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Does the bible teach that Jesus is God?
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Elected
Guest
John 1:1 (ISV) says: In the beginning, the Word (logos) existed. The Word (logos) was with God (ho theos), and the Word (logos) was God (theos).
Four truths about Jesus:
1. Jesus was “in the beginning”—He was present at creation. Jesus had existed eternally with God.
2. Jesus created ALL things! Colossians 1:16 (He could not be a created being).
3. Jesus is the same as God in nature—He “was God.” (theos)
4. Jesus had glory that belongs (only) to God the Father! 2 Peter 1:17. Jesus must be the same one God!
Let us shut down the argument about (ho theos) a definite article and (theos) without a definite article. Both words translate God! Example:
In reference to God (theos) is used without a definite article.
In reference to Jesus (ho theos) is used with a definite article several times.
If John wanted to teach us in John 1:1 that Jesus was godlike or divine, a god, he had an adjective (theios) that he could have used.
Four truths about Jesus:
1. Jesus was “in the beginning”—He was present at creation. Jesus had existed eternally with God.
2. Jesus created ALL things! Colossians 1:16 (He could not be a created being).
3. Jesus is the same as God in nature—He “was God.” (theos)
4. Jesus had glory that belongs (only) to God the Father! 2 Peter 1:17. Jesus must be the same one God!
Let us shut down the argument about (ho theos) a definite article and (theos) without a definite article. Both words translate God! Example:
In reference to God (theos) is used without a definite article.
- Luke 20:38 (ISV) He is not the God (theos) of the dead, but of the living, because he considers all people to be alive to him.” (No definite article)
In reference to Jesus (ho theos) is used with a definite article several times.
- Matthew 1: 23 (ISV) “See, a virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name him Immanuel,”[a) which means, “God (ho theos) with us.” (with a definite article).
- Hebrews 1:8 (ISV) But about the Son He (God) says, “Your throne, O God (ho theos), is forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter. (with a definite article).
If John wanted to teach us in John 1:1 that Jesus was godlike or divine, a god, he had an adjective (theios) that he could have used.
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Elected
Guest
The Bible says in Isaiah 42:8: “I am the LORD; that is my name my
glory I give to no other…”
We find God breaking that rule unless Jesus is the same one God. We read is 2 Peter 1:17 says: "For he (Jesus) received honor and glory from God the Father when these words from the Majestic Glory were spoken about him: “This is my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with him.”
We read in Exodus 20 :3-5 - You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not BOW down to them or worship them.
Again, God violates this one unless Jesus is the same one God! We in read Phi. 2: 9-10 says: At the name of Jesus every knee should BOW, in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. Jesus must be God!
glory I give to no other…”
We find God breaking that rule unless Jesus is the same one God. We read is 2 Peter 1:17 says: "For he (Jesus) received honor and glory from God the Father when these words from the Majestic Glory were spoken about him: “This is my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with him.”
We read in Exodus 20 :3-5 - You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not BOW down to them or worship them.
Again, God violates this one unless Jesus is the same one God! We in read Phi. 2: 9-10 says: At the name of Jesus every knee should BOW, in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. Jesus must be God!
1.no, the word was with God in john 1, present at creation, existed eternally with God.
2 no, go back to 1., word made things out of nothing, using Gods power
3 no , Jesus is the same, like his farther, sired by God, with Gods power.
4 no, the word gave up his glory he had with God, in love, now his glory returned to him.
no lets keep talking , i'm game
It does say the Word had no start, but I believe this to be the preincarnate Jesus for several reasons.
It's always interested me when people insist that the Doctrine of the Trinity is a byproduct of the Roman Catholic Church. At what point in history would you say the Roman Catholic Church "invented" such doctrine?
