"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[eternally-gratefull]

Psalms 14:2-3, The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy, there is none that doeth good, no, not one. This is who God had to choose from and then had to make provision to redeem them back by sending his Son to be a sacrifice for their sins. If God, as you think, chose those that he had foreknowledge of their good works, then that would be an "eternal salvation by works". It is not of works, lest any man should boast.

lol, that is where you are confused.

God did not predetermine based on good works. if that was so, the law could save us, and our good deeds would save us and we could take credit.

God predetermined based on his sons work. and who would freely recieve his work (which takes complete humility, which is not something to boast of, but in our world. is something to be ashamed of)

when I chose to trust God. I am not doing a work. or doing something to save myself. I am admitting I can not save myself. and need his salvation. Thus God gets all the credit.

 

[forsha]

What does John 6 have to do with the word "world" in the passages you origionaly spoke of (in which my response was Given?

Seems like your trying to pull a fast one here.

I am not trying to pull a fast one on you, just asking you to explain some scriptures, if you can.

 

[forsha]

lol, that is where you are confused.

God did not predetermine based on good works. if that was so, the law could save us, and our good deeds would save us and we could take credit.

God predetermined based on his sons work. and who would freely recieve his work (which takes complete humility, which is not something to boast of, but in our world. is something to be ashamed of)

when I chose to trust God. I am not doing a work. or doing something to save myself. I am admitting I can not save myself. and need his salvation. Thus God gets all the credit.

If our eternal salvation is based upon God's Son doing good works, then why do you not give him credit for securing eternal salvation for those he died for ,as stated in John 6:39, instead of only giving him credit for offering to save all mankind and not being able to?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If our eternal salvation is based upon God's Son doing good works, then why do you not give him credit for securing eternal salvation for those he died for ,as stated in John 6:39, instead of only giving him credit for offering to save all mankind and not being able to?

I do give him credit.

He saved me, I did not save myself.

Anyone who gets saved is based on his work alone. those who trust self and their own works, or do not trust God at all (think they do not need saved) are lost forever.

God still gets the credit of being a loving God, because he died for them also. They rejected him, he did not reject them.

God is not a god in your belief system, he is a respecter of persons. and condemns people to hell without even giving them a chance to trust in him (he did not allow them to even if they wanted to)

 

[kennethcadwell]

no, WE are not in the equation. for WE can do nothing to be good enough to earn salvation. the law still condemns us.

Thanks, you just proved you preach works (we must) and not grace (we can't/dont deserve)

Then don't get baptized, don't repent of your sins, don't confess the Lord before others, and don't forgive others and see where it gets you. That is all I have to say because if you truly obeyed the two greatest commands given by God through the Lord then you would obey those as well, but if you deny those it shows your faith is not in Christ. And if you teach others to deny those as well then you are really diving into a false gospel message. Keep teaching your limitations gospel, as I will stick to the what the bible says about believers.........


Mark 9:23
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.

1 John 4:8
The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not trying to pull a fast one on you, just asking you to explain some scriptures, if you can.

well you did not even mention john 6 in the post. So trying to use it in my response about the rest was like trying to pull a fast one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then don't get baptized, don't repent of your sins, don't confess the Lord before others, and don't forgive others and see where it gets you. That is all I have to say because if you truly obeyed the two greatest commands given by God through the Lord then you would obey those as well, but if you deny those it shows your faith is not in Christ. And if you teach others to deny those as well then you are really diving into a false gospel message. Keep teaching your limitations gospel, as I will stick to the what the bible says about believers.........


Mark 9:23
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.

1 John 4:8
The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

I was baptized by God. And I love because God first loved me.

everything else proceded out of that love.

I love because I was saved, not to get saved (which is what you preach) which is why you preach a gospel of works. not grace.

ps, I did get baptised in water, only not to get saved, but because God saved me. And I wanted to please the one who loved me more than anyone else could.

 

[PeterJens]

Jesus said, paid in full (his literal words) it was finished, because it was finished,

If he came off the cross that moment, we would still be saved who trust in him, However, if he left as he did when he ascended, what hope could we have? where would the firstfruits be? How could we be assured the father accepted his payment in full.

Again, Your making no sense, if physical death was payment, then jesus died in vein, we all die physically so we could pay for our own sin.

He is the second adam. Adam was created perfect (I am born dead to God) Jesus was born perfect.

Adam died because of his own sin, and that death was passed to all mankind, thus all are dead and must be made alive.

Jesus died when my sin was placed on his body, (not of his own sin) so I could be made alive, and be in Christ.

If your in adam, your dead (even though you are physically alive) because that was the punishment for sin.

Physical death is a natural result of sin, not the punishment.

