Jesus killed the law causing enmity to cease

[Biblelogic01]

2 Cor 1 and 4? (just off the top of my head.....)
man, them apostles musta been bad people.

God Word comes to us in (basically) two forms.
God's Law (the Word of demand) and
God's Gospel (the Word of deliverance).

the Law is not some helpful suggestions for practical living.
it's instruction in how to be perfect.
it is relentless in its pursuit of sinners....all of us.
there is no mercy or grace in it...it is God's demand for absolute, unmitigated perfection.

oh, you will see mercy and grace in there, because God's Gospel is Eternal. (Rev 14:6)

for those who believe they 'keep Torah'.... you don't.

and i think there's still confusion among us as to the meaning of Rom 3:31.

I follow Torah, but I do not as a means of salvation. I do it as a means of obedience to God and His word. I have stated this in previous posts/threads. There is nothing wrong with Torah observance, but if one who is Torah observant tries to put oneself above others because the others are not, or vise versa, that is wrong on both sides. Yeshua did not teach against Torah, He taught Torah. What He did teach against was the hypocricy of the religous leaders at the time because they were placing laws on laws, yet they didn't observe these laws on the laws. When Torah is observed properly through Yeshua, it is an amazing, beautiful, and eye-openning experience. I have learned so much more being Torah observant, than when I was not.

And if you want a better understanding on PART of why I follow Torah, read my long post that I posted earlier in the thread.

 

[fredjames]

When Torah is observed properly through Yeshua, it is an amazing, beautiful, and eye-openning experience. I have learned so much more being Torah observant, than when I was not.

ADONAI YESHUA already 'fulfill' the 'Torah', during HIS life here on earth in Jerusalem and the surroundings, therefore 'preaching' the Gospel of 'redemption' failure to them and teaching the 'beginning' of New Covenant, to the born again from above redeemed people who followed HIM and later when HE was nailed to the Cross, HE proclaimed them as 'accomplished' for the Jews and non-Jews already, because they all belong to Adam and Eve in initial creation in Genesis.

Are you claiming your 'self' to be better in 'fulfilling' the Torah, than the 'Messiach' of GOD sent to fulfill them about 2015 years ago, who have already gave us by the Will of GOD, the New Testament?

Sorry to say this according to the New Testament 'testimonial' faith, that you have been 'beguiled' by satan,as how he did to the muslim's prophet in 'false' interpretation, the 'adversary of GOD' and conformed, further 'testifying' in 'deception'.

Sadly 'testimony' like yours, distinguishes one as an 'outsider' to the lambs and sheep of ADONAI YESHUA, 'the author and finisher of our faith' based on the 'foundation' of the New Covenant.

May the EL-SHADDAI ELOHIM the ABBA of our ADONAI YESHUA forgive you and bless you to be born from above first, in order to understand the New Covenant of the HOLY SPIRIT and by the HOLY SPIRIT.

 

[just-me]

But Sarah saw Ishmael--the son of Abraham and her Egyptian servant Hagar--making fun of her son, Isaac. (Genesis 21:9 NLT).

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. (Galatians 4:28-29).

This is an allegory, not an analogy. First things first. First Ishmael, then Isaac. First Esau, then Jacob. First Manasseh, then Ephraim. First the law and then Christ. The second was always noted as completion/fulfillment pointing to the promise. First the fleshly shadows of a promise, then the promise fulfilled. That's why Sari's name was changed to Sarah.

Galatians 4:23-26
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the free woman was by promise.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 

[Biblelogic01]

ADONAI YESHUA already 'fulfill' the 'Torah', during HIS life here on earth in Jerusalem and the surroundings, therefore 'preaching' the Gospel of 'redemption' failure to them and teaching the 'beginning' of New Covenant, to the born again from above redeemed people who followed HIM and later when HE was nailed to the Cross, HE proclaimed them as 'accomplished' for the Jews and non-Jews already, because they all belong to Adam and Eve in initial creation in Genesis.

Are you claiming your 'self' to be better in 'fulfilling' the Torah, than the 'Messiach' of GOD sent to fulfill them about 2015 years ago, who have already gave us by the Will of GOD, the New Testament?

Sorry to say this according to the New Testament 'testimonial' faith, that you have been 'beguiled' by satan,as how he did to the muslim's prophet in 'false' interpretation, the 'adversary of GOD' and conformed, further 'testifying' in 'deception'.

