SAVED BY WORKS

[kennethcadwell]

Rom 8 : 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is alive because of righteousness

According to Ken this fact Paul wrote is not true.

A body can not be dead in sin while the spirit is alivem for the body would be carnal. and the spirit can not live when the body is carnal.

Thanks Ken, But I chose to trust Paul. Not a proud modern day pharisee

This scripture does not say anything about a person not being able to fall away from the faith.
It says if Christ is in you, the body is dead to sin because you will walk in the fruits of the Spirit, and the fruits produced of the Spirit are the opposite of sin (transgressions). Apostle Paul and Apostle James both expound on this and show that if you give back into sin and let it become your master again then it will lead you to death; not eternal life......

 

[michael56]

I do believe believing in Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness, but what I also do is not stop there as Paul did not stop there. For Apostle Paul showed that by abiding in Christ and walking in His righteousness will not lead one to sin. If a believer sins again it is because they were drawn away by their own lusts, and if they give into them and let them get full grown to where they control you again that leads to death and not eternal life; James clearly shows this in his epistle.
Apostle Paul does not just say the law is done away with all together, as he says it has its purpose and through faith we establish the law in our lives not void it. How do you establish it ? By walking in love because love does no wrong to others and is not disobedient. The commandments of the Lord should flow easily through a born again believer and not be looked at as burdens, because it is the Holy Spirit doing the work in and through us.

The bible makes it clear those who refuse to give up sins is because they love darkness more then light................

It is a strange message that states Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness but your sin can condemn you to hell.
In other words, you are not under a right standing before God of observing the law, but if you fail to observe it you lose your right standing with God.

Wisdom is always justified by its inconsistencies

It comes back to the same old thing. You do not understand the new covenant comes in two parts, not one. Though you have read the literal words of the core of the covenant you do not have understanding of what it means.

 

[kennethcadwell]

It is a strange message that states Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness but your sin can condemn you to hell.
In other words, you are not under a right standing before God of observing the law, but if you fail to observe it you lose your right standing with God.

Wisdom is always justified by its inconsistencies

It comes back to the same old thing. You do not understand the new covenant comes in two parts, not one. Though you have read the literal words of the core of the covenant you do not have understanding of what it means.

It is only strange when you are confusing the 613 Mosaic laws with God's moral laws.
We are not held to the written ordinances of the Mosaic laws as they are not for us under the new covenant, but we are still held by the Spirit to walk in and uphold His moral laws. You can not be put to death in the flesh, nor do you have to sacrifice animals to atone for breaking the Mosaic laws. You however if you disobey the Holy Spirits guidance and transgress the moral laws of God that are placed in our heart and in our mind there is no fear of the punishments from the Mosaic laws but a fearful expectation of facing judgment and the lake of fire. (Hebrews 10)

 

[MarcR]

Apostle Paul did not teach a person can not become impure do to sins again.
If you believe he did then you especially need to go reread 1st and 2nd Timothy, and in those epistles we have Apostle Paul warning Apostle Timothy of becoming impure again.


1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Timothy 4:6
If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, where unto thou hast attained.

1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Timothy 5:12
Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

1 Timothy 5:22
Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.


2 Timothy 3:14
But you must remain faithful to the things you have been taught. You know they are true, for you know you can trust those who taught you.

2 Timothy 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;


Apostle Paul believed some would lose their faith...............................

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

I think that the core of your misunderstanding lies in the false assumption that you need to be in or at something in order to depart from it.

Departure from established doctrine only need involve rejecting it.

 

[kennethcadwell]

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

I think that the core of your misunderstanding lies in the false assumption that you need to be in or at something in order to depart from it.

Departure from established doctrine only need involve rejecting it.

The scripture you give here from 1 Timothy does not disprove my stance, it proves what I have been saying all along.
Depart from the faith, meaning they leave it to not walk in it no more, but go to following after false doctrines. Just like Paul said about the Galatians, he shows they once walked in the gospel of Christ but then turned away to another gospel of justification of the law.
Go back and also look at 1 Timothy 5:22 where this is one of two times Paul warns Timothy about sins and to keep himself pure. Because Paul is showing he can become impure again do to sin.