I found this to be a little confusing. Perhaps there is a language barrier. A consistent theme that I keep seeing you take issue with is the association of Jesus with the Word. For example,
Elected writes,
In response you write,
I'd like to hear you expand on this a bit more so that I can interact with your material. What and/or who is this Word that John 1 speaks of? Is the Word a "he," or an "it"? A person, or an inanimate object?
started aout same time Gods church started, simon bewitched the people ,
worshiped like a god, think he gave that up, sound like someone else we know, was bound .
after temple split, or pentacost my guess,
mystery inequity, believe a lie, they where [then] allready
4 simon and peter, church factions
3 nimrod and Abram , after flood
2.Abel and cain , pre flood
1.satan and God before garden,
5 and return, no influance of devil
6 and after reliesed once more,
7 new heaven
one third levin spoils the whole patch, one third angeles.
my view God sold everthing to buy that field,
so that tree could grow at the center of it, and feed the whole creation,
and looking for those jewels he could treasure, also being long suffering
the world that was, the current evil world, the world to come
but we are in the latter days, in this current generation told of long ago,
and work out youre own salvation with fear, prove things wrong for you not for me
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I was just checking out the forums before I was about to get ready for dinner. However, I would definitely like to respond to this.
I must admit, I am having a difficult time reading some of your material because of the layout.
I have a little time left in my evening, and wanted to respond to this just briefly.
If John wanted to portray the Logos as "a god," or "a divine one," he certainly had several methods of unambiguously doing so. Though, this is not comprehensive, one of the methods (and probably the most convincing simply because all it requires is changing the word order of John's words) John could have used to clearly portray the Logos as “a god” would have been through placement of the verb ἦν before the anarthrous predicate (ὁ λόγος ἦν θεὸς [“the Word was a god”]), compare with Acts 28.6 and John 1.6, and there placement of the verbs in each passage,
(i) αὐτὸν εἶναι θεόν (Acts 28.6, “he was a god”)
(ii) Ἐγένετο ἄνθρωπος (John 1.6, “There was a man”)
(iii) ὁ λόγος ἦν θεὸς (“the Word was a god”)
(ii) Ἐγένετο ἄνθρωπος (John 1.6, “There was a man”)
(iii) ὁ λόγος ἦν θεὸς (“the Word was a god”)
Alternatively, while Koine Greek does not possess an indefinite article, John could have even used εἷς, which can, and does at times function as an indefinite article, (see Bauer, Arndt and Gingrich: A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other Early Christian Literature states, “εἷς can mean exactly the same thing as the indefinite article” [pg. 231]) in order to indicate that “the Word was a god,” or “the Word was one of the gods,” see Matthew 8.19, Matthew 26.69 (μία, nominative singular feminine of εἷς), Revelation 8.13 (ἑνὸς, genitive singular masculine of εἷς), et al. That, or John could have made use of the indefinite pronoun τις to indicate that the Word was “a certain” god, but not the one he was referring to in John 1.1b (c.f. Mark 14.51, Luke 8.27, Luke 1.5, and Luke 11.1).
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Elected
Guest
Dr. William Mounce and Dr. David Black have said, the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ translation of John 1:1: ‘Ninety-nine percent of the scholars of the world who know Greek and who have helped translate the Bible are in disagreement with the Jehovah’s Witnesses.’
I asked Dr. William Mounce when I took Greek at Azusa Pacific University about the Jehovah Witnesses argument about John 1:1: The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation renders the last part of this verse, “The Word [Christ] was a god.” Witnesses believe that because there is no definite article (“ho”) in the Greek in reference to Christ, it must be that Christ is “a” God, not “the” God like the Father is. Hence, they believe that the Greek text of John 1:1 is saying that Jesus was not God Almighty but rather was godlike, divine, a god.
Dr. William Mounce pointed out: First, ‘If John wanted to teach us that Jesus was godlike or divine, a god, he (John) had an adjective (theios) that he could have used’.
Dr. William Mounce went on to say: ‘It is significant that “theos” without the definite article “ho” is used of the Father in the New Testament (Luke 20:38).
