Fornication in Old Testament.

[ivanc0]

exodus 20
[SUP]14[/SUP] Thou shalt not commit adultery.

But then we see multiple cases where people take multiple wifes, concubines, visit prostitutes:

Moses have more than one wife.
the people or Israel were to fornicate with women of Madian, One brought one to the camp and took her to his tent.
Samson when to visit a prostitute. He did not like Israelite woman at all. just the philistines. but rule Israel for 20 years. so he rule the people but dislike his women, and goes for the pagans.
David committed adultery and homicide.
One son of David rapes his Sister. and after the rape, he hates her, not only rapes her but throw her out like rubbish.
Salomon the wisest men were silly enough to have 1000 wife’s and concubines.
The story of the Levite who prefers to sacrifice his concubine to sacrifice himself, and the coward does not even open de door to protect her after he send her to be raped to save his own life. the poor woman dies, for the rape or cold of night?
How go get a concubine? was a formal process, is all murky,

It seems to me that free sex for men and restriction for women was the rule, the girls have to be keep virgin, or face stoning. but the men is visiting concubines without rest.

after all this when is that the Idea of monogamy comes to life between the old and New testament?

 

[MaggieMye]

HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE BIBLE?? Moses had ONE wife, an Ethiopian woman by the name of Zipporah. Read the book of Exodus. God's people were NEVER allowed to 'fornicate'. Look the word up in the dictionary.
Then read the New Testament.
Maggie

 

[Tintin]

The Bible records human history, from a perfect creation to a fallen creation and to a restored creation in the New Heavens and New Earth. God's Word never encourages sins, it only records what happened, is happening and will happen in the future.

 

[JesusIsAll]

exodus 20
[SUP]14[/SUP] Thou shalt not commit adultery.

But then we see multiple cases where people take multiple wifes, concubines, visit prostitutes:

Moses have more than one wife.
the people or Israel were to fornicate with women of Madian, One brought one to the camp and took her to his tent.
Samson when to visit a prostitute. He did not like Israelite woman at all. just the philistines. but rule Israel for 20 years. so he rule the people but dislike his women, and goes for the pagans.
David committed adultery and homicide.
One son of David rapes his Sister. and after the rape, he hates her, not only rapes her but throw her out like rubbish.
Salomon the wisest men were silly enough to have 1000 wife’s and concubines.
The story of the Levite who prefers to sacrifice his concubine to sacrifice himself, and the coward does not even open de door to protect her after he send her to be raped to save his own life. the poor woman dies, for the rape or cold of night?
How go get a concubine? was a formal process, is all murky,

It seems to me that free sex for men and restriction for women was the rule, the girls have to be keep virgin, or face stoning. but the men is visiting concubines without rest.

after all this when is that the Idea of monogamy comes to life between the old and New testament?

Solomon went from wise to perverted, over strange women. What man does isn't always going to reflect God's perfect will, a gross understatement. Cain's wife was most likely his sister, but this was before incest became outlawed, interesting how genetics finds recessive traits coming to the surface, down generations of this behavior. But you'd say now that's perversion, to take a wife of a close relative.

Everything in the Bible has a time and a context to be examined, and trying to stuff then into now would be like saying Israel should have to come to the cross in the wilderness, when reality was a good day was one when they weren't building idols or whining against Moses to return to slavery. The Old Testament is largely man being perverted, in the sight of God.

 

[ivanc0]

HAVE YOU EVEN READ THE BIBLE?? Moses had ONE wife, an Ethiopian woman by the name of Zipporah. Read the book of Exodus. God's people were NEVER allowed to 'fornicate'. Look the word up in the dictionary.
Then read the New Testament.
Maggie

Nope! Zipporah was Madianite, the other was Ethiopian.

This is my question they were allowed or not, Exodous 20 talks about adultery, and do not covet the woman of you fellow. so was ok to cover if the woman was single? or widow.

The great Gods Men like Samsom, David, Salomon, and other did just have multiple relationships as it was perfectly normal.

When is the change of prespective?

 

[ivanc0]

Solomon went from wise to perverted, over strange women. What man does isn't always going to reflect God's perfect will, a gross understatement. Cain's wife was most likely his sister, but this was before incest became outlawed, interesting how genetics finds recessive traits coming to the surface, down generations of this behavior. But you'd say now that's perversion, to take a wife of a close relative.

Everything in the Bible has a time and a context to be examined, and trying to stuff then into now would be like saying Israel should have to come to the cross in the wilderness, when reality was a good day was one when they weren't building idols or whining against Moses to return to slavery. The Old Testament is largely man being perverted, in the sight of God.

Thanks for your reply, but should be the other way around, you get wise after been unwise, you do not get unwise after being the hiper wise men in earth, unless your wise-ness is fake.

God gave us the instinct to reproduce, this is why your hormones make you covet, but we have different rules now, so the men were different on those days,.... so we talking about human moral evolution ... .when we can not compare today with the old days?