 

[michael56]

It is only strange when you are confusing the 613 Mosaic laws with God's moral laws.
We are not held to the written ordinances of the Mosaic laws as they are not for us under the new covenant, but we are still held by the Spirit to walk in and uphold His moral laws. You can not be put to death in the flesh, nor do you have to sacrifice animals to atone for breaking the Mosaic laws. You however if you disobey the Holy Spirits guidance and transgress the moral laws of God that are placed in our heart and in our mind there is no fear of the punishments from the Mosaic laws but a fearful expectation of facing judgment and the lake of fire. (Hebrews 10)

Herein lies your misunderstanding. The Christian is not under a law of righteousness before God full stop. The mosaic law is not differentiated on this point from the Ten Commandments. The Apostle Paul speaks in Rom 7:4-6 of the need to die to a law of righteousness. He then gives an example from his own life as to why he had to die to a law of righteousness, note the example he gave:

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.(one of the Ten Commandments)”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

It is you who are confused Kenneth, for you do not understand the covenant

 

[kennethcadwell]

Herein lies your misunderstanding. The Christian is not under a law of righteousness before God full stop. The mosaic law is not differentiated on this point from the Ten Commandments. The Apostle Paul speaks in Rom 7:4-6 of the need to die to a law of righteousness. He then gives an example from his own life as to why he had to die to a law of righteousness, note the example he gave:

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.(one of the Ten Commandments)”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

It is you who are confused Kenneth, for you do not understand the covenant

No I am not confused because you are taking that one passage there and trying to make it do away with all the rest that the Apostle Paul said. He is saying in the passage you give the law showed him his sinful ways and need for a savior, and the reason the commandment that was to bring forth life brought forth death instead because man alone is weak in the flesh and the punishment in the Mosaic laws was to put those to death who break them.

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The law could not make people be perfect because we alone our weak because of fleshly lusts. However Christ is our strength and with Him He strengthens us were we are weak. Therefore by us abiding in Christ and Christ abiding in us we walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh. The Spirit establishes in our lives and upholds the law that the flesh can not do;


Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


[h=1]Romans 13:8-10
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.[/h]


1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

 

[michael56]

No I am not confused because you are taking that one passage there and trying to make it do away with all the rest that the Apostle Paul said. He is saying in the passage you give the law showed him his sinful ways and need for a savior, and the reason the commandment that was to bring forth life brought forth death instead because man alone is weak in the flesh and the punishment in the Mosaic laws was to put those to death who break them.

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

The law could not make people be perfect because we alone our weak because of fleshly lusts. However Christ is our strength and with Him He strengthens us were we are weak. Therefore by us abiding in Christ and Christ abiding in us we walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh. The Spirit establishes in our lives and upholds the law that the flesh can not do;


Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Romans 13:8-10
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.




1 John 3:24
And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code 4-6
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.[/SUP]
[SUP]9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.[/SUP]
[SUP]10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.[/SUP]
[SUP]11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 7-11

[/SUP]

 

[michael56]

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


.

Romans 3:31 comes at the end of a section that stresses the Christian has a righteousness before God apart from the law. It is in knowing that you will better uphold the law God wants you to keep, something you do not understand Kenneth. Your belief is exactly the same as most of the churches I spent my youth in.

You have clearly stated the Christian is not under right standing(righteousness) before God of the mosaic law, but they are the Ten Commandments. That leaves the power of sin firmly in place where those commandments are concerned.

I have copied your previous comments to my computer for future reference.
.

 

[kennethcadwell]

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code 4-6
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.[/SUP]
[SUP]9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.[/SUP]
[SUP]10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.[/SUP]
[SUP]11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 7-11

[/SUP]

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code


We need to use the whole scripture and not just highlight the part you want to go by, so notice how it says in the part I put in read serve in the Spirit. If you are still living a sinful lifestyle you are living by the written code and not by the Spirit. For the Spirit can not lead a person to sin, Christ can not deny Himself or His own moral laws.

I already explained verse 9 as the reason why death came through the commandment was because in the written form of ordinances breaking any one of the 10 commandments was punishable by physical death. We do not have to fear those punishments as we are not under the Mosaic laws, we are under God's grace and His moral laws placed in us through His Holy Spirit. How many times does the bible have to show and state walking in love does no wrong, upholds the commandments, and proves one's faith to be genuine to get people to understand a true faith hangs on love???

 

[dcontroversal]

Herein lies your misunderstanding. The Christian is not under a law of righteousness before God full stop. The mosaic law is not differentiated on this point from the Ten Commandments. The Apostle Paul speaks in Rom 7:4-6 of the need to die to a law of righteousness. He then gives an example from his own life as to why he had to die to a law of righteousness, note the example he gave:

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.(one of the Ten Commandments)”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.

It is you who are confused Kenneth, for you do not understand the covenant

Exactly.....I have been saying the same thing that the LAW is indicative of any LAW that is found under the O.T. and to distinguish between the Big 10 and the 613 Mosaic law contradicts what the bible states and teaches....the 613 and the big 10 are all applicable and Paul uses one of the big 10 to prove his point....keeping the law will save no one because of the following...

TO break ONE of the least of the commandments makes one guilty of the whole law
The law is weak thru the flesh
NO man can keep the law fully and or completely
The LAW points one to the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST
THE LAW leads us to the one who is the complete CURE ALL
CHRIST is the end of the righteousness of the law because CHRIST takes EVERY SIN we will ever COMMIT and it has been put to HIS account, while the righteousness of CHRIST has been IMPUTED unto the genuine believer by faith......

