Sabbath

[michael56]

It angers people when they realize there is nothing they can do and must rely on the work of the cross. All I can do is place my faith in the cross. That is my only hope.

Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision(ie law), why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. Ga5:11

Why is the true offence of the cross not preaching law?

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[SUP][a][/SUP] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith Phil3:9

 

[ChristInUs]

Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision(ie law), why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. Ga5:11

Why is the true offence of the cross not preaching law?

not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in[SUP][a][/SUP] Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith Phil3:9

Because the preaching of the cross offends the flesh I>E law keeping. The flesh loves rules, because it is what you do and not what God did. The just shall live by faith. Faith in what? law keeping? or faith in the work of the cross? You pick your soul depends on it.

 

[gotime]

Because the preaching of the cross offends the flesh I>E law keeping. The flesh loves rules, because it is what you do and not what God did. The just shall live by faith. Faith in what? law keeping? or faith in the work of the cross? You pick your soul depends on it.

Keeping the law is offensive to the flesh also. for the flesh loves sin and hates righteousness.

 

[ChristInUs]

Keeping the law is offensive to the flesh also. for the flesh loves sin and hates righteousness.

The flesh loves self righteousness and the law points that out as it was intended by God.

 

[gotime]

The flesh loves self righteousness and the law points that out as it was intended by God.

Our nature would love to be able to simply tick the boxes and then say Lord, Lord look what we have done in your name.

thank you God that I am not like these sinners etc.

Sad delusion, but equally sad is the delusion that salvation is a license to sin. The Devil has a trap for all sorts.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Keeping Sabbath is what you do and boast in it. The cross will not let you boast.

I didn't see anybody boast about it, but what I do see is people hiding behind cheap grace to sin as they please.

 

[michael56]

I didn't see anybody boast about it, but what I do see is people hiding behind cheap grace to sin as they please.

Think of the person you love the most. If you harmed them, you have to pay the penalty of the law of the land you live in for harming them don't you. What if the penalty for harming them could be removed from your life? Would you then want to harm the person you loved the most because there was no penalty to pay for your actions? No! But however much you loved them, you would never act perfectly towards them, for you live in weak human flesh
Why would you not harm them if the penalty was removed? Because you love them.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Think of the person you love the most. If you harmed them, you have to pay the penalty of the law of the land you live in for harming them don't you. What if the penalty for harming them could be removed from your life? Would you then want to harm the person you loved the most because there was no penalty to pay for your actions? No!
Why not? Because you love them.

Michael, I will repeat myself until one day it will hopefully make sense to you. The law was NEVER a tool for salvation.

God place relationship with Him higher than anything but if we love Him we will follow His commandments (Yeshua's words not mine).

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

 

[michael56]

Michael, I will repeat myself until one day it will hopefully make sense to you. The law was NEVER a tool for salvation.

God place relationship with Him higher than anything but if we love Him we will follow His commandments (Yeshua's words not mine).

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

I grew up in a church that said pretty much that if we loved Jesus we would obey his commandments. I guess I was just a bit naïve and simplistic. I knew what Jesus commandments were. I also knew I could not obey them on the inside. I guessed it must be a case of me not loving God, otherwise I would be obeying the law/commandments of God. Ialsdo believed the folks who went to church each week and stressed what upright holy lives we must live, were themselves practising what they preached. I assumed they acted 24/7 as I saw them act in church on a Sunday. I became crushed, and broken at my inability to prove my love for God.
You see, to me, when we attach to love for God obeying the literal commands of scripture, we then hang our hope of Heaven on obeying those commands. I do not mean you, but that is the way it so often comes across. When I finally read Paul's letters I learn the truth, but not until I read them.
From my own experience, preaching obedience, in whatever form, while not alongside that plainly preaching the message of grace given to those to preach who had been filled with the Holy Spirit can be lethal, as has been seen in many who have gone to various churches
Please, this is not a criticism of you, I like you but an observation as to the pitfalls and what can often lead to misunderstanding of the message.
At the end of the day, we all rely on the love, mercy and compassion of God to attain Heaven, not the proof of our obedience being reflected, for we all fall woefully short at times

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

At the end of the day, we all rely on the love, mercy and compassion of God to attain Heaven, not the proof of our obedience being reflected, for we all fall woefully short at times

I agree, we all need grace as we are hopeless sinners and by God's grace alone we will make it to heaven one day. Yeshua told us is yoke is not a heavy burden and that is why we should keep on fighting the good fight.