 

[DesiredHaven]

Here with David,

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

2Sam 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD,
to do evil in his sight?

thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword,
and hast taken his wife to be thy wife,
and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

2Sam 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed
thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme

Which is also interesting that the same wording in the context of wives (in respects to their own husbands) and the issue of obedience unto ones own and blaspheme is here as well

To wives...

Titus 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands,
that the word of God be not blasphemed

Given Bathsheba should have been obedient to her own husband (Uriah) and not to David (who sent for her) even as likewise David should not have coveted Uriah's wife (even as this thing displeased the LORD 2 Sam 11:27)

Overall, David was a man after Gods own heart, with the exception of where it is noted he despised God (as equally as he despised the commandment in his doings with Uriah's wife

2Sam 12:10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house;
because thou hast despised me,
and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

But of David it says this...

1Kings 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD,
and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life,
save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

The two matters are combined into one matter here which is noted here concerning what David did.

David took Abigail earlier, but God killed her husband first (not David).

And Nabal was a fool, so God did her a favor actually.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Thanks for your reply, but should be the other way around, you get wise after been unwise, you do not get unwise after being the hiper wise men in earth, unless your wise-ness is fake.

God gave us the instinct to reproduce, this is why your hormones make you covet, but we have different rules now, so the men were different on those days,.... so we talking about human moral evolution ... .when we can not compare today with the old days?

No, Solomon was the wisest man on earth, but went awry in his old age for strange women, went from wise to unwise. So, the Bible supports falling from wisdom, if we aren't careful. As to polygamy, nobody knows the moral whys and wherefores, the Bible silent on much, but as early as Genesis 2:24 is a picture of monogamy. Monogamy is also pictured in the New Testament of being one flesh with a spouse and also a church elder or whatever being of good reputation and of one wife. Pauline issues of remarriage involved marrying one person, not many. So, I don't see that polygamy practiced was ever a moral norm, though I've never done a dedicated study of polygamy, and, again, what man does is hardly a statement on the will of God, an awful of man's sin recorded in the Bible.

 

[JesusIsAll]

1 Kings 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

 

[p_rehbein]

As long as there have been humans beyond Adam and Eve, I suspect there has been fornication. Even as recorded in Scripture, yet these have ALSO been punished for their sinful acts.

 

[Galahad]

exodus 20
[SUP]14[/SUP] Thou shalt not commit adultery.

But then we see multiple cases where people take multiple wifes, concubines, visit prostitutes:

Moses have more than one wife.
the people or Israel were to fornicate with women of Madian, One brought one to the camp and took her to his tent.
Samson when to visit a prostitute. He did not like Israelite woman at all. just the philistines. but rule Israel for 20 years. so he rule the people but dislike his women, and goes for the pagans.
David committed adultery and homicide.
One son of David rapes his Sister. and after the rape, he hates her, not only rapes her but throw her out like rubbish.
Salomon the wisest men were silly enough to have 1000 wife’s and concubines.
The story of the Levite who prefers to sacrifice his concubine to sacrifice himself, and the coward does not even open de door to protect her after he send her to be raped to save his own life. the poor woman dies, for the rape or cold of night?
How go get a concubine? was a formal process, is all murky,

It seems to me that free sex for men and restriction for women was the rule, the girls have to be keep virgin, or face stoning. but the men is visiting concubines without rest.

after all this when is that the Idea of monogamy comes to life between the old and New testament?

You're at it again.
Ivan, THE TERRIBLE fact is your desperation for finding fault with the Bible plagues you night and day. Sleep leaves you, and your wicked thoughts disturb your mind. It's all in your history. Ivan, THE TERRIBLE troubles you face arise out of a corrupted heart.

I hope you will read and study the Bible. You will find it to be a most credible book. And by it you can know the Lord God Almighty.

 

[DesiredHaven]

That is something I have not looked into yet is the concubines, I find this interesting though.

 

[ivanc0]

You're at it again.
Ivan, THE TERRIBLE fact is your desperation for finding fault with the Bible plagues you night and day. Sleep leaves you, and your wicked thoughts disturb your mind. It's all in your history. Ivan, THE TERRIBLE troubles you face arise out of a corrupted heart.

I hope you will read and study the Bible. You will find it to be a most credible book. And by it you can know the Lord God Almighty.

The subject is in the bible, and is a reality, They had different standards. You will not make any favor but trying to hide controversial parts of the Bible, anyone who reads the bible will find this pasages and ask the question.... only people too into dogma will close their eyes and ignore this issues.

 

[ivanc0]

1 Kings 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

Agree with you, so Solomon was so wise that turned stupid, so as conclusion, is very risky to be Wise!!!

and who needss 1000 wifes when old, when you old is when the hardware start to fail and no even one wife could get happy. less 1000s

 

[ivanc0]

1 Kings 11:4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.

This verse is quoted well, but the author is completely wrong, David was an adulterous and a killer, He planned the dead of the husband of his lover. the magnitude of the sins of Salomon does not compare with the ones of David. having said that Solomon was a horrible men too.