Sadly 'testimony' like yours, distinguishes one as an 'outsider' to the lambs and sheep of ADONAI YESHUA, 'the author and finisher of our faith' based on the 'foundation' of the New Covenant.

May the EL-SHADDAI ELOHIM the ABBA of our ADONAI YESHUA forgive you and bless you to be born from above first, in order to understand the New Covenant of the HOLY SPIRIT and by the HOLY SPIRIT.

Um. . . I didn't type once that I am greater than Yeshua. Please tell me where? I follow the Messiah's teachings.

Read that whole passage from Matthew please.

Um I believe He said until all is fullfilled.
Which would include until the prophets are fullfilled also.
Has Yeshua returned? No, He has not. Therefor even if He has fullfilled the Torah, He has not fullfilled the prophets yet.
That will happen in His 2nd comming.

And yes I know about the New Covenant, He wrote it in our minds and our hearts, and then He gave us the Spirit. This new covenant is new because it is written with in us. That is main difference between the old covenant and the new. Yeshua was the sacrificial lamb to cover our sins (what sins? OUR LAWLESSNESS, OUR TRANSGRESSION OF GOING AWAY FROM GOD'S WAYS). Yeshua died so He could cover the death and sacrifice that is require for adultry. Yeshua taught that adultry is not just with a man and a woman, but can also be in the heart. To turn away from God's ways is to be an adulterer to God. And according to Torah what happens when there is adultry? There must be a sin offering, which Yeshua was that sin offering for He had no blemish, He covered it so we could walk in His ways. OH! and on top of that God decided lets make it easier, He wrote it in our mind and on our hearts, that way it would be within us. OH! and along with that He gave us the Spirit as a guide. So many people think of it as God changed. . . NO NO NO. GOD CHANGED US! He changed us, He didn't change His ways to make it easier for us, He changed us by giving us the those things.

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He never changes.
I don't know which God you serve, but the God I serve has no changed at all.

I do pray for blessing towards you. I have not slandered you in anyway, yet you slander me and twist what I have said.

I will end my post towards you with words from the Messiah

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Yeshua; Matthew 5:19

Have blessed day sir.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One, baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e. sin). See 1 Peter 3. Oh, and yes. I have been baptized (Just in case you are wondering).

No, I was not wondering, You did not even read what I said, I said baptism of the spirit not baptism in water,

Two, the topic we are discussing is not about "me." We are discussing the Bible here. If you would like to discuss the Bible, then you are more than welcome to post Scripture and we can talk back and forth in a kind and loving way.

Three, are you unaware of the verses that talk about how we are to be "perfect" and or how we can cease from sin? Just do a Blue Letter Bible search on these keywords and you will discover the verses for yourself.

so are you perfect? Have you ceased from sin?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I wouldn't say i'm stubborn I am more than willing to learn and admit i am wrong but unless I am proven wrong i cannot simply believe whatever someone else tells me. You say we can be perfect and sinless you say scripture even says that, but the scriptures don't always say what we think they say. a lot of times it's our interpretations that make it say that. True I don't use a lot of scripture in my posts for a couple of reasons 1 I never feel lead to 2 I would rather not hardly use it than to use it out of context or use it as a weapon against others. Scripture is very holy and sacred so if i am disliked because i don't use it like a lot of ppl so be it but i will not use something so treasured so holy and so sacred like that.

Anyone can take a few passages of scripture and make it say anything they want. Posting alot of scripture does not always help your cause. so I would not worry about it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But Sarah saw Ishmael--the son of Abraham and her Egyptian servant Hagar--making fun of her son, Isaac. (Genesis 21:9 NLT).

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. (Galatians 4:28-29).

Yep. As the child of sin persecuted the child of promise, so to were the religious jews persecuting paul.

We who preach salvation by faith are always persecuted by those who teach law and works.

 

[fredjames]

Um. . . I didn't type once that I am greater than Yeshua. Please tell me where? I follow the Messiah's teachings.

Read that whole passage from Matthew please.

Um I believe He said until all is fullfilled.
Which would include until the prophets are fullfilled also.
Has Yeshua returned? No, He has not. Therefor even if He has fullfilled the Torah, He has not fullfilled the prophets yet.
That will happen in His 2nd comming.