 

[john832]

the two (love)not the ten.

The Two are the Summary of the Ten...

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," "YOU SHALL NOT MURDER," "YOU SHALL NOT STEAL," "YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS," "YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." - NKJV

You don't really believe that the summation of a subject does away with all the points in it do you? The Diaglott has this...

Rom 13:9 That for: Not thou shalt commit adultery. Not thou shalt commit murder. Not thou shalt steal. Not thou shalt covet; and if any other commandment, in this the word it is brought under one head, in this: Thou shalt love the neighbor of thee as thyself.

Here is an outline for you...

LOVE

I) Love God

A) Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

B) Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

C) Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

D) Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

II) Love Your Neighbor

A) Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

B) Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

C) Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

D) Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.

E) Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

F) Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

 

[john832]

the ten show you that you have not met GODS standard of perfection and need a savoir.Once you realize that then move on to grace.

But its GOD that teaches the ten just condemn.

Got some scripture for that? I read something entirely different here...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[john832]

The law is not done away with for the lawless but it is done away with for those under grace and JESUS said that he is faithful to forgive us of our sins if we confess our sins.
the law was not made for the righteous but it was made for the lawless because a person should recognize their guilt before they will truly believe they are guilty.
Remember that its the spirit that gives life the body counts for nothing and since the spirit and the body lust against each other and JESUS said that the words that he spoke were spirit and life then the spirit is the truth.

So, since there is no sin when there is no Law...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

What is sin? Can a converted person sin? If he can, what would that sin be? Can you answer this?

 

[john832]

Does the law forgive you if you do not meet the ten commandments,are you trying real hard.
lol

Hmmm, if there is no Law, I don't need forgiveness for breaking it and therefore don't need a Savior. Is that about a slap in the face for the One who died the terrible, painful death to pay for my sins?

 

[john832]

what if you do not meet the ten commandments?

Apparently something you have never experienced...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

And I do this every day, just as Christ instructed...

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: ...
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

 

[john832]

I liked your post because I saw scripture but although GOD desires man to keep the law we know that no man can keep the law so then JESUS fulfilled the law for man and gave Grace to all those that believe in the WORD of GOD

Since no man can keep the Law perfectly, don't even try? Hmmm, seems like an odd way to approach it.

This "no man can keep the Law" refrain sort of flies in the face of this...

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

[john832]

It seems to me that there are too many here who are trying to observe the Law and not dying to the Law through the body of Christ that they might be married to another, even to Him Who is raised from the dead, that we may bear fruit into God (Rom 7.4).

We live the Christian life, not by striving to keep the Law but by reckoning ourselves as dead to sin (and the Law) and alive unto God through Jesus Christ our LORD (Rom 6.11). Our need is Christ living through us (Gal 2.20). Not the dead letter but the live Spirit writing in our hearts. (2 Cor 3.3) Not in the written code but in the Spirit, for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life (2 Cor 3.6).

Sadly this is what a false emphasis on 'observing the Sabbath' brings us to!!

.

Let me ask you a question, do you also think it is a putting a false emphasis on this Commandment?

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Do you treat it with the same disdain you do the fourth one?

Let me revise your quote and see if you agree with it...

Sadly this is what a false emphasis on 'thou shalt not kill' brings us to!!

 

[john832]

It is significant that Jesus actually NEVER said anything about observing the Sabbath. Much of His struggle was AGAINST those who strictly observed the Sabbath.

True He said that it was for man's benefit, but He then pointed out that He had the right to change it. And change it He did from resting on the Sabbath to doing good on the Sabbath. That is why after the New Testament days the emphasis on the Sabbath was as a day for doing good.

Never said much about this either did He?

Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

That make using God's name in a filthy, profane way acceptable? It is not important how we use God's name? No more important than any other Commandment?

 

[mailmandan]

Keeping Sabbath is what you do and boast in it. The cross will not let you boast.

boast in Christ and Him crucified.

Amen! Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Let me ask you a question, do you also think it is a putting a false emphasis on this Commandment?

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Do you treat it with the same disdain you do the fourth one?

Let me revise your quote and see if you agree with it...

Valid point, who are we to place more emphasis on one commandment? If YHWH wrote them with His own hands why not accept them as important and forget about the manmade doctrines. Rather take the chance on God than on man...