The prince of Javan (Daniel 8:1-7)

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MikkoAinasoja

Senior Member
Nov 19, 2014
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1. In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me, Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first. 2. And I saw in the vision; now it was so, that when I saw, I was in Shushan the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in the vision, and I was by the river Ulai. 3. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last. 4. I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; and no beasts could stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and magnified himself. 5. And as I was considering, behold, a he-goat came from the west over the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. 6. And he came to the ram that had the two horns, which I saw standing before the river, and ran upon him in the fury of his power. 7. And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with anger against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns; and there was no power in the ram to stand before him; but he cast him down to the ground, and trampled upon him; and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand (Daniel 8:1-7)

I believe that this, represent the coming of early western civilization to the Persia.
 
The Ram is Alexander the Great. I didn't think that was a theological/historical secret.
 
The Ram is Alexander the Great. I didn't think that was a theological/historical secret.

How can you be so blind?

It is not about man, it is about empire, against empire, and the situation is on also today, and many man has rise, and fall, in both side.
 
How can you be so blind?

It is not about man, it is about empire, against empire, and the situation is on also today, and many man has rise, and fall, in both side.

Calm down! You're not going to make any friends with that attitude. Yes, it's about the ancient Grecian Empire that was expanded in huge ways by Alexander the Great - the Ram.
 
The Ram is Alexander the Great. I didn't think that was a theological/historical secret.

And Alexander the great was not even represent the Persia, but Javan, so under the he-goat, he was fighting, but him self he was not the he-goat, but just a man, involved in much larger happening.

The he-goat came in the west, and Alexander represent the Greece, or the early western culture.
 
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And Alexander the great was not even represent the Persia, but Javan, so under the he-goat, he was fighting, but him self he was not the he-goat, but just a man, involved in much larger happening.

The he-goat came in the west, and Alexander represent the Greece, or the early western culture.

Yes, Alexander the Great was an ancestor of Japheth, to some capacity.
 
JAVAN: One of the sons of Japheth (Gn. 10:2; 1 Ch. 1:5) and father of a group of peoples, *Elishah, *Tarshish, *Kittim and *Dodanim (Gn. 10:4; 1 Ch. 1:7), whose associations are with the regions to the N and W of the Middle East. It is generally accepted that this name (Heb. yāwān) is to be identified with Gk. Iōnes, which occurs as Iaones, probably for Iawones, in Homer (Iliad 13. 685), and refers to the people who later gave their name to Ionia.

The name also occurs in Assyr. and Achaemenian inscriptions (Iâmanu and Yauna respectively). Isaiah mentions the descendants of Javan (lxx Hellas) beside Tubal as one of the nations (gôyîm) inhabiting distant islands and coastlands (’iyyîm, Is. 66:19). In the time of Ezekiel the descendants of Javan (lxx Hellas) were known as traders in men, bronze vessels and yarn, with Tyre (Ezk. 27:13, 19; in v. 19 rsv prefers to read mēûzā, ‘from Uzal’, for meûzzāl, ‘that which is spun, yarn’). The name Javan (evv Greece) is used in the prophecies of Daniel to refer to the kingdom of Alexander of Macedon, and in Zc. 9:13 the term (evv Greece, lxx Hellēnes) is probably used of the Seleucid Greeks.

Javan probably represents the Greek name Ionia, the Greek region of the western coast of Turkey and the Aegean islands. Ionian Greeks settled this area just before the first millennium b.c. There is evidence of contact between them and the Assyrians by the eighth century b.c. Classical Greek literature (e.g., Homer) and philosophy appear to have begun in Ionia.

Bibliography. P. Dhorme, Syria 13, 1932, pp. 35–36; W. Brandenstein and M. Mayrhofer, Handbuch des Altpersischen, 1964, p. 156.
 
And like the prophecy go on, a horn will rise, on that goat, the horn which will cast down the truth.