Bottom line: iI does not matter whether John did or did not use the definite article in John 1:1. But lets ask the question? Is a definite article ever used for describing God or Jesus? Answer: YES! (John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; Hebrews 1:8)
You CANNOT translate: Immanuel: a god with us. Correct translation: Immanuel: God (ho theos) with us.
I asked Dr. William Mounce when I took Greek at Azusa Pacific University about the Jehovah Witnesses argument about John 1:1: The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ New World Translation renders the last part of this verse, “The Word [Christ] was a god.” Witnesses believe that because there is no definite article (“ho”) in the Greek in reference to Christ, it must be that Christ is “a” God, not “the” God like the Father is. Hence, they believe that the Greek text of John 1:1 is saying that Jesus was not God Almighty but rather was godlike, divine, a god.
Dr. William Mounce pointed out: First, ‘If John wanted to teach us that Jesus was godlike or divine, a god, he (John) had an adjective (theios) that he could have used’.
Dr. William Mounce went on to say: ‘It is significant that “theos” without the definite article “ho” is used of the Father in the New Testament (Luke 20:38).
- Luke 20:38 (ISV) He is not the God (theos) of the dead, but of the living, because he considers all people to be alive to him.”
Bottom line: iI does not matter whether John did or did not use the definite article in John 1:1. But lets ask the question? Is a definite article ever used for describing God or Jesus? Answer: YES! (John 20:28; Matthew 1:23; Hebrews 1:8)
- John 20: 28 (ISV) Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God (ho theos)!”
- Matthew 1: 23 (ISV) “See, a virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and they will name him Immanuel,”[a) which means, “God (ho theos) with us.”
- Hebrews 1:8 (ISV) But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God (ho theos), is forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter.
You CANNOT translate: Immanuel: a god with us. Correct translation: Immanuel: God (ho theos) with us.
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Elected
Guest
First, Bauer, Arndt and Gingrich: A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament does not translate (theos: θεόν) a god!
Second, ‘It is significant that “theos” without the definite article “ho” is used of the Father in the New Testament (Luke 20:38).
Third, Jesus is the Word!
JESUS IS GOD!
Second, ‘It is significant that “theos” without the definite article “ho” is used of the Father in the New Testament (Luke 20:38).
- Luke 20:38 (ISV) He is not the God (theos) of the dead, but of the living, because he considers all people to be alive to him.” In this text is God (theos: θεόν) translated a god? ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Third, Jesus is the Word!
- John 1:1 (ESV) “In the beginning was the Word (Gr: Logos), and the Word (Logos) was with God (ho theos), and the Word (Logos) was God (theos).” Jesus is the (logos) Word and is God!
- John 1:3 (ESV) All things were made through him (Jesus), and without him (Jesus) was not any thing made that was made.
- John 1:10 (ISV) He (Jesus) was in the world, and the world was made through him (Jesus). Yet the world did not recognize him.
- John 1:14 (ISV) The Word (Jesus) became flesh and lived[e] among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father’s uniquely existing Son,[f] who is full of grace and truth.
JESUS IS GOD!
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at that prehistoric time of the first verse of John 1, the Word was not (yet) the Son of God.
He divested himself of His glory as a spirit divinity to be begotten as a human person.
He was made God’s Son, through being begotten or sired by God and born of the virgin Mary
He had blood like you and me, and could have [died] a sinner, all would have been lost.
so sorry , i am not a writer or very good at grammer and spelling, an no key board blunking abilities.
for some reason i type backwards or something, wife says i speak in riddles and rhymes.
the Word was [with] God , he used [the power] of God to create, as directed by God.
2 beings , not one , not three, but two seperate being , who now are called the father and son,a family
Jesus first begotten of men, and we can become sons of God also.
the spirit is the very power of God, not a third person, and called an [it] in places
The Greek parakletos (comforter) is masculine in gender, so translators used the personal pronouns he and him for the Greek masculine pronouns. In many languages, a word’s gender has nothing to do with whether the thing itself is literally male or female. For example, the Spanish word mesa (table) is feminine. Gender in language is a mere grammatical tool.
