil will be conquered and be no more.
The trials and sufferings that Job went thru would not have existed if Adam and Eve did not pass sin upon the entire human race. They existed for Job as a test of his faith and love in the Lord in a sin fallen world. The evil that existed in the world was a result of Adam and Eve's (i.e. Mankind's) choice. God did not create a sin fallen world. That was man's choice. Job was merely living out his faith in such a world and proving his walk by faith before the Lord.
Last edited:
It has everything to do with having a moral compass. For if you believe there is no free will, then God is directly responsible for all the evil and sin we see in the world. If that is not the case, then where did evil and sin come from? How did it come to be? Did God choose it? Or did man choose it?
While I am glad that works for you, that is not the case according to Scripture and real life application of sinful men who need the Savior every day. For Scripture says, it is the fear of the Lord that is the beginning of wisdom. It also says it is the fear of the Lord that men depart from evil, too. So you response here is a lack of understanding of what the Scriptures are actually saying.
Well, you have nothing to worry about. I do not believe in Works Salvionism. I am strongly against it. In fact, I have argued plenty of times with Works Salvationists before. I believe that Holiness and fruitful works is the result of salvation. It is merely the proof in the pudding that your faith is true or that God lives within you. For God (Christ) is the source of your salvation. The answer of salvation is not in what you do, but it is in yield and or surrendering your heart to God in Godly sorrow. This then begins the transformation or regeneration of one's spirit whereby God does the good work within the beleiver.
For I am saved right now and right here by God's grace. I do not need to go out tomorrow and do something in order to be saved. God's grace. Yep. That's the ticket. The only way. Not of works. If I sin again, then I get my heart right with the Lord by confessing that sin to the Lord. It takes no effort to confess and or repent. For such things are not works. It is merely being broken before God.
And you misunderstood.
*Gives you back the box*
Perfect love casts out fear. But in the beginning one fears the Lord's Judgment and repents of their sins. If there is no Godly sorrow at their acceptance of God, then what are they actually being forgiven of? How are they really grateful? What are they being saved from? Do they value their salvation if they are not sorrowful over their sin and afraid of God's Judgment? For 2 Corinthains 5:11 says, "Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men..."
Well, you have nothing to worry about. I do not believe in Works Salvionism. I am strongly against it. In fact, I have argued plenty of times with Works Salvationists before. I believe that Holiness and fruitful works is the result of salvation. It is merely the proof in the pudding that your faith is true or that God lives within you. For God (Christ) is the source of your salvation. The answer of salvation is not in what you do, but it is in yield and or surrendering your heart to God in Godly sorrow. This then begins the transformation or regeneration of one's spirit whereby God does the good work within the beleiver.
For I am saved right now and right here by God's grace. I do not need to go out tomorrow and do something in order to be saved. God's grace. Yep. That's the ticket. The only way. Not of works. If I sin again, then I get my heart right with the Lord by confessing that sin to the Lord. It takes no effort to confess and or repent. For such things are not works. It is merely being broken before God.
And you misunderstood.
*Gives you back the box*
Perfect love casts out fear. But in the beginning one fears the Lord's Judgment and repents of their sins. If there is no Godly sorrow at their acceptance of God, then what are they actually being forgiven of? How are they really grateful? What are they being saved from? Do they value their salvation if they are not sorrowful over their sin and afraid of God's Judgment? For 2 Corinthains 5:11 says, "Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade men..."
God tells us we have free will many times in His Word. Granted, God only wants you to do the right thing. But God does not drag every human being about like rag dolls in order for all people to be saved. For obviously that is God's will right? For 2 Peter 3:9 says, "The Lord.... is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
But is everyone going to come to repentance and be saved? No. So this is something God desires yet it will not happen, though.
Deuteronomy 30:19 says, "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."
So God set the choice before us of blessing and cursing but he desires us to choose life.
In Genesis 4:7, God says to Cain, "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door."
So God has given Cain the choice to do either good or bad. If that was not the case, then the conversation would be a lot different.
But is everyone going to come to repentance and be saved? No. So this is something God desires yet it will not happen, though.
Deuteronomy 30:19 says, "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live."
So God set the choice before us of blessing and cursing but he desires us to choose life.
In Genesis 4:7, God says to Cain, "If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door."
So God has given Cain the choice to do either good or bad. If that was not the case, then the conversation would be a lot different.