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Exactly and well said.
Women back when abortion was illegal still chose to put themselves at risk. And very often they died due to having a money hungry opportunist butcher of a doctor, if he was that, attempt the procedure he was paid in advance for.
Cemeteries bear out the end result of such barbarism as that afforded against women when they were given no lawful right to choose.
I met a man once who claimed to be Christian. In light of those facts I presented to him his response was: GOOD! They deserved to die thinking they had the right to kill a baby.
It's a horrible thing to think someone thinks like that while claiming they're pro-life. Of course he wasn't so. Not when he was so vocally anti-woman.
Women back when abortion was illegal still chose to put themselves at risk. And very often they died due to having a money hungry opportunist butcher of a doctor, if he was that, attempt the procedure he was paid in advance for.
Cemeteries bear out the end result of such barbarism as that afforded against women when they were given no lawful right to choose.
I met a man once who claimed to be Christian. In light of those facts I presented to him his response was: GOOD! They deserved to die thinking they had the right to kill a baby.
It's a horrible thing to think someone thinks like that while claiming they're pro-life. Of course he wasn't so. Not when he was so vocally anti-woman.
What statistics? Do you have a link?
Remember the Republican Congressman Trent Franks? [video=youtube;W1zaf2od9O8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1zaf2od9O8[/video] If you're not into the Young Turks commentator, Franks remarks start at the 39 second mark.
US National Library of Medicine National Institute of Health 1996:
[h=1]Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women.[/h] [h=3]Abstract[/h][h=4]OBJECTIVE:[/h]We attempted to determine the national rape-related pregnancy rate and provide descriptive characteristics of pregnancies that result from rape.
[h=4]STUDY DESIGN:[/h]A national probability sample of 4008 adult American women took part in a 3-year longitudinal survey that assessed the prevalence and incidence of rape and related physical and mental health outcomes.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.
[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h]Rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency. It is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies and is closely linked with family and domestic violence. As we address the epidemic of unintended pregnancies in the United States, greater attention and effort should be aimed at preventing and identifying unwanted pregnancies that result from sexual victimization.
Remember the Republican Congressman Trent Franks? [video=youtube;W1zaf2od9O8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1zaf2od9O8[/video] If you're not into the Young Turks commentator, Franks remarks start at the 39 second mark.
US National Library of Medicine National Institute of Health 1996:
[h=1]Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women.[/h] [h=3]Abstract[/h][h=4]OBJECTIVE:[/h]We attempted to determine the national rape-related pregnancy rate and provide descriptive characteristics of pregnancies that result from rape.
[h=4]STUDY DESIGN:[/h]A national probability sample of 4008 adult American women took part in a 3-year longitudinal survey that assessed the prevalence and incidence of rape and related physical and mental health outcomes.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]The national rape-related pregnancy rate is 5.0% per rape among victims of reproductive age (aged 12 to 45); among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year. Among 34 cases of rape-related pregnancy, the majority occurred among adolescents and resulted from assault by a known, often related perpetrator. Only 11.7% of these victims received immediate medical attention after the assault, and 47.1% received no medical attention related to the rape. A total 32.4% of these victims did not discover they were pregnant until they had already entered the second trimester; 32.2% opted to keep the infant whereas 50% underwent abortion and 5.9% placed the infant for adoption; an additional 11.8% had spontaneous abortion.
[h=4]CONCLUSIONS:[/h]Rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency. It is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies and is closely linked with family and domestic violence. As we address the epidemic of unintended pregnancies in the United States, greater attention and effort should be aimed at preventing and identifying unwanted pregnancies that result from sexual victimization.
ONE MORE TIME:
Exodus 21:22-25 (NIV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]"If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely
{This would be UNINTENTIONAL ABORTION, so imagine what GOD thinks of DELIBERATE ABORTION.}
but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
GOD obviously considers Abortion murder.
Now TRY to support your position with ANY verse from the Bible.
GOD forms every part a human being in the the WOMB, including that human being's spirit.
Zechariah 12:1 (NIV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares:
Job 31:15 (NKJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Did not He who made me in the womb make them? {The implied answer is YES!}
Did not the same One fashion us in the womb?
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OK, let's look at the Bible shall we?
Let's also remember that God murdered the first born of every Egyptian household in Exodus, after he hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he wouldn't immediately let the Israelites go. That would mean not only the first born humans, but those who were first born to be still in utero, as well as all first born creatures in Egypt. Animals as it were.
