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A
Hang on lady, that's a bit bossy 
I'm not 'teaching'. I'm expressing a point of view. Do I need your permission for that ?
Anyway, this obviously has the potential for a great deal of fun - although I suspect we've all been here before.
I like the water-dweller bit. Tell me, with all that rain, was the water predominantly fresh or salty - because even a slight change in salinity can annihilate many species ?
But OK, I'll scratch the crocodiles and hippos and whales and water-buffalo (who no doubt could paddle for many months -and eat .... what ?).
Tote up all the other land creatures from the four corners of the globe in twos and sevens and their food - for a year and a bit !
C'mon !
I'm not 'teaching'. I'm expressing a point of view. Do I need your permission for that ?Anyway, this obviously has the potential for a great deal of fun - although I suspect we've all been here before.
I like the water-dweller bit. Tell me, with all that rain, was the water predominantly fresh or salty - because even a slight change in salinity can annihilate many species ?
But OK, I'll scratch the crocodiles and hippos and whales and water-buffalo (who no doubt could paddle for many months -and eat .... what ?).
Tote up all the other land creatures from the four corners of the globe in twos and sevens and their food - for a year and a bit !
C'mon !
BTW, you don't need my permission to present a POV, but the rules on this site do say you're supposed to respect our beliefs.
I asked that too Ella85 . I never ever thought it was for lots of reasons but Ive been told by many that science and Christian beliefs don't mould well on this topic and Christians generally hold to a literal view...not all though
. I never ever thought it was for lots of reasons but Ive been told by many that science and Christian beliefs don't mould well on this topic and Christians generally hold to a literal view...not all though
Everything that was written, happened and is to come.
That is why we can call ourselves Christians because of everything our Father has shared with us, because it has been written.
Adam and eve story has a logical problem.
Who was the witness? God.
Now the story is a summary written from the perspective of earth. It lists the parties involved which could mean as a collective or as individuals. The issue dealt with is how the relationship with God was first established and how it fell apart.
It is very, very light on content or explanation.
Now the most logical source of the story is Moses, talking face to face with God. It is to put the story of origins, and authority. We therefore have a problem as it is to be taken as the story. The principles are open enough to take various views on it, so the meaning is still maintained though the literal or alogorical implications are debated.
The Lord could have made this an exact scientific short work, but that would have changed how we discuss Him and the bible, and not been about us, our relationships, successes and failures. It is always interesting that everything is balanced between enough to have faith in, but not enough to not be content to have no faith at all. It is almost like if you want to know the Lord it has to be because you seriously want to know, not because there are no other options.
Words have many meanings. There is a spiritual idea of hidden meanings, things that are not obvious. Adam and Eve summarise this 100%.
Made in Gods image. Is God like a man? Is man in nature like God? Does man have the potential to behave like God?
Adam spoke face to face with God in the garden, but he was ignorant, did not know he was naked, lacked self awareness.
The choice was death with knowledge or trust and the same.
Now was this a moral choice as Adam was incapable of morality, he did not have self awareness. To become like God, knowing good and evil, it appears man had to choose this with the knowledge he would die. So the root of this knowledge is in ones own heart, which distorts everything because of subjectivity, ie if it is beneficial for you, then it is a good thing.
This inevitably will lead to death.
Is the whole of life therefore a learning to give up this self knowledge and a submission to communion with Jesus so we can get the Lords eternal perspective, which is eternal life. You then realise finding this place is rare, but it needs to be sort after. Adam appeared not to want to search for it, or re-establish the communion. Able did through sacrifice, Cain did not and could not cope with rejection.
Now the issue here is death is brought by this rebellion, not eternal punishment and torture. When there is hope of reunion, communion with the Lord, then the 2nd death becomes relevant, because there is resurrection and judgement.
Many seem happy to accept one life and then the end. This speaks to me of being in the flesh, or in Adam, with knowledge following ones desires and not aspiring towards the creator, or love or something greater.
Who was the witness? God.
Now the story is a summary written from the perspective of earth. It lists the parties involved which could mean as a collective or as individuals. The issue dealt with is how the relationship with God was first established and how it fell apart.
It is very, very light on content or explanation.
Now the most logical source of the story is Moses, talking face to face with God. It is to put the story of origins, and authority. We therefore have a problem as it is to be taken as the story. The principles are open enough to take various views on it, so the meaning is still maintained though the literal or alogorical implications are debated.
The Lord could have made this an exact scientific short work, but that would have changed how we discuss Him and the bible, and not been about us, our relationships, successes and failures. It is always interesting that everything is balanced between enough to have faith in, but not enough to not be content to have no faith at all. It is almost like if you want to know the Lord it has to be because you seriously want to know, not because there are no other options.
