Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?
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Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
[SUP]21[/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe Rom 3:20-22
If a Christian has a righteousness/right standing/justification before God apart from works of the law(or observing the law) what does that mean?
Well a work of the law is striving to obey the law, or observing the law. What is the consequences of failure to observe the law? It is sin!! Therefore if you have right standing with God apart from works of the law/observing the law you have right standing with God that does not depend on your personal sin, for you have right standing with God apart from observing the law
Can anyone tell me how according to what I have quoted that is incorrect?
Righteousness Through Faith
[SUP]21[/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe Rom 3:20-22
If a Christian has a righteousness/right standing/justification before God apart from works of the law(or observing the law) what does that mean?
Well a work of the law is striving to obey the law, or observing the law. What is the consequences of failure to observe the law? It is sin!! Therefore if you have right standing with God apart from works of the law/observing the law you have right standing with God that does not depend on your personal sin, for you have right standing with God apart from observing the law
Can anyone tell me how according to what I have quoted that is incorrect?
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michael56 "Righteousness through Faith" The question actually is what is perfection or walking rightly.
The suggestion is man by himself can never attain this, the law only shows his failure.
The gospel contention is love applied to the heart, being born again, spiritual birth, remakes you so you can fulfill this righteousness. The problem is sin then easily becomes as James put it "knowing something you should do and not doing it."
It is clear, by being written in the Lambs book of life, we must be transformed. What is not so clear is failure to walk properly is this because of our deception or just learning how to walk. I would suggest it is learning the internal structure of who as an individual you are and dealing with the causes of your sin and problems as you grow.
Jesus promises you one thing, while you abide in Him, he will save you on the day of judgement. But the choice of how you build and what you build is up to you. The law or how you build does not save you, you are already saved.
It sounds like you want a clear definition which the apostles and Paul were all hazy on. But as in all love relationships it is the walk the matters, which involves your free will and life. You behaviour is the fruit of your spirit, so I would concentrate on what you are focusing on, not the ideas regarding the law...
The suggestion is man by himself can never attain this, the law only shows his failure.
The gospel contention is love applied to the heart, being born again, spiritual birth, remakes you so you can fulfill this righteousness. The problem is sin then easily becomes as James put it "knowing something you should do and not doing it."
It is clear, by being written in the Lambs book of life, we must be transformed. What is not so clear is failure to walk properly is this because of our deception or just learning how to walk. I would suggest it is learning the internal structure of who as an individual you are and dealing with the causes of your sin and problems as you grow.
Jesus promises you one thing, while you abide in Him, he will save you on the day of judgement. But the choice of how you build and what you build is up to you. The law or how you build does not save you, you are already saved.
It sounds like you want a clear definition which the apostles and Paul were all hazy on. But as in all love relationships it is the walk the matters, which involves your free will and life. You behaviour is the fruit of your spirit, so I would concentrate on what you are focusing on, not the ideas regarding the law...
once you know what a precept is all about, then you don't have to worry about keeping the actual precept, just the thought behind it... so, doesn't matter how you cut your hair, just don't do it for a false god... wouldn't matter when you rest, long as you know that it's God that 'gives us this day our daily bread'...
That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed. [SUP]4 [/SUP]As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has ears, let them hear.” Matt13:1-9
Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: [SUP]19 [/SUP]When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown Matt13:18-23
What is the word?
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe Rom3:20-23
What is works of the law? Not committing sin. Therefore you cannot be made unrighteous in God's sight for your failure to obey the law(which is your sin)
That is the key to living as God wants you to. But few believe it. They insinuate the opposite. Heaven hinges on you not committing sin. Now flagrant sin without conscience means you are not born again. Sin with conscience proves you are born again. Therefore, a Christian can be defined as one who is conscious of their sin before God. For the law placed within them makes them conscious of that sin
Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: [SUP]19 [/SUP]When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. [SUP]22 [/SUP]The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown Matt13:18-23
What is the word?
