Any Christian Libertarians?

[G4JC]

Hey,
So I see we have a (very small) Conservative Christians Group over at CC groups. To further dwindle that amount, how many of us are at least partially Libertarian. Keep in mind to newbies Libertarian is not "liberal", in fact most political "conservatives" (now turned neo-conservatives) are not as conservative.

Example Libertarian Literature:
The Law, by Frederic Bastiat
The Revolution: A Manifesto: Ron Paul: 9780446537513: Amazon.com: Books
Libertarian Reddit: Social News from a Libertarian Point of View

A Christian Libertarian Blog (not sure I agree with all of it, just found it myself! ) :
Christian, Libertarian | Ruminations on politics, philosophy, economics, theology, culture, and assorted other topics

 

[Tintin]

I like how we do it in Australia, our Christian faith and politics (for the most part) don't mix.

 

[JGPS]

I know quite a lot of Christian Libertarians, and am somewhat one myself.

I don't know of any group here that would be libertarian though.

Though normally libertarians are considered socially liberal and economically conservative, and more than the mainstream of either. I suppose they are more economically conservative than conservatives, but not at all socially.

 

[shawntc]

Libertarian reporting in.

I've always been semi-conservative, semi-liberal. In the past I considered myself conservative, more specifically populist (essentially the opposite of libertarian; socially conservative, economically liberal). However on another Christian forum I created a thread asking people to defend their political alignment Biblically, and I was persuaded by the libertarian response.

You see, as a conservative, I would think and vote in ways that would impose Biblical morality on the general populace, including unbelievers. But there's a problem: the Word is spiritual, and can only be followed by those who have the Holy Spirit. But unbelievers lack the Holy Spirit, so how could I reasonably expect them to follow what are by nature Spiritual principles? That's one strike. Next, when Jesus went out and preached, he didn't pressure anyone to follow him. He let them come and go as they pleased. If they wanted to serve him they could. Why should I pressure Jesus on the unbelievers? Strike two. Lastly, look at the early church. Although people shared what they had, they were free to share or reserve as much as they wanted. It was essentially libertarian. Strike three.

As much as I may disagree with some things that the unbelieving world wants, me trying to impose Christian morality on them won't make them believers. They'll still do what they want, but they'll have a lower opinion of Christians because we tried enforcing our way on them. That's the social side. As far as the economic thing, whether or not the government should say out of the economy, I'm on the fence. It has its advantages and disadvantages.

 

[SoliDeo]

Can you be Christian and Libertarian?

 

[JGPS]

You know Shawn, I came there from a different direction. My idea is that if we don't have people who will embrace God, if we can't have theonomy, then we might as well not have a government that gets in our way. A freedom minded governemnt lets us preach and teach and have our say, while a legalistic governed tends to shut down dissension. If it won't help us at least don't have it get in our way

 

[G4JC]

Can you be Christian and Libertarian?

I think it's possible, yes. The only thing I disagree on is a few social values, e.g. homosexuality being a sin and should be forbidden. Some Libertarians impose that they have rights to marry, note not all. Additionally the majority of Libertarians oppose abortion, mentioning that it imposes on the child's rights to life. Like anything else it has good and bad points, but the good does seem to outway the bad. I would advise reading some online materials and getting a feeling for it youself to see what I mean.

As much as I may disagree with some things that the unbelieving world wants, me trying to impose Christian morality on them won't make them believers. They'll still do what they want, but they'll have a lower opinion of Christians because we tried enforcing our way on them. That's the social side. As far as the economic thing, whether or not the government should say out of the economy, I'm on the fence. It has its advantages and disadvantages.

I am not sure that religon is directly tied into the political aspect. We should still tell people about Jesus and warn them of the place to come if they do not repent (e.g. Hell), I don't consider that pushing it on them. Politically however, we cannot "force" anyone to accept Christ. They tried and failed during the middle ages during the "crusades" to do just this, though on usually a more catholic scale. Ultimately that ended up in re-volts and taking away the peoples freedom to choose. Libertarians believe people should be free to do anything so as long as it does not infringe the freedom or rights of another. I think this makes sense; though ultimately it would still depend on a moral social structure which is found in the Bible.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

Lesser goverment means more freedom, so as long as even that little bit of government does not become corrupted and use it's force for evil.