Then there's the flood where all life but the family of Noah were drowned. That would mean every last pregnant woman drowned.
Then there's the slaughter of the Midianites whom God commanded be killed by Moses and his fellows.
Then there are these verses: Hosea 9:11-16, Hosea 13:16 [NIV]The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God.They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.”
There are other verses that pertain to infanticide, abortion, in the Bible. And all at God's command. We can't as Christians use the Bible as a weapon against a woman's right of personal choice when the Bible is a weapon against itself.
Now, to be fair, if someone rebuts these verses by saying: Well, that's God! He can do anything he wants because he is God.
Realize, you have lost the argument then to say that abortion is against God and his word.
Therefore, how is it we can argue a woman should be lawfully forced to remain pregnant against her will, because it is God's will she not abort? When the Bible carries verses wherein God aborted women, killed newborns, had babies in the womb ripped from their mothers, and thus proponents of laws forcing women to remain pregnant are in effect commanding the woman of today attain by man's law a higher moral standard, under force of law, than that which God exampled in his word?
Let's also remember that God murdered the first born of every Egyptian household in Exodus, after he hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he wouldn't immediately let the Israelites go. That would mean not only the first born humans, but those who were first born to be still in utero, as well as all first born creatures in Egypt. Animals as it were.
Then there's the flood where all life but the family of Noah were drowned. That would mean every last pregnant woman drowned.
Then there's the slaughter of the Midianites whom God commanded be killed by Moses and his fellows.
Then there are these verses: Hosea 9:11-16, Hosea 13:16 [NIV]The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God.They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.”
There are other verses that pertain to infanticide, abortion, in the Bible. And all at God's command. We can't as Christians use the Bible as a weapon against a woman's right of personal choice when the Bible is a weapon against itself.
Now, to be fair, if someone rebuts these verses by saying: Well, that's God! He can do anything he wants because he is God.
Realize, you have lost the argument then to say that abortion is against God and his word.
Therefore, how is it we can argue a woman should be lawfully forced to remain pregnant against her will, because it is God's will she not abort? When the Bible carries verses wherein God aborted women, killed newborns, had babies in the womb ripped from their mothers, and thus proponents of laws forcing women to remain pregnant are in effect commanding the woman of today attain by man's law a higher moral standard, under force of law, than that which God exampled in his word?
M
I do understand the argument for abortion in extreme cases ie. incest or rape - where the woman did not put herself in a vulnerable position - perhaps even severe disabilities, although in the case of the latter there have been cases where mothers have been offered abortions and the child had been born completely normal. Of course in a perfect world incest, rape and disability would not exist - God never intended it to exist and because it does we are left in a dilemma on how to "fix" it. I still don't think I could agree that abortion is the answer but I understand the viewpoint of those who do.
Regardless of all this, my guess is that 90% of all abortions are for convenience purposes and because of carelessness and bad decision making. Wouldn't it be just amazing to eliminate the 90% before moving on to the dilemma of the 10%?
Regardless of all this, my guess is that 90% of all abortions are for convenience purposes and because of carelessness and bad decision making. Wouldn't it be just amazing to eliminate the 90% before moving on to the dilemma of the 10%?
K
One of the most common arguments abortion advocates make in defense of legal abortion is that making abortion illegal will cause women to go to the "back alleys" and obtain unsafe abortions. They cite how thousands of women died as a result of unsafe abortions before abortion was legalized through the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision.
Regarding the myth of "back-alley abortions," Dr. Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of the National Abortion Rights Action League, admits that his group lied about the number of women who died from illegal abortions when testifying before the Supreme Court in 1972. "We spoke of 5,000 - 10,000 deaths a year.... I confess that I knew the figures were totally false ... it was a useful figure, widely accepted, so why go out of our way to correct it with honest statistics?"
Furthermore, the claim that thousands of maternal deaths occurred due to illegal abortion doesn't measure up when compared with other statistics. About 50,000 women of child-bearing age die each year - from all causes combined. To suggest that 10,000 of these deaths were from illegal abortion would make that the cause of one out of every five deaths, or twenty percent. This would have made illegal abortion the leading cause of death among women in that age group.