And yes I know about the New Covenant, He wrote it in our minds and our hearts, and then He gave us the Spirit. This new covenant is new because it is written with in us. That is main difference between the old covenant and the new. Yeshua was the sacrificial lamb to cover our sins (what sins? OUR LAWLESSNESS, OUR TRANSGRESSION OF GOING AWAY FROM GOD'S WAYS). Yeshua died so He could cover the death and sacrifice that is require for adultry. Yeshua taught that adultry is not just with a man and a woman, but can also be in the heart. To turn away from God's ways is to be an adulterer to God. And according to Torah what happens when there is adultry? There must be a sin offering, which Yeshua was that sin offering for He had no blemish, He covered it so we could walk in His ways. OH! and on top of that God decided lets make it easier, He wrote it in our mind and on our hearts, that way it would be within us. OH! and along with that He gave us the Spirit as a guide. So many people think of it as God changed. . . NO NO NO. GOD CHANGED US! He changed us, He didn't change His ways to make it easier for us, He changed us by giving us the those things.

God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. He never changes.
I don't know which God you serve, but the God I serve has no changed at all.

I do pray for blessing towards you. I have not slandered you in anyway, yet you slander me and twist what I have said.

I will end my post towards you with words from the Messiah

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Yeshua; Matthew 5:19

Have blessed day sir.

Do you want to learn from the HOLY SPIRIT, HIS 'inspired' HOLY BIBLE, or do you want to 'continue' to teach HIM instead, how better they all should be, in your on going 'testimony' and 'self' justification?

 

[Biblelogic01]

Do you want to learn from the HOLY SPIRIT, HIS 'inspired' HOLY BIBLE, or do you want to 'continue' to teach HIM instead, how better they all should be, in your on going 'testimony' and 'self' justification?

You are not making any sense brother. The Holy Spirit has guided me in my walk, and that lead to walking in Torah, and that lead to more clarification on scripture. So through the Holy Spirit and through Yeshua I learned this. Not the opposite, you're assuming that I did this in reverse. No no no, I'm not going to retype my testimony again. I came yo Yeshua and was saved, my salvation is through Yeshua alone. Through my walk, with Yeshua and the Spirit as my guide, that lead me to being Torah obsrvant. Through this I am stating that I have seen more in scripture than I did before hand. So yes Torah has openned my eyes to scripture, but it was through Yeshua and the Spirit that my eyes were openned to Torah. You cannot teach the new without the old. To think you can do so is ignorance.

I'm not claiming that I'm perfect. No one is perfect. I never stated I was self-justifying anything either. Again you are assuming things. I only stated I'm Torah observant because my walk with Yeshua lead to Torah observance in obedience with the word (I know I'm sounding redundant, but it seems like I have to be to get my point across).

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Yes, if they are not born again and they are not seeking to purify themselves (i.e. they confess their sin and strive to forsake it), then they have the blessed hope. If they think they can sin and still be saved, then they are in for a rude awakening.

In the spirit we were made pure (salvation) but we still have to walk out in these bodies(sanctification)and that is the part of us that sins but under grace he is faithful if we confess our sins to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
So in the spirit the bible says we were made perfect but in these bodies we are renewing our minds and being obedient and we will sin but if we confess our sins GOD will forgive us.
GOD looks at the heart.

 

[just-me]

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Biblelogic again

 

[fredjames]

Um I believe He said until all is fullfilled.
Which would include until the prophets are fullfilled also.
Has Yeshua returned? No, He has not. Therefor even if He has fullfilled the Torah, He has not fullfilled the prophets yet.
That will happen in His 2nd comming.
.

Witnessing lambs and sheep of GOD, given to CHRIST, please 'beware' of 'counterfeits' and 'imposers' like these.

According to the Gospel of Matthew, JESUS mentioned 'the Law and the Prophets' that HE must 'fulfill', and that has been 'accomplished' on the Cross.

Sorry to say this GOD's beloved, here is a 'clown' in disguise, saying regarding the saying of the Prophets, that it has not been fulfilled yet but only the Law, by JESUS?

What were the Prophets of the Old Testament, after Moses's 'prophecy', written in the book of Deuteronomy, who also saying about the MESSIAH to come. 'And all will have to listen to HIM'?

Didn't JESUS in the Gospel and in 'account' according to the written Scripture of the 'Old', even the disciples themselves witnessed and have 'testified' in the Gospel, that JESUS have 'fulfilled' the saying of the Prophets of the Old Testament?

Didn't HE for example, as it is written in the saying of the Prophets, 'ride to Jerusalem in a colt'?

And, 'Was HE not born of a virgin?'

Please 'pray' for these 'ignorant ones' in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST and please do not 'debate' with such.

Thank you and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST keep you from being tempted and protect you from evil.

