God's will

[prove-all]

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done (in earth), as it is in heaven.

soon and very soon, his will Will be inforced with a rod of iron here on earth​

 

[Elin]

I'm not trying to. I really haven't heard that terminology before, maybe I am a little untaught in some things, or maybe it is my age, so can you explain to this old man? I am really not dragging you, I don't think, because I don't even know what "dragging you" means, I guess I am just to old to keep up with the latest terminology.

See post #38.

 

[kennethcadwell]

All of the scriptures you have listed are directed to "the elect, and eternally saved children of God". They are not telling eternally saved people how to obtain eternal salvation.

I guess you did not read all those scriptures, because none of them say these people all ready have eternal life.
It says they must fight the fight, keep the faith, make your election sure, and so on. Which go with many others where Paul says only if you continue in the faith do you receive eternal life. Jude's whole epistle is about eternal life salvation, and gives the Exodus as an example and says those who were once saved by God because they later turned their back on Him He destroyed them. Exodus 32:33 that goes along with this says God blotted them out of His book of Life.

 

[SeaBass]

You did not address the Biblical testimony, nor reconcile it to your human testimony.

Are you saying RC Sproul is wrong?

 

[SeaBass]

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done (in earth), as it is in heaven.

soon and very soon, his will Will be inforced with a rod of iron here on earth​

The question here is why in this model prayer that Jesus gave His disciples are they to pray that God's will be done if God's will will be done regardless of what one prays or if one even prays at all?

The idea here in praying for God's will be done refers to God's preceptive will in His desire/wish all men to come to repentance and be saved.

Albert Barnes, a Calvinists says (my emp) "Thy will be done - The will of God is, that people should obey his law, and be holy. The word “will,” here, has reference to his law, and to what would be “acceptable” to him. To pray, then, that his will may be done, on earth as in heaven, is to pray that his “law,” his “revealed will,” may be obeyed and loved. His law is perfectly obeyed in heaven, and his true children most ardently desire and pray that it may also be obeyed on the earth."

 

[Elin]

I'm thinkin' the Bible knows nothing of God unwillingly "allowing" what he does not wish to happen
(Ex 4:11b; Dt 32:39; 1Sa 2:7; 1Kgs 11:14, 23, 12:15, 24; Job 1:12; Is 45:7, 53:10, 54:16;
Jer 44:27-28; Lam 3:37-38; Amos 3:6; Zec 1:16; Mt 10:29; Jn 9:2-3; Rev 17:17).

Nor does the Bible know anything of a "permissive" will of God (Ex 4:21, 9:16;
1Sa 18:10; 2Sa 24:1, 10; 1Kgs 22:23; Job 12:16; Eze 14:9; Da 4:25).

The Bible knows only the revealed will of God, which man is commanded to obey and does not,
and the secret will of God, which God has decided it is best for us not to know
(Dt 29:29), and which is always done (Is 46:10-11).

Are you saying RC Sproul is wrong?

Are you saying the copious Biblical testimony is wrong?

 

[SeaBass]

Are you saying the copious Biblical testimony is wrong?

Are you saying RC Sproul is wrong?

 

[forsha]

Agreed. Man can not alter God's will. Then we can talk about what is causing God to decide certain things to happen and then we are into the issue of God's revealed will and hidden counsel.

That may help in my studies.

 

[forsha]

I personally believe that Nebuchadnezzar ended up being a saved child of God based upon the three statements that he makes about the God of Daniel, and how each statement shows and sets forth a progressive revelation of truth concerning Daniel's God.....just my view.....we will know in the day of judgment for sure........!

I think that is a good assumption.

 

[forsha]

YES!!!

In Jonah 3 God sent Jonah to Nineveh with the message that in 40 days Nineveh SHALL BE overthrown.

From Jer 18:8 God has promised that "If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them." God also promised "If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them." v10 God cannot break His promises and lie.

Upon hearing Jonah, the king of Nineveh lead the city to repent, they turned from their evil. And God did as He said He would do in Jer 18:8 in Jonah 3:10 "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not."

Nineveh of its own freewill chose to repent, turned from its evil. So God repented, changed, altered His course of action from overthrowing Nineveh as He said He would in Jonah 3:4.



A second point I would add is the bible expresses God's will in at least 3 different ways:

1) God's permissive will where God simply allows some thing to happen. In Rom 1:24ff Gentiles chose of their own freewill to do that which was evil and God allowed them to do so, God "gave them up" permitting them pursue the evil they chose to do.

2) God's decretive will. When God created the universe He decreed it into existence, no one can thwart what God decrees.

3) God's perceptive will, unlike what God decrees, His perceptive will is what God desires, wishes men would do. God made salvation available to man through Christ, so God desires, wishes all men would obey by repenting and be saved 2 Pet 3:9; Heb 5:9. Unlike God's decretive will, God does not always get what His perceptive will wishes men would do, as in Mt 23:37, Christ "would" but those Jews "would not".