My idea is that if we don't have people who will embrace God, if we can't have theonomy, then we might as well not have a government that gets in our way. A freedom minded governemnt lets us preach and teach and have our say, while a legalistic governed tends to shut down dissension. If it won't help us at least don't have it get in our way

I know right ^_^

 

[jimmydiggs]

Can you be Christian and Libertarian?

In some ways yes, in some ways no.

I am probably more Conservative and Libertarian than anything else, but the money-hungry social darwinism that is prominent in a lot of Libertarian intellectual thought is frightening.

I sympathize with theonomists in many regards.

 

[JGPS]

The only thing I disagree on is a few social values, e.g. homosexuality being a sin and should be forbidden.

TBH, if we're in a society that allows adultery with no legal repercussions, homosexuality isn't going to make things much worse.

But then, that's my stance, if we can't have theonomy we might as well have liberty.

 

[shawntc]

Can you be Christian and Libertarian?

Sure. Why not?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Sure. Why not?

I was thinking the social Darwinism and the greed was a bit incompatible

 

[JGPS]

I was thinking the social Darwinism and the greed was a bit incompatible

That's not what libertarianism is though... That's like saying you have to believe in the inquisition to be Catholic...

Certianly some libertarians think that way, but it isn't what liberetarianism is.

 

[FlickTiny]

homosexuality should NOT be forbidden. what someone does in their own bedroom shouldn't be the government's business.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Which, of course, then means that you're OK with the government not being able to fine, imprison, or otherwise persecute Christians for refusing to facilitate homosexual immorality and their sacrilege of marriage when homosexuals order them to do so right?

homosexuality should NOT be forbidden. what someone does in their own bedroom shouldn't be the government's business.

 

[p_rehbein]

Food for thought:

Excerpt from Wikipedia.........

Although some present-day libertarians advocate laissez-faire capitalism and strong private property rights,[SUP][3][/SUP] such as in land, infrastructure and natural resources, others, notably libertarian socialists,[SUP][4][/SUP] seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production in favor of their common or cooperative ownership and management.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] While minarchists think that a minimal centralized government is necessary, anarchists propose to completely eliminate the state.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP]
The term libertarianism originally referred to a philosophical belief in free will but later became associated with anti-state socialism and Enlightenment-influenced[SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP] political movements critical of institutional authority believed to serve forms of social domination and injustice. While it has generally retained its earlier political usage as a synonym for either social or individualist anarchism through much of the world, in the United States it has since come to describe pro-capitalist economic liberalism more so than radical, anti-capitalist egalitarianism. In the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, libertarianism is defined as the moral view that agents initially fully own themselves and have certain moral powers to acquire property rights in external things.[SUP][

[/SUP]Found here:


[h=3]Libertarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/h]
Apparently, this label covers quite a wide range of social/political beliefs. I'm thinking "broad is the way....." but, that's just me.

 

[FlickTiny]

yes. i am ok with legalizing their practices. after all, don't they have a right to practice what they do, though you may not approve of it? don't we legalize pagans worshipping their gods?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Which, of course, then means that you're OK with the government not being able to fine, imprison, or otherwise persecute Christians for refusing to facilitate homosexual immorality and their sacrilege of marriage when homosexuals order them to do so right?

yes. i am ok with legalizing their practices. after all, don't they have a right to practice what they do, though you may not approve of it? don't we legalize pagans worshipping their gods?

 

[atwhatcost]

Hey,
So I see we have a (very small) Conservative Christians Group over at CC groups. To further dwindle that amount, how many of us are at least partially Libertarian. Keep in mind to newbies Libertarian is not "liberal", in fact most political "conservatives" (now turned neo-conservatives) are not as conservative.

Example Libertarian Literature:
The Law, by Frederic Bastiat
The Revolution: A Manifesto: Ron Paul: 9780446537513: Amazon.com: Books
Libertarian Reddit: Social News from a Libertarian Point of View

A Christian Libertarian Blog (not sure I agree with all of it, just found it myself! ) :
Christian, Libertarian | Ruminations on politics, philosophy, economics, theology, culture, and assorted other topics

I think the heart of libertarianism is "Just leave me alone to do what I want, and take as little money from me as possible."

I don't see that as a positive thing.

 

[atwhatcost]

I like how we do it in Australia, our Christian faith and politics (for the most part) don't mix.

How can you do that? Almost (should be every, but it isn't) choice I make is because I'm a believer.

 

[Grandpa]

A libertarian wouldn't use the force of government to cause everyone to observe the beliefs of a minority.