I have a simple answer to your points. Jesus died and rose again. I am called to believe in Him. I am not called to dissect or analyse which part meant what theologically, but understand who he was, his nature, that he will give me eternal life for trusting in him. So many years believers have asked is this the important step or that one. Do you think it matters to us? This is Gods universe, His rules, His promises, His fulfillment. He summarised it and told us time and again what we need to do. I get the feeling you want all to correct Him, and say this part is important, this part he did this or that, when all of this is unknown, merely conjecture. Our entry into the Kingdom is to learn how to love from the heart. Anything else is a distraction. Love is what the world is crying out for, what the orphan or widow feels deeply in their hearts. So be careful not to be a pharisee or legalist, putting emphasis not on need and supply but theology and speculation.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have a simple answer to your points. Jesus died and rose again. I am called to believe in Him. I am not called to dissect or analyse which part meant what theologically, but understand who he was, his nature, that he will give me eternal life for trusting in him. So many years believers have asked is this the important step or that one. Do you think it matters to us? This is Gods universe, His rules, His promises, His fulfillment. He summarised it and told us time and again what we need to do. I get the feeling you want all to correct Him, and say this part is important, this part he did this or that, when all of this is unknown, merely conjecture. Our entry into the Kingdom is to learn how to love from the heart. Anything else is a distraction. Love is what the world is crying out for, what the orphan or widow feels deeply in their hearts. So be careful not to be a pharisee or legalist, putting emphasis not on need and supply but theology and speculation.....

lol, it seems we agree.

I was just answering a question thats all, if it is to deep for you. then I am sorry.

 

[MarcR]

lol, that is where you are confused.

God did not predetermine based on good works. if that was so, the law could save us, and our good deeds would save us and we could take credit.

God predetermined based on his sons work. and who would freely recieve his work (which takes complete humility, which is not something to boast of, but in our world. is something to be ashamed of)

when I chose to trust God. I am not doing a work. or doing something to save myself. I am admitting I can not save myself. and need his salvation. Thus God gets all the credit.

If our eternal salvation is based upon God's Son doing good works, then why do you not give him credit for securing eternal salvation for those he died for ,as stated in John 6:39, instead of only giving him credit for offering to save all mankind and not being able to?

forsha,


2 Pe 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
KJV


Jesus desires that all should come to repentance. but elects not to make it happen. WHY?

IMO God created mankind because He wanted a creature who was able to receive and return His love.

The price God paid for having a creature able to love Him was that He got a creature able NOT to love Him.

Love can NOT be programmed or demanded. It must be volitional!

God faced with a choice between preventing both evil and love or neither evil nor love decided to prevent neither evil nor love.

Adam's disobedience separated all mankind from God.

Jesus' death on the cross restored to all mankind the opportunity to receive and return, or to reject God's Love.

God's election is (because He chooses it to be) based on foreknowledge of each person's response to what Jesus has done for him or her.

This is the only way "you have not chosen me but I have chosen you" and "whosoever will may come" can be simultaneously true.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I was baptized by God. And I love because God first loved me.

everything else proceded out of that love.

I love because I was saved, not to get saved (which is what you preach) which is why you preach a gospel of works. not grace.

ps, I did get baptised in water, only not to get saved, but because God saved me. And I wanted to please the one who loved me more than anyone else could.

Ok, but have you repented of your sins and continue to confess any sins that you do now days ???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok, but have you repented of your sins and continue to confess any sins that you do now days ???

If I did not repent, I could not have faith in God. I repented 40 years ago, Why do you want me to mock God. God knows I know what sin is, how can I repent of a sin I already KNEW was sin? Not to mention, I do not know every sin I commit, and would not be to arrogant to say I do.
when are you going to repent. and give your eternal life to God? And stop excusing your sin by saying you can sin, but as long as you repent of them it is ok?

 

[michael56]

Ok, but have you repented of your sins and continue to confess any sins that you do now days ???

How can a child not say sorry to their Father when they offend him? It comes naturally in a true Father/son relationship. No offence, but it sounds a bit legalistic the way you term it. We are children of God, and children love their Father and he loves them. No child wants the pain of not being at peace with a parent, neither does a child of God with their Father
The idea if you commit a sin God is going to act like a thunderbolt thrower and threaten you with hell unless you repent fast enough is an incorrect way to view this in my opinion. He loves you greatly, for you have accepted His Son as your Saviour

 

[kennethcadwell]

If I did not repent, I could not have faith in God. I repented 40 years ago, Why do you want me to mock God. God knows I know what sin is, how can I repent of a sin I already KNEW was sin? Not to mention, I do not know every sin I commit, and would not be to arrogant to say I do.
when are you going to repent. and give your eternal life to God? And stop excusing your sin by saying you can sin, but as long as you repent of them it is ok?

I have repented E.G. and I continue to confess my sins when I commit one as the bible says to do !!!

So you repented 40 years ago, and now when you sin do you feel the Godly sorrow for committing that sin ???