Therefore when you speak of God's will, it must be understood within the context which of these three is being expressed.

Did Jonah preach to Nineveh? If Jonah preached to Nineveh God's will was accomplished.

 

[Elin]

Are you saying the copious Biblical testimony is wrong?

Are you saying RC Sproul is wrong?

See my response above.

 

[prove-all]

The question here is why in this model prayer that Jesus gave His disciples are they to pray that God's will be done if God's will will be done regardless of what one prays or if one even prays at all?

The idea here in praying for God's will be done refers to God's preceptive will in His desire/wish all men to come to repentance and be saved.

."

this to me is a statement and a fact,


Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done (in earth), as it is in heaven.


his will (will) be done in all earth when Christ comes and rules with a rod of iron.

all his right ways are not being done on earth now, come out of this world he says.

 

[pwrnJC]

Take a look at our planet. Mankind has ruined it in so many ways since Creation. Yes, no human can bend the will of GOD...and who would want to try? Who has a better idea than GOD Himself, the Creator? GOD intended to commune with His own, that is until sin entered the story. But..in the END..GOD will commune with HIS own, full circle.

 

[forsha]

I guess you did not read all those scriptures, because none of them say these people all ready have eternal life.
It says they must fight the fight, keep the faith, make your election sure, and so on. Which go with many others where Paul says only if you continue in the faith do you receive eternal life. Jude's whole epistle is about eternal life salvation, and gives the Exodus as an example and says those who were once saved by God because they later turned their back on Him He destroyed them. Exodus 32:33 that goes along with this says God blotted them out of His book of Life.

Can you explain to me how the carnal man in 1 Cor 2:14 will ,or can, do these things, sense he can not discern anything of a spiritual nature?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Can you explain to me how the carnal man in 1 Cor 2:14 will ,or can, do these things, sense he can not discern anything of a spiritual nature?

Well you answered your own question in the question.
You said a carnal man, and if the person is carnal then they have not been born again in the first place.
The scriptures I gave is not speaking of the carnal man, they are talking to believers in Christ about obtaining salvation.
The carnal man sets their mind only on the things of the flesh, and not the Spirit. Paul shows this clearly from his transition in Romans 7 to Romans 8, as Paul calls himself carnal in 7 but then in 8 shows that he now walks in the Spirit and is no longer carnal as that leads to death.

 

[SeaBass]

See my response above.

I do not agree with your response above and evidently, RC Sproul does not either. So you think Sproul is wrong?

 

[SeaBass]

this to me is a statement and a fact,


Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done (in earth), as it is in heaven.


his will (will) be done in all earth when Christ comes and rules with a rod of iron.

all his right ways are not being done on earth now, come out of this world he says.

Prayer is a petition to God, so the issue is why petition God for His will be done if His will will be done regardless?

 

[SeaBass]

Did Jonah preach to Nineveh? If Jonah preached to Nineveh God's will was accomplished.

Was Nineveh destroyed as Jonah preached it would be?

 

[Marian29]

His will and promises will be fulfilled, but He is a God of love and not a dictator, he has given us free will so that we can choose, we are not obliged to follow Him or worship Him, however there are consequences to be measured.

 

[Elin]

I'm thinkin' the Bible knows nothing of God unwillingly "allowing" what he does not wish to happen
(Ex 4:11b; Dt 32:39; 1Sa 2:7; 1Kgs 11:14, 23, 12:15, 24; Job 1:12; Is 45:7, 53:10, 54:16;
Jer 44:27-28; Lam 3:37-38; Amos 3:6; Zec 1:16; Mt 10:29; Jn 9:2-3; Rev 17:17).

Nor does the Bible know anything of a "permissive" will of God (Ex 4:21, 9:16;
1Sa 18:10; 2Sa 24:1, 10; 1Kgs 22:23; Job 12:16; Eze 14:9; Da 4:25).

The Bible knows only the revealed will of God, which man is commanded to obey and does not,
and the secret will of God, which God has decided it is best for us not to know
(Dt 29:29), and which is always done (Is 46:10-11).

Even a Calvinsts as RC Sproul understands the bible expresses God's will in various ways:

Yes, they are presented in my post above.

The Will of God by R.C. Sproul

Excerpt from above link:

1. The three meanings of the will of God:

(a) Sovereign decretive will, the will by which God brings to pass
whatsoever He decrees. This is hidden to us until it happens.

(b) Preceptive will is God's revealed law or commandments, which we have the
power but not the right to break.

(c) Will of disposition describes God's attitude or disposition. It reveals
what is pleasing to Him.

2. God's sovereign "permission" of human sin is not His moral approval.

I do not agree with your response above and
evidently, RC Sproul does not either.

So you think Sproul is wrong?

I see no disagreement of Sproul with my response above.

(a) would be God's secret will.

(b) and (c) would be God's revealed will.

2. agrees there is no stated "permissive" will of God in Scripture.