In Greek, as in English, the word spirit is neuter—neither masculine nor feminine in gender. Pneuma is the Greek word meaning “spirit.” It is always grammatically neuter,
properly represented by the English pronoun “it”
(John 1:32; Romans 8:16).
# 1 the word was in the beginning , Jesus was begotten later as a man
# 2 the word created everything, jesus was not called the word yet at creation.
# 3 Jesus was in his likeness, he only does what God tells him as spokesman, was a mortal man on earth.
#4 the word had his own glory with God in heaven,when Jesus was a man he did not have inmortalaty,
now Christ has his glory back, father and son together again, a family wanting children to love.
I hope this makes better sence then my last attempt.
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Prove-all, my friend, do you have a COG background? We believe the same things, just wondering where you learned the truth.
John my brother, i am not old enough to have been in cod, but have read things from them,
https://www.facebook.com/PhiladelphiaTrumpet
a very good place for world events happening now, that is in the bible.
https://www.thetrumpet.com/librarya
a good place to read past articles , also free bible study course material am studying.
hello again, my problem is i live in the far corner of the pacific north west.
no church in over 100 miles in my area with true knowledge of God to give.
spent 20 years in and out of going to sunday church, learned love of Christ and verses.
but there was just something missing, and come across the verse prove all thing, hold onto the truth.
so further study I found the answer, fear of the lord, all who follows get knowledge, happened to me.
now not only do i remember bible verses, i actualy know what it means most times.
still no church in my home town to go to, but i have my wife , who are one together,
but miss other fellowship and still looking for it.
John 8:19 Then they asked him, “Where is your father?” “You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”
John 14:8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul.
1 Chronicles 28:9 “And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the Lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
Matthew 4:7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
John 14:8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul.
1 Chronicles 28:9 “And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the Lord searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
Matthew 4:7 Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
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Elected
Guest
If Jesus is not God? Then God is an Idolater!
I am a little confused about some Bible texts: Yes I am not a novice in Bible study.
Matthew 1: 23 (ISV) says: “See, a virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son (Jesus), and they will name him (Jesus) Immanuel,”[a) which means, “God (ho theos) with us.”
Is Jesus name Immanuel? God with us! The greek word (ho theos) is used here. The beginning of John 1:1 says: In the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word (Logos) was with God (ho theos)..." Same exact word to describe God! Jesus is the wORD because John 1:14 says "The Word became flesh..."
Help me understand? The rest of John 1:1 says: "...the Word (Jesus) was God (theos)'.
Stiil more confusion? Is not God only able to create? Is Jesus a created being or Creator?
Romans 1:25 says: "They exchanged God’s truth for a lie and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen". People who worship and serve created things, rather than the Creator, have left the truth of God.
Why does Colossians 1:16 say Jesus Created ALL things? I thought only God can create?
Colossians 1:16 says: "For by him ALL things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Still more confusion? Exodus 20 :3-5 - "You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not bow down to them or worship them". NOT BOW DOWN OR WORSHIP!
Yet Philippians 2:9-11 says:" ...At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven, on earth, and under the earth".
This sounds like Idolatry if Jesus is a created being and not our Creator God. And of all things God is the Idolater. Breaking His own commands. The problem Malachi 3;6 says: “I am the LORD, and I do not change. God cannot change His mind and change His rules.
Still more confusion: Isaiah 42:8 says: “I am the LORD; that is my name my glory I give to no other…” God does not share His glory!
Yet we read in 2 Peter 1: 17: For he (Jesus) received honor and glory from God the Father when these words from the Majestic Glory were spoken about him: “This is my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with him.”
Again, this sounds like Idolatry if Jesus is a created being and not our Creator God. Jesus can only be same one God!
