Version Difference Question

[valiant]

When was the tabernacle of David raised up?

When the people returned to the land and Zerubbabel, the son of David, ruled over them

When did the tabernacle of David possess the remnant of Edom and the heathen which are called by God's name?

During the inter-testamental period. The remnant of Edom moved into Southern Judah and were forced to become Jews.

When did the plowman overtake the reaper?

Every time that there was an exceptionally good harvest.

When did the mountains drop sweet wine?

When the vineyards blossomed

 

[KJV1611]

Originally Posted by KJV1611

When was the tabernacle of David raised up?

When the people returned to the land and Zerubbabel, the son of David, ruled over them

According to Acts 15:14-16 saved Gentiles are the tabernacle of David. Isn't it evident that the tabernacle of David is the body of Christ?

Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

 

[Willie-T]

He left out the day of vengeance because "the day of vengeance" was not fulfilled that day. That was not fulfilled until AD 70.

That certainly happened, but not through His followers engaging in any violence or vengeance. And I think this is important because a Warrior King is exactly what most sects of the Jews were expecting The Messiah to be. And He wasn't.

In fact leaving that part out of His reading of Isaiah is what nearly got Him killed that day. He really torqued off a whole synagogue of Jews that with that proclamation.

 

[just-me]

Amos 9:14King James Version (KJV)

14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Amos 9:14New International Version (NIV)

14and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.[a]

They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyardsand drink their wine;
They will make gardens and eat their fruit.

Why does the KJV say that God will agian bring about the captivity of Israel but the NIV says exactly the opposite? The NIV says that God will bring Israel back from exile.

The words "back" and "again" are indicating the same thing. In other words, God did it once and He will do it again in the last days. Old English makes the KJV hard to understand sometimes because it isn't our way of conversation today but that doesn't make it wrong or distorted, for the most part. The KJV makes me study more because some things seem to be confusing, but eventually I can get it.

 

[Willie-T]

Several of you keep referring to The Day of Vengeance as "the second part" of that passage of Isaiah. As though Jesus read up to a certain part, then finished because that was His part to fulfill. This is not so. It is smack dab in the middle of that reading, and He had to very deliberately skip right over those words, leaving that part out, altogether, while continuing with the rest.

And as the resulting near-riot shows, this was VERY important to the Jews. To them, this had to show that Jesus couldn't possibly be the one they were hoping was coming to crush their enemies and get even with Rome for their oppression.

 

[Willie-T]

The words "back" and "again" are indicating the same thing. In other words, God did it once and He will do it again in the last days. Old English makes the KJV hard to understand sometimes because it isn't our way of conversation today but that doesn't make it wrong or distorted, for the most part. The KJV makes me study more because some things seem to be confusing, but eventually I can get it.

Yeah, that sounds like the way God would make understanding... really hard and confusing..... NOT.

 

[KJV1611]

The words "back" and "again" are indicating the same thing. In other words, God did it once and He will do it again in the last days. Old English makes the KJV hard to understand sometimes because it isn't our way of conversation today but that doesn't make it wrong or distorted, for the most part. The KJV makes me study more because some things seem to be confusing, but eventually I can get it.

I agree, the "back" and "again" mean the same thing. The question is, whether God is bringing them back into captivity or back back from exile. That's where the bible versions differ.

 

[just-me]

I agree, the "back" and "again" mean the same thing. The question is, whether God is bringing them back into captivity or back back from exile. That's where the bible versions differ.

The remaining scriptures that accompany this clearly indicates an environment of freedom and joy that is certainly not leading them back into captivity.

They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
They will make gardens and eat their fruit.

and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

God bless.

 

[just-me]

Yeah, that sounds like the way God would make understanding... really hard and confusing..... NOT.

I never indicated that. It is your assumption that made you interpret it that way.

Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression. Psalm 19:13

 

[KJV1611]

The remaining scriptures that accompany this clearly indicates an environment of freedom and joy.
They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
They will make gardens and eat their fruit.
God bless.

The KJV says build the waste cities, not rebuild. Also vineyards, wine and fruit do not necessarily mean good ones. Is Amos talking about the good vineyard or the vineyard of Sodom? The only way to know is by the verse in question, is God sending them into captivity or is God delivering them from exile.

Deu 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
Deu 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

 

[Willie-T]

I never indicated that.