Words have many meanings. There is a spiritual idea of hidden meanings, things that are not obvious. Adam and Eve summarise this 100%.
Made in Gods image. Is God like a man? Is man in nature like God? Does man have the potential to behave like God?
Adam spoke face to face with God in the garden, but he was ignorant, did not know he was naked, lacked self awareness.
The choice was death with knowledge or trust and the same.
Now was this a moral choice as Adam was incapable of morality, he did not have self awareness. To become like God, knowing good and evil, it appears man had to choose this with the knowledge he would die. So the root of this knowledge is in ones own heart, which distorts everything because of subjectivity, ie if it is beneficial for you, then it is a good thing.
This inevitably will lead to death.
Is the whole of life therefore a learning to give up this self knowledge and a submission to communion with Jesus so we can get the Lords eternal perspective, which is eternal life. You then realise finding this place is rare, but it needs to be sort after. Adam appeared not to want to search for it, or re-establish the communion. Able did through sacrifice, Cain did not and could not cope with rejection.
Now the issue here is death is brought by this rebellion, not eternal punishment and torture. When there is hope of reunion, communion with the Lord, then the 2nd death becomes relevant, because there is resurrection and judgement.
Many seem happy to accept one life and then the end. This speaks to me of being in the flesh, or in Adam, with knowledge following ones desires and not aspiring towards the creator, or love or something greater.
Nah, she'll be right, dear.
But of course, you have barely scratched the surface - there are tens of thousands more species of water-dwellers in our oceans, lakes and rivers.
I note that you did not address the issue of salinity.
Of those many thousands of species, one wonders how many salt-water beasties would survive all that fresh -
and how many fresh water critters would cope with the mingled oceanic salt.
Not too many, I assure you.
As a keen angler living in a Marine Park I can tell you that if you drop a fresh-water fish into a tank of salt water - even with an aerator - it will rarely survive more than ten minutes.
And vice versa.
But even that is small bickies compared to the fact that the the whole world's land animals (and birds) and insects (in twos and sevens) and all their food for about a year ....
simply could never fit on a vessel with the dimensions given.
Let alone any offspring that would inevitably occur during their cruise.
It is just plain nutty.
But of course, you have barely scratched the surface - there are tens of thousands more species of water-dwellers in our oceans, lakes and rivers.
I note that you did not address the issue of salinity.
Of those many thousands of species, one wonders how many salt-water beasties would survive all that fresh -
and how many fresh water critters would cope with the mingled oceanic salt.
Not too many, I assure you.
As a keen angler living in a Marine Park I can tell you that if you drop a fresh-water fish into a tank of salt water - even with an aerator - it will rarely survive more than ten minutes.
And vice versa.
But even that is small bickies compared to the fact that the the whole world's land animals (and birds) and insects (in twos and sevens) and all their food for about a year ....
simply could never fit on a vessel with the dimensions given.
Let alone any offspring that would inevitably occur during their cruise.
It is just plain nutty.
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I understand what you are saying.
You and I are strangers, yet though I know my wife very well, in some ways we are still strangers. Jesus lived with the deciples 3 years and still they missed the basic perspectives. We gain fellowship, maturity, openness by becoming consistent inside, but until you arrive it appears a mess. The question is how do we help ourselves express our inner love and needs without freezing in pain and disappointment and regressing back to the super defensive people we are.
The first step is to recognise this is who we are.
The scripture is all there, it is the fact of how far in echoes in you heart that is different. To be closed to the Lord is described as hard hearted. This is why some verses suddenly spring out at us, because before the reality they spoke of did not yet chime with where we were.
I will work on the scriptural working through, which I have fully yet to do.
You and I are strangers, yet though I know my wife very well, in some ways we are still strangers. Jesus lived with the deciples 3 years and still they missed the basic perspectives. We gain fellowship, maturity, openness by becoming consistent inside, but until you arrive it appears a mess. The question is how do we help ourselves express our inner love and needs without freezing in pain and disappointment and regressing back to the super defensive people we are.
The first step is to recognise this is who we are.
The scripture is all there, it is the fact of how far in echoes in you heart that is different. To be closed to the Lord is described as hard hearted. This is why some verses suddenly spring out at us, because before the reality they spoke of did not yet chime with where we were.
I will work on the scriptural working through, which I have fully yet to do.
Hi Jay3009,
I have taken part in some of your threads, and have enjoyed doing so, so thank you for starting them. You have your own reasons for not taking part in them, perhaps you listen more than talk, and have many questions than answers to give.
Regarding this subject, I think Crossnote hits the right 'note' (Ha!), when he points out that our Lord endorses the record of Scripture, so it must be true.
Atwhatcost makes an interesting observation in entry #6, too, which has given me food for thought (which I need to think about a little more before responding to), as have others . So, keep on entering my friend.