Can you help me out concerning these passages?
I am a little confused about some Bible texts: Yes I am not a novice in Bible study.
Matthew 1: 23 (ISV) says: “See, a virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son (Jesus), and they will name him (Jesus) Immanuel,”[a) which means, “God (ho theos) with us.”
Is Jesus name Immanuel? God with us! The greek word (ho theos) is used here. The beginning of John 1:1 says: In the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word (Logos) was with God (ho theos)..." Same exact word to describe God! Jesus is the wORD because John 1:14 says "The Word became flesh..."
Help me understand? The rest of John 1:1 says: "...the Word (Jesus) was God (theos)'.
Stiil more confusion? Is not God only able to create? Is Jesus a created being or Creator?
Romans 1:25 says: "They exchanged God’s truth for a lie and worshipped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen". People who worship and serve created things, rather than the Creator, have left the truth of God.
Why does Colossians 1:16 say Jesus Created ALL things? I thought only God can create?
Colossians 1:16 says: "For by him ALL things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Still more confusion? Exodus 20 :3-5 - "You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not bow down to them or worship them". NOT BOW DOWN OR WORSHIP!
Yet Philippians 2:9-11 says:" ...At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven, on earth, and under the earth".
This sounds like Idolatry if Jesus is a created being and not our Creator God. And of all things God is the Idolater. Breaking His own commands. The problem Malachi 3;6 says: “I am the LORD, and I do not change. God cannot change His mind and change His rules.
Still more confusion: Isaiah 42:8 says: “I am the LORD; that is my name my glory I give to no other…” God does not share His glory!
Yet we read in 2 Peter 1: 17: For he (Jesus) received honor and glory from God the Father when these words from the Majestic Glory were spoken about him: “This is my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with him.”
Again, this sounds like Idolatry if Jesus is a created being and not our Creator God. Jesus can only be same one God!
Can you help me out concerning these passages?
first the bible talks about the world ages
the world that was, the current evil world, and the world to come.
there has been good and evil factions in most every age, or generations..
1.God and satan before garden
2.Abel and cain , pre flood
3 Abram and nimrod , after flood
4 peter and simon, church faction after Jesus, still on going.
the bible says simon was worshiped like god, thinking he was god, bewitched the people,
was said he was bound in inequity, and did not repent his ways, but ask for prayer not to befall curses.
the mystery of inequity, that they would believe a lie, anti-christs they where [then] allready
in the world.that the times and laws of God would be changed by them, and is called a little horn, and mother of harlots.
the bible talks about false religion, that the world would follow, not the true small church,
but come from within.
The Catholic Encyclopedia reported:
“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
Council of Nicea, which took place in 325 A.D. This council decided that Sunday was to be the day of worship
and that Passover was to be observed on Sunday
First Council of Nicaea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
changed nature of the Son of God and his relationship to God the Father
establishing uniform observance of the date of Easter,
and promulgation of early canon law
they follow the roman rite,thats why they do easter, that was [before] Jesus, to stamp out Christ
worshiping other gods, and crown leaders now, also use the spear that killed Jesus, they claim.
the unholy roman empire[europe, germany leading, vaticans power, now has sunday law in all europe.
they worship on sunday, a rest day, no sale of merchandice,
and you have to buy things on saturday only, if you work 5 days a week.
5 Jesus returns, no influance of devil to decieve, locked up.
6 and after satan reliesed once more, at end of 1000 years, but hes put down very fast.
7 new heaven and earth, nothing corrupable in it,
God sold everthing to buy that field, the word became a man, he could have died.
God looking for those jewels he could treasure, men that worship him his way, with love
A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
It is like leaven, which a woman[church] took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread,
but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.
And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations;
ye shall keep [it] a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.ye shall keep [it] a feast by an ordinance for ever.
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;
but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
also verse that said one third sinning angeles cast to the earth
sorry again about my confusing format , im still learning, hope this helps
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