 

[kennethcadwell]

Exactly.....I have been saying the same thing that the LAW is indicative of any LAW that is found under the O.T. and to distinguish between the Big 10 and the 613 Mosaic law contradicts what the bible states and teaches....the 613 and the big 10 are all applicable and Paul uses one of the big 10 to prove his point....keeping the law will save no one because of the following...

TO break ONE of the least of the commandments makes one guilty of the whole law
The law is weak thru the flesh
NO man can keep the law fully and or completely
The LAW points one to the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST
THE LAW leads us to the one who is the complete CURE ALL
CHRIST is the end of the righteousness of the law because CHRIST takes EVERY SIN we will ever COMMIT and it has been put to HIS account, while the righteousness of CHRIST has been IMPUTED unto the genuine believer by faith......

If it contradicts scripture like you say why did Jesus and Paul both say that love upholds and fulfills all the commandments including the 10, but did not preach or teach on the rest of the Mosaic laws ???

The answer is simple because the written form of ordinances was done away with, not the moral aspect of them that is upheld by walking in love through the Spirit............

 

[gotime]

I think it is simple,

Repent means to turn away, to do a 180 turn. If you don't Repent then you are not saved. Repentance is a Gift from God through Christ.

Example of Repent, A thief steals but a thief who repents steals no more.

Stealing is sin but a thief who repents steals/sins no more. ( in regards to theft)

Apply this to all sin its that simple and yes its all the work of Christ in you.

If a thief still steals they have not repented and thus are not born again no matter what they claim.

 

[dcontroversal]

If it contradicts scripture like you say why did Jesus and Paul both say that love upholds and fulfills all the commandments including the 10, but did not preach or teach on the rest of the Mosaic laws ???

The answer is simple because the written form of ordinances was done away with, not the moral aspect of them that is upheld by walking in love through the Spirit............

The LAW is the LAW and the handwriting of ordinances have been removed, the condemnation of the LAW has been removed from those who are in Christ......

So tell me....The condemnation of the law and the death penalty was applied unto what LAWS............?

 

[kennethcadwell]

The LAW is the LAW and the handwriting of ordinances have been removed, the condemnation of the LAW has been removed from those who are in Christ......

So tell me....The condemnation of the law and the death penalty was applied unto what LAWS............?

So you once again avoid the question and come back with your own conjecture and a question.

Romans 3:31 and 13:9-10 Paul says by faith and walking in love we establish and uphold the law a.k.a. commandments of God.

The death penalty in the actual flesh came through the Mosaic written ordinance laws, that we are not held to.
We still have God's moral laws (Commandments) that is place in our hearts and minds as Apostle Paul clearly says, and the outcome for breaking them is the death penalty in the flesh but the second death in the lake of fire if you do not repent of your lawlessness.

So once again if all the law is what is spoken of is done away including the 10 commandments;

Why does Jesus and Paul both say faith and love establishes and upholds thus fulfilling the commandments of the Lord including the 10, but yet do not mention the rest of the Mosaic laws ?


I can and have posted a chart in the past and will do it again that shows everywhere the 10 Commandments are taught to be upheld in the faith by walking in the Spirit within the NT.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I think it is simple,

Repent means to turn away, to do a 180 turn. If you don't Repent then you are not saved. Repentance is a Gift from God through Christ.

Example of Repent, A thief steals but a thief who repents steals no more.

Stealing is sin but a thief who repents steals/sins no more. ( in regards to theft)

Apply this to all sin its that simple and yes its all the work of Christ in you.

If a thief still steals they have not repented and thus are not born again no matter what they claim.

I think this is the half of biblical repentance of a sinner that some forget about, or try to cancel away.
I have seen a couple of people on here try and say repentance is only going from unbelief to belief, and try to take the sin aspect out of it. But every time the bible speaks of repentance when it comes to us in the NT is about sin. It is a change of mind toward the past sinful life we once walked in that is enmity to God, and in the Godly sorrow we feel to turn us to walk away from that way.
Yes biblical repentance leads to a change in life and not to walk in the sins we previously walked in, and the fruits that is produced through a believer by the Holy Spirit will show that repentance is true because the Spirit does not lead one to sin.
The bible also says that walking in the Spirit will show in our outer actions/works/speech. Yet some will tell you they can continue to walk as Paul was talking in Romans 7 and still be saved, when Romans 8 has Paul saying he could not continue to walk carnally like that in 7 as it leads to death.

 

[dcontroversal]

So you once again avoid the question and come back with your own conjecture and a question.

Romans 3:31 and 13:9-10 Paul says by faith and walking in love we establish and uphold the law a.k.a. commandments of God.