As it is not mocking God to continue to say sorry to Him when you have sinned again, as the Holy Spirit will convict a believer for sin they commit because the bible says we grieve Him each time we sin. He leads you into Godly sorrow and that sorrow leads to repentance/confession, then leads to producing fruit to show that repentance was real. If a person continues to do the same sin over and over again the bible shows that is not a true repentance.........

 

[kennethcadwell]

How can a child not say sorry to their Father when they offend him? It comes naturally in a true Father/son relationship. No offence, but it sounds a bit legalistic the way you term it. We are children of God, and children love their Father and he loves them. No child wants the pain of not being at peace with a parent, neither does a child of God with their Father
The idea if you commit a sin God is going to act like a thunderbolt thrower and threaten you with hell unless you repent fast enough is an incorrect way to view this in my opinion. He loves you greatly, for you have accepted His Son as your Saviour

Because some teach a one time repentance, and then say they don't have to do nothing from there on out and all there sins are forgiven regardless of what they do. However the bible shows future sins are only forgiven after they have been confessed of, and not before from a one time repentance years ago.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have repented E.G. and I continue to confess my sins when I commit one as the bible says to do !!!

No Ken you have not, you admitted you are worthy of Gods salvation, thus you have not repented. Repentance is admitting your guilty and can not help yourself or save yourself. if you think you can be at a point you are worthy of salvation, you have not repented. for you admit that there are sins in your life which do not condemn you.

So you repented 40 years ago, and now when you sin do you feel the Godly sorrow for committing that sin ???

Does a child feel bad when he upsets his parent (if that child truly loves his parent?) What kind of question is that to ask of someone who truly loves God.

As it is not mocking God to continue to say sorry to Him when you have sinned again, as the Holy Spirit will convict a believer for sin they commit because the bible says we grieve Him each time we sin. He leads you into Godly sorrow and that sorrow leads to repentance/confession, then leads to producing fruit to show that repentance was real. If a person continues to do the same sin over and over again the bible shows that is not a true repentance.........

You keep saying the HS will convict a sinner, yet you admit that that person can lose salvation.

Your not making sense. If God convicts you, you will not resist the chastening of God. and say it is ok if I do what I want, you know better.

You can repent all you want, but when you place Gods love as conditional on you repenting of every sin, Your stating God is not a god of love, and kicks his children out when they go against him. This is not the God of the bible.

 

[michael56]

Because some teach a one time repentance, and then say they don't have to do nothing from there on out and all there sins are forgiven regardless of what they do. However the bible shows future sins are only forgiven after they have been confessed of, and not before from a one time repentance years ago.....

Sin unto condemnation has gone for the Christian. The Christian says sorry to their Father for they are grieved at offending him, for they have been born again of the Spirit. As a child's place in the family is not threatened when they break a rule, neither is a child of God's place threatened either in God's family.

But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb 9:26

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sin unto condemnation has gone for the Christian. The Christian says sorry to their Father for they are grieved at offending him, for they have been born again of the Spirit. As a child's place in the family is not threatened when they break a rule, neither is a child of God's place threatened either in God's family.

But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb 9:26

His problem is he is against a licentious gospel. which we both are. he just did a 180 and went to legalism, and did not meat God in the middle. where he needed to meet him.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No Ken you have not, you admitted you are worthy of Gods salvation, thus you have not repented. Repentance is admitting your guilty and can not help yourself or save yourself. if you think you can be at a point you are worthy of salvation, you have not repented. for you admit that there are sins in your life which do not condemn you.


Does a child feel bad when he upsets his parent (if that child truly loves his parent?) What kind of question is that to ask of someone who truly loves God.



You keep saying the HS will convict a sinner, yet you admit that that person can lose salvation.

Your not making sense. If God convicts you, you will not resist the chastening of God. and say it is ok if I do what I want, you know better.

You can repent all you want, but when you place Gods love as conditional on you repenting of every sin, Your stating God is not a god of love, and kicks his children out when they go against him. This is not the God of the bible.

Another bold face lie !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Sin unto condemnation has gone for the Christian. The Christian says sorry to their Father for they are grieved at offending him, for they have been born again of the Spirit. As a child's place in the family is not threatened when they break a rule, neither is a child of God's place threatened either in God's family.

But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb 9:26

Who walk in the Spirit..............

We can not leave the second half of that off, as Apostle Paul says no condemnation for those in Christ who walk in the Spirit. Two parts not just one, faith in Christ and walking properly in that faith.
If you say you have faith in Christ but continue to walk in the flesh you are still bond by the law, because you will still set your mind and focus on earthly things. The Lord said you can not do this and love Him both, as we have to take up are cross and follow Him. Following Him is an ever active process in our walk, and not just a time one day action.
Yes to do away with sin; So is there still sin in the world? YES Do we still sin from time to time? YES
Sin is done away by us walking in the Spirit, and repenting and confession our sins past, present, and in the future. Then He cleanses us of all unrighteousness so that when we stand before God He will present us blameless and without spot....