Christian therapeutic Moral Deism

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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#21
Jul 22, 2014
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#21
As for those who do not hold to the Biblical Pre-Trib Rapture view: I cannot say whether or not they are saved or not. But I do not know they will not be Raptured before the Tribulation; And when they miss out on it, they will definitely then hold to a Pre-Trib Rapture view at that point. The only indication that I think where a person may not be saved, is if they become wicked and lazy in their walk with God because they believe the Lord is delaying His coming (See Matthew 24:48-51).

Here is a short animated video you should check out:

[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIj47X960pw[/video]
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#22
Jul 22, 2014
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#22
As for Calvinism: Well, I think some Calvinists believe we have "free will" but they just don't define it in that way. For there are some Calvinists who believe we do have a choice to choose either good or evil. They believe God does not directly created evil. So while it is still a false belief, I do not think it would be a salvation issue for these types of Calvinists. However, there are Calvinists who believe God does directly create evil, though. Yes, I am aware of Isaiah 45:7 that appears to say that (And I have debated it many times). But we must be aware of the context when looking at this verse. Anyways, I believe if anyone teaches that God directly creates evil is not saved. For one would be teaching that God is evil by doing so. However... God is love. God is good. God is holy and is not capable of sin. So He cannot create sinful beings directly whereby they would do bad things. For a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit. Adam and Eve chose to be the bad trees; Not God.
 
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thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#23
Jun 30, 2011
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#23
lol Jason - you remind me of the "it's not about the nail" video on youtube. It's not really about the individual topics i gave, but the attitude behind them

[video=youtube;-4EDhdAHrOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg[/video]
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
#24
#24
thecreationtutor said:
lol Jason - you remind me of the "it's not about the nail" video on youtube. It's not really about the individual topics i gave, but the attitude behind them

[video=youtube;-4EDhdAHrOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg[/video]
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LOL that was funny
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#25
Jul 22, 2014
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#25
thecreationtutor said:
lol Jason - you remind me of the "it's not about the nail" video on youtube. It's not really about the individual topics i gave, but the attitude behind them

[video=youtube;-4EDhdAHrOg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg[/video]
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I am assuming your post of this video is to suggest that I am not trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ. That I am ignoring it like that women in the video who is ignoring the nail in her head (Which is causing her pain). Nothing could be further from the truth. Unfortunately videos that are funny and well produced are not always based on Scripture and or a source of truth, though. God's Word is our standard. So we must discuss this using God's Word (In which I have already provided verses to prove my case). Upholding God's moral laws is just what a believer will naturally do after they are saved and born again. They do not do things so as to be saved, but they do realize that good fruit will be a natural result of their salvation in Christ, though. For you seem to think that God's people as being defined as doing what is good and right (as a part of having been saved) is in conflict with trusting in God's grace.
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#26
Jul 22, 2014
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#26
Jason0047 said:
I am assuming your post of this video is to suggest that I am not trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ. That I am ignoring it like that women in the video who is ignoring the nail in her head (Which is causing her pain). Nothing could be further from the truth. Unfortunately videos that are funny and well produced are not always based on Scripture and or a source of truth, though. God's Word is our standard. So we must discuss this using God's Word (In which I have already provided verses to prove my case). Upholding God's moral laws is just what a believer will naturally do after they are saved and born again. They do not do things so as to be saved, but they do realize that good fruit will be a natural result of their salvation in Christ, though. For you seem to think that God's people as being defined as doing what is good and right (as a part of having been saved) is in conflict with trusting in God's grace.
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How is a believer upholding the moral law as a result of having been saved not in conflict with salvation being a free gift that is not of works?

The key to the answer on this one is understanding who ultimately does the good work in a believer's life.

Okay, so who does the "good work" in a believer's life? Is it God? Or is it the believer? Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10 KJV
Hebrews 12:1, 2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22, 23, 24 (cf. Matthew 7:16, 18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26, 27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#27
Jul 22, 2014
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#27
I mean, do you honestly believe Christ is going to say to the Antinomian,

"Well done good and faithful servant, enter thou into the joy of thy Lord." ​

When they have not been a faithful and good servant and they have done sin and evil continually against HIm?
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#28
Jul 22, 2014
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#28
Does not the Scriptures say that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law like justice, love, and mercy? Did not Jesus have a problem with the Pharisees? Did Jesus appear to be teaching a sin and still be saved doctrine with people? Did the apostles? If so, where is the Scripture that teaches that? And if Jesus did believe in Antinomianism, then why did Jesus appear to be inconsistent in his teaching by teaching morality and goodness as a part of a person's right standing with God?
 
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Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#29
Jul 22, 2014
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#29
DesiredHaven said:
LOL that was funny
Click to expand...
I don't think Jesus would think it is funny. Especially when he knows that many Antinomians would use this video to justify their sinful lifestyles (with the thinking they are saved).
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#30
Jul 22, 2014
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#30
"(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)" (Philippians 3:18-19).
 
thecreationtutor

thecreationtutor

Senior Member
#31
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
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#31
Jason0047 said:
I am assuming your post of this video is to suggest that I am not trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ. That I am ignoring it like that women in the video who is ignoring the nail in her head (Which is causing her pain). Nothing could be further from the truth. Unfortunately videos that are funny and well produced are not always based on Scripture and or a source of truth, though. God's Word is our standard. So we must discuss this using God's Word (In which I have already provided verses to prove my case). Upholding God's moral laws is just what a believer will naturally do after they are saved and born again. They do not do things so as to be saved, but they do realize that good fruit will be a natural result of their salvation in Christ, though. For you seem to think that God's people as being defined as doing what is good and right (as a part of having been saved) is in conflict with trusting in God's grace.
Click to expand...

