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Maxwel,
I think we might be using words differently.
I was born Jewish so I don't need adoption to be Jewish.
I understand physical Israel to mean those descended from Jacob (Israel) NOT the country West of Jordan, which I call national Israel.
My premise is taken from Ro chapter 11.
You might still disagree with me; but let's, at least, use words the same way.
I think we might be using words differently.
I was born Jewish so I don't need adoption to be Jewish.
I understand physical Israel to mean those descended from Jacob (Israel) NOT the country West of Jordan, which I call national Israel.
My premise is taken from Ro chapter 11.
You might still disagree with me; but let's, at least, use words the same way.
Don't you find it a bit foolish to suddenly start seeing holidays as "pagan" just because someone told you this... when all your life (at least mine) I was celebrating Jesus' birthday at Christmas, and Jesus' resurrection at Easter, and fellowship and blessings among races at thanksgiving, and the birth of a God centered experiment in freedom on the 4th of July?
Someone told you there are goblins under the bed, and now you are doing what the Bible told you not to do, "fearing" and concerning yourself with making certain days a requirement.
Go celebrate any festival or feast you want, and be happy that other people also celebrate their Savior.
Someone told you there are goblins under the bed, and now you are doing what the Bible told you not to do, "fearing" and concerning yourself with making certain days a requirement.
Go celebrate any festival or feast you want, and be happy that other people also celebrate their Savior.
B
And I do have an example of how grace and Torah observance to coexist. Biblical sabbath is sundown friday to sundown saturday. It says to not work on this day, for it is the Lord's day. My job, as well as other professions require work on this day (cops, firefighters, emergancy rooms, etc.) through grace I am able to work on this day because again my profession requires it, I can't take every Saturday off, I'm required to work every other Saturday to maintain my job. So through grace I can work on sabbath to maintain my job. I've even spoken to a Messianic Rabbi about it and he agrees with me. Yeshua and Paul when teaching against the Law you have to understand what the Pharisees were doing at the time, and I believe I've said this before. If you take time and study the history and you study of what was gonig in that time period. The Pharisees and Sadducees were adding to the Torah (or in other words adding laws to laws, or adding laws to commandments). When you add to the Torah (which is against Torah), that it legalism. That is what Yeshua and Paul were teaching against, and that's why there was such a problem with it at the time. Now I believe there is no grace in legalitic Torah, but in Torah itself the way it was written and how to follow it and walk in it, I do believe there is still grace in that. But that is a different topic than what we're on.
Back to the topic of the original post.
I'll rephrase the question.
Why is it ok to celebrate a MAN ORDAINED holiday, but the holy days and festivals in the Torah are frowned upon even though they were given by G-D?
Christmas and Easter were ordained by cultures long before Yeshua, his disciples, and Paul every walked the earth, and then they were ordained by Constatine (a man, not G-D) as observation to not offend pagans.
To add to that, does it not say in the scripture that the things we will do and walk in will offend the world? Are we not called be not of the world?
Back to the topic of the original post.
I'll rephrase the question.
Why is it ok to celebrate a MAN ORDAINED holiday, but the holy days and festivals in the Torah are frowned upon even though they were given by G-D?
Christmas and Easter were ordained by cultures long before Yeshua, his disciples, and Paul every walked the earth, and then they were ordained by Constatine (a man, not G-D) as observation to not offend pagans.
To add to that, does it not say in the scripture that the things we will do and walk in will offend the world? Are we not called be not of the world?
B
I wasn't told they were pagan, I found out they were pagan through research. Do the historical research yourself. When I was in middle/highschool I was deep into the study of Greek and Norse mythology, but never connected their holidays to Christmas & Easter until then end of my senior year of highschool when it was pointed out. Then I did the research into Constatine and what he did as an the emperor of Rome. So I didn't blindly follow what I was told, I did the research on it.
There are only 365 days in a year. I think it is more than safe to assume that some pagan was worshiping something on the very same days the Jews chose for their festivals... and long before they chose that day.
Some pagan is probably worshiping something on your own birthday..... does that mean you are also doing pagan worship because you have your birthday party?
We do come very close to pure insanity with some of this stuff.
Some pagan is probably worshiping something on your own birthday..... does that mean you are also doing pagan worship because you have your birthday party?
We do come very close to pure insanity with some of this stuff.
B
I haven't had a birthday party since middle school. To me it's just another year and I don't need to celebrate getting another older. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to celebrate it, I just don't care for celebrating it. But this is kinda of leading away from my question.
G-D ordained these holidays, G-D is never changing (to say He changes His mind is to say he is a hypocrit, and G-D for sure is no hyprocrit). So why is there so much judgement and hate toward something G-D made Holy, yet it's praised and amazing to celebrate something man created?
That's what I'm getting at.
G-D ordained these holidays, G-D is never changing (to say He changes His mind is to say he is a hypocrit, and G-D for sure is no hyprocrit). So why is there so much judgement and hate toward something G-D made Holy, yet it's praised and amazing to celebrate something man created?
That's what I'm getting at.
You can sugar coat it all you like, you are wanting christians to give up their freedom of expression to follow the torah as you interpret it to be followed. You believe the Church has been misled and is following paganism to destruction. You are what the apostles called a "judaizer". Restoration theology is not a recapturing of true christianity, it is trying to re establish the heresy of mixing christianity with judaism. The Church is not in heresy, you are.
Some how you justify your position even with the evidence against it: Acts 15 and Galatians
Some how you justify your position even with the evidence against it: Acts 15 and Galatians
B
So is it ok for me to tattoo my body? There's nothing against that in the new testament, yet people say it's wrong and a sin. Same with smoking and dipping. My spiritual body is ok, but my physical body i do not need to take care of. The physical side of things does not matter anymore because grace covers my spirit. So you're saying physically I can do what ever I want because I've accepted Christ?
Oh and thanks for telling me you're better than me.
I never said I was better than you, but you just stated you're better than me.
Oh and thanks for telling me you're better than me.
I never said I was better than you, but you just stated you're better than me.
B
Yeshua said in Matthew 5 "[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven."
So Yeshua our Lord, not Paul the saint stated, "till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."
Has heaven or earth passed away? I don't think so, we are still here living and breathing.
Also like I said either in this post or another post for Yeshua to fulfill the Torah He still has to have the 2nd coming.
If you understand the feast in Leviticus (the fall feast) and you read revelations, they link together. So Yeshua has not fullfilled these, therefor has not fully fulfilled the Torah yet.
To say this does not add up is just like saying 5+5= something other than 10. It's in the scripture and its text.
So Yeshua our Lord, not Paul the saint stated, "till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."
Has heaven or earth passed away? I don't think so, we are still here living and breathing.
Also like I said either in this post or another post for Yeshua to fulfill the Torah He still has to have the 2nd coming.
If you understand the feast in Leviticus (the fall feast) and you read revelations, they link together. So Yeshua has not fullfilled these, therefor has not fully fulfilled the Torah yet.
To say this does not add up is just like saying 5+5= something other than 10. It's in the scripture and its text.
B
Along with that if you go to prophecy side, Yeshua's 2nd coming is prophesied and He has not returned yet, therefor it is not fullfilled, therefor the Torah and the prophets are not abolished.
If Torah is written in our mind and in our heart should we not have wanting to follow it as well as follow the Messiah?
If Torah is written in our mind and in our heart should we not have wanting to follow it as well as follow the Messiah?