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. [SUP]22 [/SUP]This righteousness is given through faith in[SUP][h][/SUP] Jesus Christ to all who believe Rom3:20-23
What is works of the law? Not committing sin. Therefore you cannot be made unrighteous in God's sight for your failure to obey the law(which is your sin)
That is the key to living as God wants you to. But few believe it. They insinuate the opposite. Heaven hinges on you not committing sin. Now flagrant sin without conscience means you are not born again. Sin with conscience proves you are born again. Therefore, a Christian can be defined as one who is conscious of their sin before God. For the law placed within them makes them conscious of that sin
K
The thing is that by walking in love which would also be walking by/in the Spirit will have one automatically uphold the moral laws of God, which are contained within the 10 commandments. As love would not violate any of those commands, nor would love have one do wrong to self or others. When one does sin though we have an advocate between us and God that when we confess that sin the Lord will forgive us of it and cover it with His blood cleansing us from all unrighteousness.
There is steps in a true born again believers life; As hearing leads to faith, faith leads to love, love leads to obedience, obedience leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to salvation.
Lord Jesus Christ being the potter behind these steps to mold us unto perfection......
then tell me why they rejected what you just said. again if you cant read in context, then your speculating.
But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved Acts 15
.5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."Acts 15
they have already brought to the table your speculation , at the meeting. yet you still dont have a clue about the new covenant.
and gave them this.
9 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
now prove the law of moses was given to a gentile. that would include 10 commands.
and if they only gave a few, would that be the whole law. or a watered down, law. that you claim keeps you in the grace of god.
But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved Acts 15
.5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."Acts 15
they have already brought to the table your speculation , at the meeting. yet you still dont have a clue about the new covenant.
and gave them this.
9 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.
now prove the law of moses was given to a gentile. that would include 10 commands.
and if they only gave a few, would that be the whole law. or a watered down, law. that you claim keeps you in the grace of god.
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K
What are you talking about ?
Are you just speculating and throwing stuff in the wind as I never said a person has to be physically circumcised, nor did they.
Nowhere did I say the whole 613 Mosaic laws were given to the gentiles, so obviously you are not reading what I posted as the Apostles including Paul only stated a few guidelines from the mosaic laws that carried over. Not all 613, so they did not reject what I just said;
[h=1]Acts 15:19-20[/h]19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:24
For as much as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Acts 15:28
"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
Nice post, fairly logical argument.
however I would suggest that your view of justification/imputed righteousness is lacking.
what about sanctification/imparted righteousness.?
Can we have justification without sanctification? I would say no.
Look what Paul says:
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Its not enough to hear one must do, and being that we can not do one then must have to be converted by faith to a doer of the law in order to be justified.
Paul puts it this way:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Have a look at the word "freed" there, it is translated everywhere else in Romans as "justified"
so it should read, for he that is dead is justified from sin.
and what does being dead mean to Paul?
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein?
To be sure what Paul means:
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey the lusts thereof:
Its the new birth experience one is not justified when unless they are born again. And as you have rightly pointed out to break the law is sin, and Paul says that we are dead to sin and that means we do not live or obey its lusts. the defult is that through faith in Christs death and resurrection we stop sinning willfully which means by default we are obeying the law by faith in Christ.
however I would suggest that your view of justification/imputed righteousness is lacking.
what about sanctification/imparted righteousness.?
Can we have justification without sanctification? I would say no.
Look what Paul says:
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Its not enough to hear one must do, and being that we can not do one then must have to be converted by faith to a doer of the law in order to be justified.
Paul puts it this way:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Have a look at the word "freed" there, it is translated everywhere else in Romans as "justified"
so it should read, for he that is dead is justified from sin.
and what does being dead mean to Paul?
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein?
To be sure what Paul means:
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey the lusts thereof:
Its the new birth experience one is not justified when unless they are born again. And as you have rightly pointed out to break the law is sin, and Paul says that we are dead to sin and that means we do not live or obey its lusts. the defult is that through faith in Christs death and resurrection we stop sinning willfully which means by default we are obeying the law by faith in Christ.
moral law, you said wrote in our heart. what is moral law.
not a repeat of what i said earlier.
what moral law saved you.
context
11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.Romans 11
what moral law do i need to believe like abraham that god sent his son,
6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.1
not a repeat of what i said earlier.
what moral law saved you.
context
11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.15 For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.Romans 11
what moral law do i need to believe like abraham that god sent his son,
6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.1
K
Yes being dead to sin and alive in Christ as Paul puts it is through baptism.