Bro man

It was not an attack - the issue I am trying to refer too is the deeper issue behind why people do the things they do, just to bring them to light. Most issues are just surface issues of an underlying reality.


Why did you go off on a long line of posts?
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#32
Jul 22, 2014
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#32
thecreationtutor said:
Bro man

It was not an attack - the issue I am trying to refer too is the deeper issue behind why people do the things they do, just to bring them to light. Most issues are just surface issues of an underlying reality.
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John 3:19-21 sums up people's motivation nicely, my friend.

Why did you go off on a long line of posts?
Click to expand...
I am passionate about God's Word and His goodness. When people try and change that, I step up to the plate.
 
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Agricola

Agricola

Senior Member
#33
Dec 10, 2012
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#33
thecreationtutor said:
Bro man

It was not an attack - the issue I am trying to refer too is the deeper issue behind why people do the things they do, just to bring them to light. Most issues are just surface issues of an underlying reality.


Why did you go off on a long line of posts?
Click to expand...
SHhhh don't mention his nail!
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#35
Jul 22, 2014
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#35
thecreationtutor said:
Bro man

It was not an attack
Click to expand...
Sorry, I don't believe you. You are clearly mocking my belief in God's Word with the video and you laughed (Which then caused another to laugh and another person to make a smart comment towards me). So yes, I do consider it an attack.

Why did you go off on a long line of posts?
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Why did you not answer the Scripture verses I posted?
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#36
Dec 26, 2014
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#36
when will people just seek God and spend more time talking with Him, as He permits, by grace in Jesus?

talke withe Him, listen to Him, abide in Him, rest in Him, do everything in Him with Him that HE WANTS.

always, everyday, everynight, all the time, walking WITH HIM IN UNION WITH HIM IN YAHSHUA(JESUS).

in line with ALL OF HIS WORD, "EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS....." , not just pickyness

as only a few out of the whole world do.....

no idols. no sacrilege. no re-crucifying Christ daily. no donkytrin of demons or traditions of evil men opposed to God.
simply no trusting any man (as in it is written "a few men are liars" ) (if you catch, learn, and know experientially with God that one, it's a START!)
no idolatrous scholars. no greedy lawyer-types. no liars. (yes- surprise - a big one affecting all)....


instead, disciples(students, pupils, followers) OF JESUS (NOT of ANY chruch)....
just like lambs or sheep sent out in the midst of ravenous wolves........ ON PURPOSE !!!!!! GOD'S PLAN!!!!!
 
Agricola

Agricola

Senior Member
#37
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
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#37
Jason0047 said:
And what nail would that be?
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King James Onlyism. That is the only reason you got all hot and bothered with the OP and went off wasting your time by writing countless posts about it.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#38
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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0
#38
Jeff_56 said:
when will people just seek God and spend more time talking with Him, as He permits, by grace in Jesus?

talke withe Him, listen to Him, abide in Him, rest in Him, do everything in Him with Him that HE WANTS.

always, everyday, everynight, all the time, walking WITH HIM IN UNION WITH HIM IN YAHSHUA(JESUS).

in line with ALL OF HIS WORD, "EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS....." , not just pickyness

as only a few out of the whole world do.....

no idols. no sacrilege. no re-crucifying Christ daily. no donkytrin of demons or traditions of evil men opposed to God.
simply no trusting any man (as in it is written "a few men are liars" ) (if you catch, learn, and know experientially with God that one, it's a START!)
no idolatrous scholars. no greedy lawyer-types. no liars. (yes- surprise - a big one affecting all)....


instead, disciples(students, pupils, followers) OF JESUS (NOT of ANY chruch)....
just like lambs or sheep sent out in the midst of ravenous wolves........ ON PURPOSE !!!!!! GOD'S PLAN!!!!!
Click to expand...
It's not wrong to preach against believers thinking they can get away with sin and evil. You have done so many times yourself, my friend. Also, one can still talk to God and discuss these issues with others.
 
Jason0047

Jason0047

Banned
#39
Jul 22, 2014
10,350
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#39
Agricola said:
King James Onlyism. That is the only reason you got all hot and bothered with the OP and went off wasting your time by writing countless posts about it.
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No, not true. If you will take note, I have refused to discuss the KJV issue in another recent KJV thread. My primary motivation in replying to this thread was to show the falsehood that believers cannot do evil or sin with the thinking they are saved.

Besides, I am not KJV Onlyism. I read other Modern Translations. I just happen to believe the KJV is divinely inspired and perfect based on the observable evidence that I have examined. I am not ignoring this point of topic, because I have already discussed it before and provided good reasons to back up what I have said on it.
 
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Agricola

Agricola

Senior Member
#40
Dec 10, 2012
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#40
It is simple really. Genuine beleivers who are born again and know Christ will end up being changed, people do stuff because the flesh is weak, genuine beleivers are remorseful and repent when they do it, even if its a weakness and tempation they are addicted to whatever.

People who say "ok I am saved and I can do what I like", I doubt are really saved as they would not behave in that way if they knew Christ and Holy Spirit.
 
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