According to data from the National Center for Health Statistics, the legalization of abortion was not responsible for reducing abortion-related deaths. The discovery of antibiotics in the 1940's actually reduced all deaths by providing effective treatment for infections. The National Center for Heath Statistics reveals that before 1941, there were over 1,400 abortion-related deaths. Yet, after Penicillin became available to control infections, the number of deaths was reduced in the 1950's to approximately 250 per year. By 1966, with abortion still illegal in all states, the number of deaths had dropped steadily to 120. New and better antibiotics, better surgery and the establishment of intensive care units in hospitals all led to such a decrease.
Between 1967 and 1970 sixteen states legalized abortion. In most it was limited, only for rape, incest, severe fetal handicaps or deformities, and when the pregnancy jeopardized the life of the mother (all of which constitute only 5% of the abortion cases today).
Legalizing abortion should have eliminated some deaths related to illegal abortions, but that is not the case. In the years from 1963-1969, there were an average of approximately 55 deaths per year due to illegal abortions. In 1970, after this initial wave of laws legalizing abortions, there were 109. Deaths from illegal abortions actually increased.
By the year before the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision allowing legal abortion on demand in all fifty states, the death rate for illegal abortions had fallen to 24 in 1972 (with 25 additional deaths as a result of legal abortions). In 1973, there should have been a sharp drop in abortion-related deaths with abortion legal in all fifty states and "back-alley abortions" eliminated with their alleged total of maternal deaths. Yet abortion-related deaths increased again with 25 deaths resulting from legal abortion in 1973, 26 in 1974 and 29 in 1975.
Some have claimed that the number of illegal abortion-related deaths were not reported accurately or were underreported. Yet, when a woman was seriously injured by an abortion, she went to another doctor for care. The abortion practitioner was rarely involved at that point and the new doctor in many cases had to attempt to save the mother's life. In cases of maternal death, this new doctor was required to report, and falsification of the death certificate was a felony. Therefore, prior to legalization of abortion, it's safe to say that deaths from illegal abortions were rarely covered up.
Another important point is that many of the abortion practitioners performing abortions after Roe v. Wade were the same people performing illegal abortions. In the July 1960 edition of the American Journal of Public Health, an article by Dr. Mary Calderon, then medical director of Planned Parenthood, stated:
"90% of illegal abortions are being done by physicians. Call them what you will, abortionists, or anything else, they are still physicians, trained as such... They must do a pretty good job if the death rate is as low as it is... Abortion, whether therapeutic or illegal, is in the main no longer dangerous, because it is being done well by physicians."
Here is a candid admission that not only are illegal abortions not being done by quack doctors, but that the death rate from illegal abortions was "low." This flies in the face of claims of several thousand women losing their lives to illegal abortions and the claim that illegal abortions were performed by quack doctors and not by physicians.
In conclusion, there were not several thousand women losing their lives due to illegal abortions performed by quack doctors. Effective medical treatments helped reduce abortion related deaths and the legalization of abortion never played a significant role (and never will) in affecting the numbers of women who died from legal or illegal abortion-related deaths. That women continue to die from so-called "safe, legal" abortions (perhaps in greater numbers than we know) is a clear indication that abortion is unsafe and hurts women - legal or otherwise.
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/f...hanson-exposes-lies-of-american-pro-abortion-
K
God is the creator of life,you and I arent.He has a right to take us home according to His will.You and I dont. Thy will be done on earth as in heaven.You and I have no right to take a life except for the provision in the Bible of punishment for murder.Neither do we have the right to question what God does.Its as simple as that.If you created humans you'd have the same rights.
Again this is nonsense to me.To say "should a woman be pregnant against her will?!" Nope,dont have sex outside of marriage or have sex when you are ready for children. Stats show there is a 100% chance of getting pregnant after having sex
Women need to think about that before they start complaining about rights and my body.Grow up and take responsibility.Who knows we may have killed the person with the cure to cancer?
God is the creator of life,you and I arent.He has a right to take us home according to His will.You and I dont. Thy will be done on earth as in heaven.You and I have no right to take a life except for the provision in the Bible of punishment for murder.Neither do we have the right to question what God does.Its as simple as that.If you created humans you'd have the same rights.
Again this is nonsense to me.To say "should a woman be pregnant against her will?!" Nope,dont have sex outside of marriage or have sex when you are ready for children. Stats show there is a 100% chance of getting pregnant after having sex Women need to think about that before they start complaining about rights and my body.Grow up and take responsibility.Who knows we may have killed the person with the cure to cancer?