Yes Paul preached baptism, even though he did not administer it after Acts;
Colossians 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Paul says in his epistles through baptism we die to the flesh, and rise in newness of the Spirit in Jesus Christ.
By being in Christ we are to put off the lusts (sins) of the flesh and walk in love (righteousness). The fruits of Spirit will show through in a true born again believer, as the Holy Spirit of the Lord will guide you to walk in righteousness unto salvation.
can one be saved if they only die, no as it is written:
Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
6:4 ... that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
Paul taught that salvation or being saved does not come in the death alone notice,
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
look at these verses.
justified by his blood/reconciled through His death.
Saved from wrath through Him/Saved by His life.
They are parallel verses and each have two points separated by the words "much more"
So if we are justified and reconciled by His death, then much more that being true we shall be saved by his life from wrath.
Now you might think, see we are justified first and you are right but Paul has made it clear that those who are justified are doers of the law and not just hearers which means they no longer serve sin.
Let me ask you a question, Baptism can one die only and have salvation? or does one rise to newness of life also?
Yes one rises to life also. they are inseparable components for salvation.
Notice Christs baptism:
Mat 3:16 And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;
water of repentance and then spirit of life.
notice the words of Jesus:
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
what does born again entail?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
So both our death in water of repentance and cleansing in the blood and the reception of the Spirit which causes us to walk in newness of life.
They are inseparable one needs both to enter the kingdom of God as it is written:
Act 19:2 and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given.
Act 19:3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John's baptism.
Act 19:4 And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus.
Act 19:5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
These people had repented but that was not enough to simply be born of water but they must also be born of the Spirit thereby receiving Christ by faith.
It is by the Spirit that we are changed and this is part of the new birth experience otherwise one can not enter the kingdom of God.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
All this is accessed by faith in Christ death and resurrection. not by works lest any should boast.
Rom 6:5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;
6:4 ... that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
Paul taught that salvation or being saved does not come in the death alone notice,
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life;
look at these verses.
justified by his blood/reconciled through His death.
Saved from wrath through Him/Saved by His life.
They are parallel verses and each have two points separated by the words "much more"
So if we are justified and reconciled by His death, then much more that being true we shall be saved by his life from wrath.
Now you might think, see we are justified first and you are right but Paul has made it clear that those who are justified are doers of the law and not just hearers which means they no longer serve sin.
Let me ask you a question, Baptism can one die only and have salvation? or does one rise to newness of life also?
Yes one rises to life also. they are inseparable components for salvation.
Notice Christs baptism:
Mat 3:16 And Jesus when he was baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him;
water of repentance and then spirit of life.
notice the words of Jesus:
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
what does born again entail?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
So both our death in water of repentance and cleansing in the blood and the reception of the Spirit which causes us to walk in newness of life.
They are inseparable one needs both to enter the kingdom of God as it is written:
Act 19:2 and he said unto them, Did ye receive the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether the Holy Spirit was given.
Act 19:3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into John's baptism.
Act 19:4 And Paul said, John baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him that should come after him, that is, on Jesus.
Act 19:5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
These people had repented but that was not enough to simply be born of water but they must also be born of the Spirit thereby receiving Christ by faith.
It is by the Spirit that we are changed and this is part of the new birth experience otherwise one can not enter the kingdom of God.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 2:13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
All this is accessed by faith in Christ death and resurrection. not by works lest any should boast.
K
What is the moral law?
If one has to ask this question I would have to question rather they have the Holy Spirit within them or not.
The moral law of God is to walk in love, for love will not covet, lie, steal, murder, hate, commit idolatry, adultery, and so on...And in return will do good to others, show forgiveness, compassion, mercy, protection, and so on........
God did not send His Holy Spirit here for us to continue to walk in lewdness, sins, darkness, lusts.
God sent the Holy Spirit to guide and help us walk in love, righteousness, forgiveness, mercy, abstain and have control over sins, and so on......