 

[Biblelogic01]

Witnessing lambs and sheep of GOD, given to CHRIST, please 'beware' of 'counterfeits' and 'imposers' like these.

According to the Gospel of Matthew, JESUS mentioned 'the Law and the Prophets' that HE must 'fulfill', and that has been 'accomplished' on the Cross.

Sorry to say this GOD's beloved, here is a 'clown' in disguise, saying regarding the saying of the Prophets, that it has not been fulfilled yet but only the Law, by JESUS?

What were the Prophets of the Old Testament, after Moses's 'prophecy', written in the book of Deuteronomy, who also saying about the MESSIAH to come. 'And all will have to listen to HIM'?

Didn't JESUS in the Gospel and in 'account' according to the written Scripture of the 'Old', even the disciples themselves witnessed and have 'testified' in the Gospel, that JESUS have 'fulfilled' the saying of the Prophets of the Old Testament?

Didn't HE for example, as it is written in the saying of the Prophets, 'ride to Jerusalem in a colt'?

And, 'Was HE not born of a virgin?'

Please 'pray' for these 'ignorant ones' in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST and please do not 'debate' with such.

Thank you and may GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST keep you from being tempted and protect you from evil.

I'm a clown? I'm not the one condemning others.
I'm stating what I know based off of scripture.
You're just paraphrasing scripture.

Have you ever even studied the prohpets and what was prophecied?
You don't sound like you have.
I would suggest studying Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Daniel. Maybe even more than just that.
My guess is you think because of the cross. We must destroy the OT and everything in it.
I apologize for your wake up call, but Yeshua and all the apostles taught based off of Torah and the prophets.

Everything I have quoted lines up with scripture. Please point me where I am wrong.

 

[Biblelogic01]

To add to the prophets part. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they propheci not just His first coming, but His second coming. So, like I've said, because Yeshua has not come a 2nd time, He has not fullfilled the prophecies.

Anyone who has read and understands the prophets, should understand that. It's not rocket science.

Again, may the almighty blessed you. I will not curse or slander you, it is not my place.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So are you for or against the verses I posted here? Not sure what you are trying to say. Are you saying that when you sin, you only sin in the body and you don't sin in the spirit? Are you saying your future sin is wiped out because of Jesus?

The bible says that JESUS died for us

If so, this will lead a person to think they have a license to sin or to treat sin as if it was a fluffy kitten. But sin is very serious to God. Sin is what put Jesus Christ on the cross. That is how serious God treats sin.

Do you feel it is fair and just for a believer to sin just like an unbeliever and still make it into heaven if they are not sorry about what they do and they are not seeking to change?

The verses that you posted were good verses but if a person is under law then they wouldn't have help from JESUS.

Grace was not available yet. GOD is a SPIRIT and must be worshiped in spirit and in truth and under law grace was not yet available so then they would be constantly sinning and GOD will not accept that

but i am not under law but i am under grace and the spirit of a reborn person is the part that GOD communicates with and in the body under grace if i sin then GOD is faithful to forgive me of all my sins and cleanse me of all unrighteousness.This is not a license to sin but it is grace. JESUS died for us and if he didn't take all sin then i guess his work was not finished and any sins committed in the future wouldn't be paid for.

Sounds like you are in to the physical/human reasoning.

 

[Elin]

"Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:15

I have heard many on CC teach that this scripture says the law is opposed to love because wrath is love's opposition.
Then in order to cause transgressions to stop, the law was abolished and crucified with Christ.
Without the law we are righteous in the sight of God through faith in Christ, because God's grace is also opposed to the law.
God's grace, and God's law are arch enemies one with another.

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator." Galatians 3:19

This verse is referring to the way things were in Old Testament times before Christ was crucified. Now Jesus is the mediator of a better and New Covenant that gives believers peace with God because both the law and transgressions have been done away with by Christ Himself.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4

Then being justified by faith, we are not held guilty for our transgressions which means the law has been crucified with Christ. If we are foolish enough to observe the law, we heap transgressions upon ourselves and we are automatically under its condemnation the same way we were before we were born again. Who would ever want to do that and lose their salvation that the law will surely destroy and re-establish the enmity?

"Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" Ephesians 2:15-16

CONTEXT: Eph 2:11-13
"You who are Gentiles by birth. . .were excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise. . .but now in Christ Jesus you who were once far away have been brought near. . .

TEXT: Eph 2:14-16
he. . .has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,
and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God thhrough the cross."