8. And the he-goat magnified himself exceedingly: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and instead of it there came up four notable horns toward the four winds of heaven. 9. And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the glorious land. 10. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and some of the host and of the stars it cast down to the ground, and trampled upon them. 11. Yea, it magnified itself, even to the prince of the host; and it took away from him the continual burnt-offering, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down. 12. And the host was given over to it together with the continual burnt-offering through transgression; and it cast down truth to the ground, and it did its pleasure and prospered. (Daniel 8::8-12)

36. And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods; and he shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished; for that which is determined shall be done. 37. Neither shall he regard the gods of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall magnify himself above all. (Daniel 11:36-37)

So it very likely that in today's world this horn represent, the western world culture.
 
The Ram is Alexander the Great. I didn't think that was a theological/historical secret.

It's not a secret because Daniel was plainly told who it was....

Daniel 8:19-22[SUP]19 [/SUP]And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
 
And now when we all seems to know that the goat is the western empire, and we may learn that a horn will rise on that same goat, the horn which exalt him self above all.

And today we live in that time period.

The time of that horn has start before the Lord was in the world in flesh.

So the western world is in a strong influence of that king (horn)
 
And now when we all seems to know that the goat is the western empire, and we may learn that a horn will rise on that same goat, the horn which exalt him self above all.

And today we live in that time period.

The time of that horn has start before the Lord was in the world in flesh.

So the western world is in a strong influence of that king (horn)

The kingdom that followed the Grecian Empire was the Roman empire. The little horn was present then, as is still present today. The little horn is the tail of the Red Dragon which is the spirit of a lie, aka spirit of antichrist.

Spirit of antichrist had to be around at the time of Jesus Christ in order to deny that the Christ had come in the flesh. This same spirit is still present today working in many peoples, nations, and tongues. (global Beast)
 
The Ram is Alexander the Great. I didn't think that was a theological/historical secret.

Tintin,

I believe that the ram is the ram is the Medo-Persian empire. The small horn is Medea; and the large horn is Persia.

If you want to personalize the ram: first Cyrus, then Darius Hystaspis, then Xerxes.

The he goat is Alexander the Great; or rather Greece, and Macedonia.


It was Alexander who came later and conquered Persia.
 
The kingdom that followed the Grecian Empire was the Roman empire. The little horn was present then, as is still present today. The little horn is the tail of the Red Dragon which is the spirit of a lie, aka spirit of antichrist.

Spirit of antichrist had to be around at the time of Jesus Christ in order to deny that the Christ had come in the flesh. This same spirit is still present today working in many peoples, nations, and tongues. (global Beast)

Yes the situation is global, but to day's Rome, is western world, the leader of the worlds values.
 
The Ram is Alexander the Great. I didn't think that was a theological/historical secret.
I didn't notice this post before I posted mine. I agree with this one.
I think the goat with one horn is Alexander the Great, and I think the ram with 2 horns is the Medo Persian Empire ( 2 nations in one Empire) that came before the Greek empire.

verse 3. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

verse 5. And as I was considering, behold, a he-goat came from the west over the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. (one horn)

verse 7. And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with anger against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns;
 
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I didn't notice this post before I posted mine. I agree with this one.
I think the goat with one horn is Alexander the Great, and I think the ram with 2 horns is the Medo Persian Empire ( 2 nations in one Empire) that came before the Greek empire.

verse 3. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

verse 5. And as I was considering, behold, a he-goat came from the west over the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. (one horn)

verse 7. And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with anger against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns;

How can you say that the Ram represent Greece, because the Goat comes in the west?

Probably you mean to mean that, the Goat is Greece (Alexander)
 
How can you say that the Ram represent Greece, because the Goat comes in the west?

Probably you mean to mean that, the Goat is Greece (Alexander)

The 2 horns are the Medo Persian Empire. These are 2 nations that came together, being the Medes, and Persians. The 1 horn is the Greek Empire as one nation that conquered the 2.