Well, it sure came out that way. Why not leave the Bible in Hebrew and Greek? That would really force all of us to do some genuine study to even know what was said, let alone, what was meant. I'm sorry, but I believe God intended His word to be very simple to grasp, and we have brought so much confusion into it with our prideful "Theology" that it is a wonder anyone can understand it. Thank God for The Holy Spirit bailing the rest of us poor ignorant people out.

 

[just-me]

The KJV says build the waste cities, not rebuild. Also vineyards, wine and fruit do not necessarily mean good ones. Is Amos talking about the good vineyard or the vineyard of Sodom? The only way to know is by the verse in question, is God sending them into captivity or is God delivering them from exile.

Deu 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
Deu 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

The wine in Sodom was unpalatable. The said scripture in Amos clearly indicates that "their" wine and vineyards will be unlike that of Sodom. "Gall" and "poison" are not mentioned.

 

[KJV1611]

The wine in Sodom was unpalatable. The said scripture in Amos clearly indicates that "their" wine and vineyards will be unlike that of Sodom. "Gall" and "poison" are not mentioned.

I'm not following you on this one, where does Amos clearly indicate their wine and vineyard is not like that of Sodom?

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

 

[just-me]

I'm not following you on this one, where does Amos clearly indicate their wine and vineyard is not like that of Sodom?

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

God will plant them in righteousness, not with the unrighteousness as in Sodom. The term "no more be pulled up" is certainly not temporary. Sodom is the consequence of carnality leading to an end unlike God's righteous judgment of blessings that are everlasting. His way is right, fleshly thinking and carnality always reaps bad consequence.

 

[Agricola]

have we managed to establish that the NIV is evil for allegedly perverting the so called perfect Bible yet and if not why not? After all this is the true purpose of the thread is it not?

 

[just-me]

God is not saying He will cause Israel to be captive as they were in Egypt, Assyria and Babylon. He is saying that as their captivity ceased by the Exodus from Egypt, and the freedom to rebuild after the captivity in Babylon, so will it be in the last days with all Israel, not just Judah. The northern tribes called Ephraim have never been released from captivity since the Assyrian capture and the dispersion that followed.

Amos 9:1 "I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel."

Direct from the Hebrew language, this indicates the present circumstance of captivity as it reads.......

And my daughter, the captivity of my people Israel,
ושבתי,את-שבות עמי ישראל

 

[KJV1611]

God will plant them in righteousness, not with the unrighteousness as in Sodom. The term "no more be pulled up" is certainly not temporary. Sodom is the consequence of carnality leading to an end unlike God's righteous judgment of blessings that are everlasting. His way is right, fleshly thinking and carnality always reaps bad consequence.

No offence just-me but the text doesn't say "God will plant them in righteousness". It just says God will permanently plant them. The only reason I can think of that would make you add "righteousness" is because you reject the meaning of the word "captivity" which ironically, you base the meaning of "captivity" on the fact that God permanently planted them. That is circular reason.

Circular Reasoning:
Captivity means bring back from exile because God permanently planted Israel.
God permanently planted Israel because captivity really means bring back from exile.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Assyrian and Babylonian captivities.

let not forget the roman. and the captivity they are still in

 

[KJV1611]

have we managed to establish that the NIV is evil for allegedly perverting the so called perfect Bible yet and if not why not? After all this is the true purpose of the thread is it not?

Anybody with one ounce of discernment knows the NIV is a perversion. The real purpose of the thread was to find out why one translation says exactly the opposite of another translation.... only most people that have responded can't even see that there is a difference between the two.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the word captivity in the hebrew.

(17 ×), שְׁבִית (2 ×): sf. שְׁביּתֵךְ, שְׁבוּתָם: carrying off to captivity, imprisonment; w. vb. hēšîb Je 32:44 or šāb (ϝ √ II šwb) Dt 30:3 lift the sentence of imprisonment, turn one’s fortune (to the good); but oth. believe the basic mng. of phrase is ‘bring about a restoration’.

Holladay, W. L., & Köhler, L. (2000). A concise Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament (p. 358). Leiden: Brill.

ie, he will bring about a restoration, Turns their fortune from bad (captive) to Good (peace in their land, to rebuild the cities, drink its wine) Or Lift the sentance of imprisonment (they were sentence to the prison of captivity due to their sin)

All one has to do is look at the rest of the verse to get the actual interpretation.

They will rebuild their cities (destroyed in the captivity)
They will plant vinyard and drink the wine
They will plant gardens and eat the food.

Captives do not do this, this is the opposite of captivity. this is what one does when they are freed from their sentence of imprisonment

So iether it is an old english problem as many have said. or is it a misinterpretation, or it is worded very poorly.