With love in Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
I have taken part in some of your threads, and have enjoyed doing so, so thank you for starting them.
You have your own reasons for not taking part in them, perhaps you listen more than talk, and have many questions than answers to give.Regarding this subject, I think Crossnote hits the right 'note' (Ha!), when he points out that our Lord endorses the record of Scripture, so it must be true.
Atwhatcost makes an interesting observation in entry #6, too, which has given me food for thought (which I need to think about a little more before responding to), as have others . So, keep on entering my friend.
With love in Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
Smart but not clever?, clever but not smart?, which way round does it go?.
I had a discussion a while ago with an evolutionists who said 'how can 8 million species have lived on noah's ark?'
That's easy to answer, there wasn't 8 million species in noah's day.
In fact, no one human being nor groups of people know exactly all the kinds God created in the beginning, what is understood is that God allowed for variation within the species limitations and boundaries. All you need is the parent kind, God created one man and one woman, yet there are billions of people on planet earth. Easy maths. Jesus said to keep things simple, what a great and intelligent man the Christ Jesus (Son of God) is.
I had a discussion a while ago with an evolutionists who said 'how can 8 million species have lived on noah's ark?'
That's easy to answer, there wasn't 8 million species in noah's day.
In fact, no one human being nor groups of people know exactly all the kinds God created in the beginning, what is understood is that God allowed for variation within the species limitations and boundaries. All you need is the parent kind, God created one man and one woman, yet there are billions of people on planet earth. Easy maths. Jesus said to keep things simple, what a great and intelligent man the Christ Jesus (Son of God) is.
Some food for thought on the story of Noah's Ark.
First, it is impossible for Noah to gather together all the land animals that existed at the time of the flood.
Next, it is impossible for a ship constructed as it ark was to float even when it was empty.
The ark did not have enough room for all the animals of the world, and it would have taken two additional arks for the food for the approximately year long trip.
Finally, the behavior of the animals in relation to each other would have destroyed the ark before the rain came.
You can take the above any way you want to.
The only way that the Ark of Noah completed it's mission, was by the hand of God.
First, it is impossible for Noah to gather together all the land animals that existed at the time of the flood.
Next, it is impossible for a ship constructed as it ark was to float even when it was empty.
The ark did not have enough room for all the animals of the world, and it would have taken two additional arks for the food for the approximately year long trip.
Finally, the behavior of the animals in relation to each other would have destroyed the ark before the rain came.
You can take the above any way you want to.
The only way that the Ark of Noah completed it's mission, was by the hand of God.
It not only was possible. It was done. >
<First, it is impossible for Noah to gather together all the land animals that existed at the time of the flood.>
It not only was possible. It was done. >
<Next, it is impossible for a ship constructed as it ark was to float even when it was empty.>
It not only was possible in the ark, ONE ARK. It was done. >
<The ark did not have enough room for all the animals of the world, and it would have taken two additional arks for the food for the approximately year long trip..>
It not only was possible. It was done. > (WHO?createdTHEanimals? (andAND the animals before the flood (possibly/probably/certainly?) acted different (for (several/many) reasons))
<Finally, the behavior of the animals in relation to each other would have destroyed the ark before the rain came.>
<You can take the above any way you want to.> (or not)
<The only way that the Ark of Noah completed it's mission, was by the hand of God>.
EXACTLY YES! ^^^^^^^^^^^^ There's no reason to believe any differently!
<First, it is impossible for Noah to gather together all the land animals that existed at the time of the flood.>
It not only was possible. It was done. >
<Next, it is impossible for a ship constructed as it ark was to float even when it was empty.>
It not only was possible in the ark, ONE ARK. It was done. >
<The ark did not have enough room for all the animals of the world, and it would have taken two additional arks for the food for the approximately year long trip..>
It not only was possible. It was done. > (WHO?createdTHEanimals? (andAND the animals before the flood (possibly/probably/certainly?) acted different (for (several/many) reasons))
<Finally, the behavior of the animals in relation to each other would have destroyed the ark before the rain came.>
<You can take the above any way you want to.> (or not)
<The only way that the Ark of Noah completed it's mission, was by the hand of God>.
EXACTLY YES! ^^^^^^^^^^^^ There's no reason to believe any differently!
hahaha..In almost every post you manage to somehow add 'rcc heresy' into it...ahh, you make me laugh, in a good way.
the heresy has deceived and murdered billions of souls in the last 2000 years, and influenced
the whole world and the governments of most all nations INTO FORNICATION (the BIBLE SAYS)
and even here on a so-called 'christian' site many are unaware of the demonic influence of the heresy IN THEIR OWN LIVES.
the rcc heresy is insidious worse than all the cancers in the world, worse than all the diseases.