The enmity was between Jew and Gentile--not between the law and mankind--because of the law which made Gentiles unclean to the Jews.

In abolishing the law with its commandments and regulations, which was the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, Jesus created in himself one new man out of the two (Jews and Gentiles), thus making peace between them as well as reconciling the two to God, all through the cross, by which Jesus put to death both
a) the hostility between Jew and Gentile, and
b) the enmity between mankind (both Jew and Gentile) and God.

The enmity of Eph 2:14-18 is not between man and the law.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen to that....the condemnation of the law has been removed as Jesus satisified the requirements of the law and took upon himself our sin, our condemantion and just due reward of death and secured eternal salvation, justification and sanctification (positionally) for all who execise true faith.....

 

[fredjames]

I'm stating what I know based off of scripture.

This i say to in humble and humility of your 'ignorance', what you have just 'quoted' and a 'correction' to 'just me' who 'likes' yours.

Referring to your own words and that your own 'quote', i have in summary 'highlighted' again, that as you truly 'testified' them, you your 'self' confess that you are truly 'off' testifying of the Holy Scripture.

Friend, they are your own 'words' in witnessing and we are 'witnesses' who have 'exposed' you, to correct you in 'AGAPE' to 'repent' and therefore not continue to claim your innocence in 'representing'.

Do you want to learn or rather teach in incomplete Kingdom knowledge in sound doctrine faith?

After all that has been 'highlighted' in the LORD's reply and corrections as i am only HIS instrument, that you are in 'incompletion' of New Covenant knowledge 'faith' and continuing 'witnessing' in 'blindness', you still want to be 'pointed' of your wrong?

You said JESUS have not 'fulfilled' the saying of the Old Testament Prophets, when JESUS on the Cross said in HIS last 'breath', promised us, even now to 'believe' HIS words/teachings as a 'Church/Body of CHRIST', in 'faith' of Spiritual knowledge of the HOLY BIBLE, especially the New Covenant, that;

"It is accomplished."

 

[Grandpa]

"It is accomplished."

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law (Torah), or the prophets : I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

[fredjames]

This i say to in humble and humility of your 'ignorance', what you have just 'quoted' and a 'correction' to 'just me' who 'likes' yours.

Referring to your own words and that your own 'quote', i have in summary 'highlighted' again, that as you truly 'testified' them, you your 'self' confess that you are truly 'off' testifying of the Holy Scripture.

Friend, they are your own 'words' in witnessing and we are 'witnesses' who have 'exposed' you, to correct you in 'AGAPE' to 'repent' and therefore not continue to claim your innocence in 'representing'.

Do you want to learn or rather teach in incomplete Kingdom knowledge in sound doctrine faith?

After all that has been 'highlighted' in the LORD's reply and corrections as i am only HIS instrument, that you are in 'incompletion' of New Covenant knowledge 'faith' and continuing 'witnessing' in 'blindness', you still want to be 'pointed' of your wrong?

You said JESUS have not 'fulfilled' the saying of the Old Testament Prophets, when JESUS on the Cross said in HIS last 'breath', promised us, even now to 'believe' HIS words/teachings as a 'Church/Body of CHRIST', in 'faith' of Spiritual knowledge of the HOLY BIBLE, especially the New Covenant, that;

"It is accomplished."

Witnessing lambs and sheep, i am 'witnessing' in HOLY BIBLE knowledge 'faith'. In 'faith' to all that is written of even the 'Prophets' have not taken place, but in 'FAITH' of 'ABIDING' believers to the LORD's words/teachings written, please know without any 'doubts', eventually they will all 'come to pass'.

Are we trying to 'limit' GOD through CHRIST in 'testifying', again as it is written that;

"It is accomplished."

You all have moved forward with CHRIST's words/teachings of the New Covenant in 'FAITH', and why do we have to 'look back', towards those who are of 'little faith'.

Please understand our 'duty', that it is not easy to bring the 'ignorant' back easily. But remember this we are fighting a 'Good fight' on behalf of you for CHRIST of the New Covenant that we all must 'abide', that you will be not easily 'beguiled' of the 'deception age', that is ever present in order to 'devour' you and many in 'sweet talking'.

The very same 'sweet talking' practiced on 'Eve' in the Garden of Eden. Their mistakes document for us as a lesson to be 'alert' and 'stay awake' and be 'wiser'.

As it is written and JESUS said this to those who are 'abiding', that;

"Your righteousness must 'exceed' than the righteousness of the Pharisees."