The death penalty in the actual flesh came through the Mosaic written ordinance laws, that we are not held to.
We still have God's moral laws (Commandments) that is place in our hearts and minds as Apostle Paul clearly says, and the outcome for breaking them is the death penalty in the flesh but the second death in the lake of fire if you do not repent of your lawlessness.

So once again if all the law is what is spoken of is done away including the 10 commandments;

Why does Jesus and Paul both say faith and love establishes and upholds thus fulfilling the commandments of the Lord including the 10, but yet do not mention the rest of the Mosaic laws ?


I can and have posted a chart in the past and will do it again that shows everywhere the 10 Commandments are taught to be upheld in the faith by walking in the Spirit within the NT.

Answer the question....the death penalty and condemnation applied unto the 613 or the big 10? The condemnation of GOD no longer hangs over the head of those who have exercised faith...the reason you wont answer is because it contradicts the keeping of the law and or works for salvation....

 

[mailmandan]

That is a false premise on the teaching of Matthew 7:21-23. It was not of their works and believing in their works to earn salvation that kept them from receiving eternal life. That is interjected into that passage when it says no such thing. What kept them from receiving eternal life and the Lord saying to them He never knew them was because they continued to live a sinful lifestyle as well. They did not truly repent and give up their sinful ways, hince why they Lord said you who practice lawlessness. They did not obey the Lord to change from their former self, and thought they could continue to walk in the flesh and serve the Lord also.

Jesus said He NEVER knew them which meant they were NEVER saved. John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge. These many people did not have this relationship with Christ because they were not born again believers. It was their unbelief that kept them from receiving eternal life (John 3:18). These many people were clearly trusting in their works to save them...Lord, Lord, didn't WE do many wonderful works, in which their answer was a manifestation of their unbelief. Their works are what they were trusting in for salvation and not in CHRIST ALONE. Sound familiar?

They continued to live a sinful lifestyle because they were not children of God, but children of the devil. They did not do the will of the Father by looking to the Son and believing in Him to receive eternal life (John 6:40). Those who practice lawlessness/practice sin are children of the devil, not children of God (1 John 3:7-10). They did not repent and believe the gospel, so they did not become new creations in Christ, so disobedience to the Lord/walking in the flesh was the natural result. A bad tree cannot produce good fruit (Matthew 7:18). The false premise on the teaching of Matthew 7:21-23 is that these many people were "born again Christians" who did not receive eternal life (lost their salvation) because they practiced lawlessness/sin. These many people were lost because they did not believe in Him (cause) and practicing lawlessness/sin was the (effect).

 

[gotime]

Answer the question....the death penalty and condemnation applied unto the 613 or the big 10?The condemnation of GOD no longer hangs over the head of those who have exercised faith...the reason you wont answer is because it contradicts the keeping of the law and or works for salvation....

I agree with what you have said here about condemnation over the heads of those who exercise faith.

however it begs a question, what is faith and what are the results of that faith.

For if the results are that one keeps the law by fruit of the Spirit then one who does not keep the law is then out of faith and thus not born again and will not see the kingdom of God.

The point I am trying to make is maybe this discussion should move from arguments on works vs faith to what does it mean according to the bible to be in faith and what would the faith person say and do.

For example:

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Apparently Faith does not make the law void but rather establishes it.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Apparently being in Grace does not allow us to continue in sin.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Apparently not being under the law does not mean we can sin.

By the way the definition of sin has not changed, sin is the same as what sin was before Grace came. So apparently Paul teaches that Faith and Grace and not being under the law means one does not break the law being that is Paul's view of what sin is:

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So being that the law points out sin and sin is breaking it and not once any ware does sin change. Then it is clear is it not? that keeping the law is the result of being in Grace through faith and not under the law.

Which makes sense seen as the sinful nature is dead in Christ if we have faith in his death, and Christ lives in us if we have faith in His resurrection.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Answer the question....the death penalty and condemnation applied unto the 613 or the big 10? The condemnation of GOD no longer hangs over the head of those who have exercised faith...the reason you wont answer is because it contradicts the keeping of the law and or works for salvation....

I did answer your question but obviously you did not like what I wrote, or did not even read what I wrote......


Once again the death penalty of being put to death in the flesh did come through the Mosaic laws written ordinances.
Now we are still in the faith still held to the moral laws of God placed in our hearts and mind, and Paul and Jesus clearly show by being in the faith and walking in love establishes and upholds all the commandments including the 10. And continuing to break the commandments now being under grace no longer faces the death penalty in the flesh, but instead God's judgment and the lake of fire for trampling the blood of the Lord by continuing in disobedience to the faith.

Please stop trying to avoid my question by coming back with conjecture and questions of your own as if I avoided your when I clearly answered it.

Why does Jesus and Paul both show that faith and love will establish and uphold the commandments including the 10, thus fulfilling them if they do not apply and been done away with ???

The written form with ordinances was done away, not the moral commands......................