17_medopersian.png


262721-map-of-ancient-greek-persian-empire.gif
 
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The 2 horns are the Medo Persian Empire. These are 2 nations that came together, being the Medes, and Persians. The 1 horn is the Greek Empire as one nation that conquered the 2.

17_medopersian.png


262721-map-of-ancient-greek-persian-empire.gif

I know that, but the two horns do not belong to the Goat (Greece), but to the Ram (Persia, Media)
 
-Daniel 8, 2nd beast kingdom given to the 3rd system.

1In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel,
2And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace,
which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

-Verse 1 dates when the prophecy was.

(Daniel) recorded the vision in the (third year) of the reign of (Belshazzar)—550 b.c.
He was at (Shushan), at the palace in (the province of Elam) (verse 2).

3“Then I lifted up mine eyes,and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river
a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high;
but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

4I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward;
so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there
any that could deliver out of his hand;
but he did according to his will, and became great” (world rule).

-what is this mysterious ram referred to in verse 3?
God reveals the answer in verse 20:

The (ram) which thou sawest having (two horns) are (the kings of Media (and) Persia).

-the Meds then the stronger persians, world ruling kingdom number two.

5And as I was considering, behold, an (he goat) came from the west on the face of the whole earth,
and touched not the ground: and the goat had (a notable horn between his eyes).
God reveals the answer to this to in verse 21

And the rough (goat) is (the king of Grecia):
and (the great horn) that is between his eyes is the (first king).

The goat represents the Greco-Macedonian Empire,
and the notable horn stands for its first king— (Alexander the Great).

6And he came to the (ram) that had (two horns), which I had seen standing before the river,
and ran unto him in the fury of his power.

7And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him,
and smote the ram,and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him,
but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.

Alexander’s empire overwhelmed the Medo-Persians in 331 b.c.,
just as verses 6 and 7 prophesied it would!

8Therefore the he goat waxed very great:
and when he was strong, the great horn was broken;
and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

-The horn that represented the first Grecian king,Alexander, was suddenly broken.
Alexander the Great, at the height of his power, died of fever suddenly while in Babylon.
He was only 33 years old.

“Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it,
four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.”

-After Alexander died in 323 b.c., his kingdom was divided into (four major parts),
none of which were as strong as Alexander’s empire, .

9And (out of one of them)came forth a (little horn), which waxed exceeding great,
toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

-First, so there is no confusion, this is not referring to the
(little horn) mentioned in Daniel 7:8. That little horn rose up in the midst of the other horns.

In Daniel 8:9, the little horn springs up out of one of the four horns from Alexander’s empire.

10And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and
of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them

this little horn in Daniel 8 is: Antiochus Epiphanes.
Antiochus IV Epiphanes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He came up out of one of the four divisions and, in a sense, bridged
the gap between the Greco-Macedonian Empire and the Roman Empire.

Antiochus was a ruthless dictator who, through deceitful
lies and flatteries, obtained rule in Palestine in 176 b.c.

In 168 b.c., Antiochus pillaged and desecrated the Jews’ temple in Jerusalem.
He also burdened the Jews with unbearable taxes.

But never before, neither under the Assyrians nor under the Babylonians,
had it received such a blow as the edict issued by Antiochus Epiphanes by which
he hoped to crush and destroy the faith of Israel

-This prophecy in Daniel also applies to an end-time Antiochus.
His goal will be to crush the faith of (spiritual) Israel—God’s Church.
 
How can you say that the Ram represent Greece, because the Goat comes in the west?

Probably you mean to mean that, the Goat is Greece (Alexander)
I know that, but the two horns do not belong to the Goat (Greece), but to the Ram (Persia, Media)

3. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.

O quote from my original post "I think the goat with one horn is Alexander the Great, and I think the ram with 2 horns is the Medo Persian Empire ( 2 nations in one Empire) that came before the Greek empire. "

I agree, I didn't say it different. re-read this post
 
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