not under the law Galatians 5.
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H
haz
Guest
You are too focused on us and our ability, we have no ability so why focus there?
Not sure why you would think that I claimed we have ability.
I believe that a Christians focus is on Christ in us, the hope of glory.
In fact haz I think it was you that made me really think.
We were having a disagreement on this issue on keeping the commandments and then one day when we were writing back and forth it dawned on me that while I was saying to keep the law I myself was not able to do so.
This perplexed me so I spent much time in study on the subject. I could not get past the fact that the true Christian should be keeping the law. So then I thought what is the problem then?
I kept searching and finally God showed me it was a lack of faith in Christ and Him Crucified. That and because of that fact I was very much a legalist.
It took a long time but I finally found the answer to my problem in Christ's death and resurrection. I found Grace that changed my life. where I failed before I was not victorious. And from there it has been an upward march.
But I do not boast in this because I have learned from falling and getting back up that we can not do it, it has to be us getting out of the way trusting in His Grace and He does the works.
I heard similar experiences from others. They also admitted that they go through periods of success and then periods of failure, but claiming that one day they will eventually be consistently sinless, always obeying the law perfectly.
But the result of such doctrine is that you see those who do not obey the law perfectly as being in unbelief, rejecting the power of the cross. I suspect you even see such persons as unrighteous. Such doctrine is error.
Not sure why you would think that I claimed we have ability.
I believe that a Christians focus is on Christ in us, the hope of glory.
I heard similar experiences from others. They also admitted that they go through periods of success and then periods of failure, but claiming that one day they will eventually be consistently sinless, always obeying the law perfectly.
But the result of such doctrine is that you see those who do not obey the law perfectly as being in unbelief, rejecting the power of the cross. I suspect you even see such persons as unrighteous. Such doctrine is error.
I do not personally relate to the up down experience anymore, not that this justifies me but rather because Christ justified me by his blood and life that I am able to have this experience.
Do I ever stuff up? I would be lying to say no. and so no I do not see people who stuff up as out of faith. but those who preach sin can not be overcome i do see as out of faith at least to some degree.
I by the way said the wrong thing when I said your carnal hate above and I apologize. I made an assumption and should not have.
Can I try to explain something here about my view of the Sabbath.
I see the Sabbath as a blessing and Yes I do know it is sin to not keep it.
But in your case I have to ask myself the question is this person rebelling or simply ignorant of the importance. This is why I apologized for my post cause I made an assumption that may or may not be true. I don't really know if you are rebelling or not.
I do not think someone is out of faith if they are living up to all they know.
That is why by their fruits can tell me there is a problem but it can not tell me if that person is saved or not.
I see the Sabbath as a blessing and Yes I do know it is sin to not keep it.
But in your case I have to ask myself the question is this person rebelling or simply ignorant of the importance. This is why I apologized for my post cause I made an assumption that may or may not be true. I don't really know if you are rebelling or not.
I do not think someone is out of faith if they are living up to all they know.
That is why by their fruits can tell me there is a problem but it can not tell me if that person is saved or not.
H
haz
Guest
Have you heard the term: If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it probably is a duck?
Jesus put it like this, by their fruits you shall no them.
So if they talk like a slave and act like a slave then they probably are a slave.
Slaves can't keep the law.
I agree.
Note Gal 4:21-31 to see who the slave is.
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
For Christians our boast is in Christ. In Christ we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law/unrighteousness (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1).
Yet you still speak of Christians being charged with sin until they can consistently obey the law perfectly. And then you claim that anyone who fails to obey the law perfectly is in unbelief.
The reality is that it's those preaching the law, claiming that sin remains unless we're perfectly obeying the law, it is such that are the slaves. They are children of Hagar and thus in bondage.
I have tried to explain this to others but often my wording is inadequate. type is not my strong suit.
People can't understand how I can believe it is sin to not keep the Sabbath and Yet believe that people can be saved while not keeping it.
The Reason is simple, People live up to the light they have. This is good.
People can't understand how I can believe it is sin to not keep the Sabbath and Yet believe that people can be saved while not keeping it.
The Reason is simple, People live up to the light they have. This is good.
I agree.
Note Gal 4:21-31 to see who the slave is.
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
For Christians our boast is in Christ. In Christ we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law/unrighteousness (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1).
Yet you still speak of Christians being charged with sin until they can consistently obey the law perfectly. And then you claim that anyone who fails to obey the law perfectly is in unbelief.
The reality is that it's those preaching the law, claiming that sin remains unless we're perfectly obeying the law, it is such that are the slaves. They are children of Hagar and thus in bondage.
Yes and no, For me to not obey it would be open rebellion to God cause I know what Christ offers me.
But to someone who is ignorant of this truth but yet lives up to the light they do know they are in faith.
H
haz
Guest
Can I try to explain something here about my view of the Sabbath.
I see the Sabbath as a blessing and Yes I do know it is sin to not keep it.
Christians are spiritual (1Cor 15:44, Gal 6:1, 1Cor 14:37) and we look to enter into God's Sabbath rest.
Heb 4:2-4
For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”
Christians are spiritual (1Cor 15:44, Gal 6:1, 1Cor 14:37) and we look to enter into God's Sabbath rest.
Heb 4:2-4
For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”
We see those passages very differently, while I also believe Christ gives us rest the Sabbath is a different issue.
H
haz
Guest
Yes and no, For me to not obey it would be open rebellion to God cause I know what Christ offers me.
But to someone who is ignorant of this truth but yet lives up to the light they do know they are in faith.
The two commandments Christians obey are (1John 3:23):
1: Believe on Jesus
2: Love one another
Note the Sabbath is not listed here.
As I said before, it's God's spiritual Sabbath rest we look to enter in to, Heb 4.
The two commandments Christians obey are (1John 3:23):
1: Believe on Jesus
2: Love one another
Note the Sabbath is not listed here.
As I said before, it's God's spiritual Sabbath rest we look to enter in to, Heb 4.
Do not take the name of the Lord in vain is not there either so shall we do that now?
Hebrews 4 does not say the Sabbath has changed it actually does the opposite.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
The Sabbath is listed here:
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work;
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath unto Jehovah thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore Jehovah blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
which means it is sin to not remember it as it is written:
Rom 3:20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.
we might not be under the law but does that give us grace to sin? cause not remembering the Sabbath is sin.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work;
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is a sabbath unto Jehovah thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore Jehovah blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
which means it is sin to not remember it as it is written:
Rom 3:20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.
we might not be under the law but does that give us grace to sin? cause not remembering the Sabbath is sin.
H
haz
Guest
See the problem is most here acknowledge that the law points out sin, part of that law is the 7th day Sabbath.
I agree the law points out sin.
And note that whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.
But Christians are not under the jurisdiction of te law (Rom 8:2, Rom 10:4, Gal 3:25, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9).
Thus we cannot be charged with sin/transgression of the law/unrighteousness, (Rom 8:33, 1John 3:9, 1Pet 4:1). Jesus truly set us free from sin, John 8:36.
H
haz
Guest
Do not take the name of the Lord in vain is not there either so shall we do that now?
Believing on Jesus implies that one does not take the Lord's name in vain. See scripture below as confirmation.
John 12:44
Then Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
John 16:27
for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God.
Hebrews 4 does not say the Sabbath has changed it actually does the opposite.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
God is spiritual.
Christians are spiritual.
Why limit your view to physical days?