Again this is nonsense to me.To say "should a woman be pregnant against her will?!" Nope,dont have sex outside of marriage or have sex when you are ready for children. Stats show there is a 100% chance of getting pregnant after having sex
Women need to think about that before they start complaining about rights and my body.Grow up and take responsibility.Who knows we may have killed the person with the cure to cancer?
and also, the CDC and FDA have a cure for cancer..for every disease..they just don't want us to know that.
Why do you want to defend abortion so much? What drives your passion? Women's rights? Past mistakes? Why support killing babies so adamantly when you profess to know the love of Jesus? Does Jesus support abortion Frog? What makes you want people to think it's ok so bad? I think that's the bigger question here. Why do you say God OK's abortion? He doesn't and I see many scriptures posted here saying he doesn't. You've yet to post 1 that says He does want us to abort His unborn creations.
You just fulfilled my prior statement.
Not possible. All things happen as that which is predestined before the foundation of the world (per scripture) according to God's will, for his glory, and according to his plan.
When God wants us to have a cure for cancer that cure shall come forth. At least in the lab. Whether or not it shall come forth in medical practice is debatable when it would mean that all cancer research and those charities invested in acquiring funding for said research, stand to lose billions per annum once a cure is found.
Never underestimate greed over healing.
Again this is nonsense to me.To say "should a woman be pregnant against her will?!" Nope,dont have sex outside of marriage or have sex when you are ready for children. Stats show there is a 100% chance of getting pregnant after having sex Women need to think about that before they start complaining about rights and my body.Grow up and take responsibility.Who knows we may have killed the person with the cure to cancer?
Women need to think about that before they start complaining about rights and my body.Grow up and take responsibility.Who knows we may have killed the person with the cure to cancer?
When God wants us to have a cure for cancer that cure shall come forth. At least in the lab. Whether or not it shall come forth in medical practice is debatable when it would mean that all cancer research and those charities invested in acquiring funding for said research, stand to lose billions per annum once a cure is found.
Never underestimate greed over healing.
K
[h=6]Abortion Myths[/h]Abortion advocates often use a coat hanger to symbolize the "age of back-alley abortions" where women were forced to seek abortions from "unqualified butchers." The number of women who died from illegal "back-alley" abortions was often said to be in the thousands. However, according to the U.S. Bureau of Vital Statistics, there were only 39 women who died from illegal abortions in 1972.
To describe illegal abortion providers as unqualified is hardly accurate. Former medical director of Planned Parenthood, Dr. Mary Calderone, described in a 1960 American Journal of Health article that a study in 1958 showed that 84 percent to 87 percent of all illegal abortions were performed by licensed physicians in good standing. Dr. Calderone concluded that "90 percent of all illegal abortions are presently done by physicians." So it seems that the "back-alley butchers" of January 21, 1973, became "caring doctors who believe in a woman's right to choose" on January 22, 1973.
In 1978, the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology stated the legalization of abortion "has had no major impact on the number of women dying from abortion" since the results of a study they completed showed that over 90 percent of all illegal abortions were performed by licensed physicians.
Abortion advocates will also claim that a million American women each year were undergoing illegal abortions before Roe v. Wade. Statistics from the Centers for Disease Control show that these statements are highly misleading. The CDC reports that after abortion was legalized in January of 1973, there were 615,831 legal abortions. In 1976 when there were 988,267 abortions. There weren't over a million legal abortions a year in the United States until the end of 1977, five years after abortion was made legal in all states.
Abortion was legal in a handful of states (New York, Alaska, Hawaii, Washington, New Jersey, Vermont, and California) before Roe v. Wade and the CDC reports that there were 586,760 legal abortions in 1972.
No, you attempted to renounce the prior statement. You did not prove it is invalid. You can't and use the Bible as your foundational argument that God is anti-abortion and pro-life.
And I respect that you don't want to derail the thread. However, in closing that remark I'll say that you should perhaps search the scriptures for those that pertain to God and his predestination of the world and our existence. As well as his foreknowledge to that end. Being he is omniscient and omnipotent, those two topics cannot be avoided in scripture.
And I respect that you don't want to derail the thread. However, in closing that remark I'll say that you should perhaps search the scriptures for those that pertain to God and his predestination of the world and our existence. As well as his foreknowledge to that end. Being he is omniscient and omnipotent, those two topics cannot be avoided in scripture.