David did Kill an Innocent Man. David was a horrible wicked man. capable of kill to get a woman.

Coveted a Married woman
committed adultery
killed and innocent man

whoever wrote 1kings 11:4 was completely misinformed or completely biased, and is not telling the truth.

 

[Galahad]

The subject is in the bible, and is a reality, They had different standards. You will not make any favor but trying to hide controversial parts of the Bible, anyone who reads the bible will find this pasages and ask the question.... only people too into dogma will close their eyes and ignore this issues.

Where's the controversy? Solomon was wrong. The Bible says so. I don't see a controversy.

 

[valiant]

This verse is quoted well, but the author is completely wrong, David was an adulterous and a killer, He planned the dead of the husband of his lover. the magnitude of the sins of Salomon does not compare with the ones of David. having said that Solomon was a horrible men too.

David did Kill an Innocent Man. David was a horrible wicked man. capable of kill to get a woman.

Coveted a Married woman
committed adultery
killed and innocent man

whoever wrote 1kings 11:4 was completely misinformed or completely biased, and is not telling the truth.

The writer is not saying that David was perfect in every way. It is talking about his attitude towards God. He was 'perfect' in that he never went after idols. In contrast Solomon worshiped many idols

 

[DesiredHaven]

2Sam 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD,
to do evil in his sight?

thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword,
and hast taken his wife to be thy wife,
and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.


2Sam 12:10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house;
because thou hast despised me,
and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

But of David it says this...

1Kings 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD,
and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life,
save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

The two matters are combined into one matter here which is noted here concerning what David did.

I was looking at the two highlighted in the above, and how they are equal. Even the despising of the LORD himself in the despising the commandment itself (when we do evil) as it is shown there. In the NT it speaks of love for God (not our despising him) and our love made perfect when we keep the commandments. So I was looking up he that "despiseth" in the NT and it too connected back there and thought to springboard of this previous post (where another pattern can be seen) but took most of the other pattern out to run it again after after these three verses.


1 Thes 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

Skipping up further to verse 6 (as you can read in between, where it speaks of lust, fornication, followed up by not defrauding brothers in any matter) and even in respects to the same...

1 Thes 4:6a That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in ((any matter)) even as in 1 Kg 15:5 which David did in what is coined ((the matter of)) Uriah ( in respects to Uriahs wife and the sword of Ammon) as it is speaking

And Paul continues saying...

1 Thes 4:6 b because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.

1 Thes 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

And then he says...

1 Thes 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God,
who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.

Paul starts out as by what commandments they had given by the Lord Jesus (as received of the Father) and then speaks of him that despiseth the same.

The same is mirrored here with David despising the commandment...

2Sam 12:9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD,
to do evil in his sight?

Not leaving out what Paul said of God being an avenger of such who defraud ones brother in any matter, as even that which occurred between David and Uriah's wife is also called " a matter" (1 Kings 15:5) in respects to the commandment

The next verse shows its equal ....

2Sam 12:10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.

Paul says there in the context of what commandments they gave by the Lord Jesus, and if any would despise he adds...

1 Thes 4:8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God,

Even as Jesus said,

Luke 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me;and he that despiseth you despiseth me;
and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Just a couple patterns you can catch, not only in the pattern of wives and their obedience to their own husbands, and blaspheme (as can be shown in both places accordingly) but also in defrauding, in some similar matter and he that despiseth the commandment and despising God (not man) in relation to the same.

 

[Galahad]

This verse is quoted well, but the author is completely wrong, David was an adulterous and a killer, He planned the dead of the husband of his lover. the magnitude of the sins of Salomon does not compare with the ones of David. having said that Solomon was a horrible men too.

David did Kill an Innocent Man. David was a horrible wicked man. capable of kill to get a woman.

Coveted a Married woman
committed adultery
killed and innocent man

whoever wrote 1kings 11:4 was completely misinformed or completely biased, and is not telling the truth.

Ivan, THE TERRIBLE statement of yours against the writer is self-revealing.
How about Psalm 51?

 

[ember]

after all this when is that the Idea of monogamy comes to life between the old and New testament?

God indicated from the beginning what the ideal was.

He created one man and one woman for that man


We also have slavery and other issues in the Bible that appear as though there are no directives regarding behavior from a biblical standpoint.

However, God is to be found wherever and in whatever situation we are...that would include all things introduced by mankind into the world made by God...things which He did not create

Some people base mulitple wives for one man on scripture...but scripture does not condone that; but at the same time there is no real directive for a man to divorce or put away all but one wife...it becomes both a moral and a cultural dilema...ie missionairies in countries where a man becomes a Christian and has more than one wife

The answer seems to be that things should stay as they are as divorcing women who have no means of taking care of themself would be cruel.

I've seen this argued over and over...my belief is that the ideal is one man and one woman as that was the original creation