Is the story of Adam, Eve, the Garden of Eden and the snake to be taken as literell?

[weakness]

I was reading the thread on YEC the other day and some were talking about dinosaur footprint being with human. If this was the case, and some on this thread are also young earth, and proponents of human and dinos together,how would they fit on the ark??? And why does everything have to be taken literally? Jesus himself said that the old Testament spoke of him , which it does, But that is not a literal translation ,most of the time, that speaks of Jesus. Why did Jesus say thing are written in parables and not openly?? I think first ,read what is said, and take it for what it says, then any other meaning will be found in the first. Take Jesus parables or proverbs (and others) there is a lot of truth proclaimed, but is not historical,literal, or as having happened as an particular event. But is still the word of God, Able to rebuke, reprove, and edify and teach us. There are some thing that just don't work if taken literally. Where did Cain get his wife? The creation story clearly explains about mans desire to be ruler of himself and to be like God, and brought death into the world. Disobeying Gods command and voice, and this is what is repeated over and over through out the scriptures, hundreds of times. Not what day flowers were made. And that is what is relevant to us . Are we obeying Gods voice NOW. All these thing happened unto them for our example. Not to tempt God, not to test him , to believe his word, to honour and fear the all wonderful and only God, who loves us and has included us in his plan, that he would manifest us as his children and will glorify us and himself in the doing of it.MAny of us , including myself ,strain at the gnat and swallow the camel. I think we hang on to dogmas that we have be taught, fearing to even question them, because we are insecure, not quit as close to God as we want to think we are. But perfect love cast out fear, God truth never changes, If we don't know something we can go to God , he won't reject us like some on earth have. He will love and teach us his ways. He won't put us to ridicule because we are fallible and human. He will love us ,If we go to him openly confessing our sin and our need. Enough said blessings to you

 

[FancyNancy]

satan, and churches that follow satan.

Precisely. Unbelievers tend toward the argument that the Genesis accounts are not literal. What more can be said?

 

[wincam]

now just hark with this lark for it was dark on the Ark with no flood lights or arc lamps and cold so the then few animals and birds etc hibernated so not a lot of food or slopping out was required - according to a master builder the dimensions of the ARK as especially given would make it unsinkable in a storm and guess what some would have us believe that God is an idiot and so is the son of God - for God sent His son to die for something that was not done by someone and His son was just as much an idiot since He did die a horrendous death - daft I call it - or and even dafted each one of the forty days of rain were in fact thousands of years and really the flood was not global but only local - it certainly gets curiouser and curiouser - twinc

 

[wincam]

I was reading the thread on YEC the other day and some were talking about dinosaur footprint being with human. If this was the case, and some on this thread are also young earth, and proponents of human and dinos together,how would they fit on the ark??? And why does everything have to be taken literally? Jesus himself said that the old Testament spoke of him , which it does, But that is not a literal translation ,most of the time, that speaks of Jesus. Why did Jesus say thing are written in parables and not openly?? I think first ,read what is said, and take it for what it says, then any other meaning will be found in the first. Take Jesus parables or proverbs (and others) there is a lot of truth proclaimed, but is not historical,literal, or as having happened as an particular event. But is still the word of God, Able to rebuke, reprove, and edify and teach us. There are some thing that just don't work if taken literally. Where did Cain get his wife? The creation story clearly explains about mans desire to be ruler of himself and to be like God, and brought death into the world. Disobeying Gods command and voice, and this is what is repeated over and over through out the scriptures, hundreds of times. Not what day flowers were made. And that is what is relevant to us . Are we obeying Gods voice NOW. All these thing happened unto them for our example. Not to tempt God, not to test him , to believe his word, to honour and fear the all wonderful and only God, who loves us and has included us in his plan, that he would manifest us as his children and will glorify us and himself in the doing of it.MAny of us , including myself ,strain at the gnat and swallow the camel. I think we hang on to dogmas that we have be taught, fearing to even question them, because we are insecure, not quit as close to God as we want to think we are. But perfect love cast out fear, God truth never changes, If we don't know something we can go to God , he won't reject us like some on earth have. He will love and teach us his ways. He won't put us to ridicule because we are fallible and human. He will love us ,If we go to him openly confessing our sin and our need. Enough said blessings to you

it is of course vice versa that is the case and we must of course, especially as Christians, accept the word/s of God prior to that of any human - so when Jesus said if you do not accept what Moses wrote - so guess what Moses wrote e.g. genesis where baby dinosaurs were taken on the Ark for it is only the big ones that are big but the little ones are little and Cain married one of his sisters which was okay in those days and there was no one else he could marry and even now we marry distant brothers and sisters - btw why not simply simply believe like little children as we are required to do and not like adults who find it very difficult if not impossible to simply simply believe exactly as Jesus said - wincam

 

[wincam]

btw only quite recently has it been disclosed after what appears to be a cover up that Dinosaurs were found buried alongside and along with modern animals, birds, plants and even humans - so there was no millions of years ago and humans and dinosaurs were more than likely exactly as the Bible says created together on the sixth day - so why not just simply simply believe the word/s of God - wincam

 

[Dan58]

I personally believe the story is allegorical, meaning that the snake and tree were representative of something else.

 

[crossnote]

now just hark with this lark for it was dark on the Ark with no flood lights or arc lamps and cold so the then few animals and birds etc hibernated so not a lot of food or slopping out was required - according to a master builder the dimensions of the ARK as especially given would make it unsinkable in a storm and guess what some would have us believe that God is an idiot and so is the son of God - for God sent His son to die for something that was not done by someone and His son was just as much an idiot since He did die a horrendous death - daft I call it - or and even dafted each one of the forty days of rain were in fact thousands of years and really the flood was not global but only local - it certainly gets curiouser and curiouser - twinc

I'd definitely sink with that think.
I'll stick with the great I AM,
rather than listen to wincam.

 

[FancyNancy]

I personally believe the story is allegorical, meaning that the snake and tree were representative of something else.

On what basis do you make that choice?

 

[wincam]

I personally believe the story is allegorical, meaning that the snake and tree were representative of something else.

and Adam and Eve and the Flood and the six days of creation - and why not simply simply believe as is required and as I try to do - wincam

 

[Pumicestone]

.... God allowed for variation within the species limitations and boundaries.
All you need is the parent kind,
God created one man and one woman, yet there are billions of people on planet earth. Easy maths......

So hang on, just so I'm clear, Noah took only two dogs (or maybe seven?) - and from them we have the hundreds (perhaps even thousands) of species which exist today ?
From the Great Dane to the Chihuahua - and even wolves and dingoes and such ?

And in mankind, the Chinese, the pygmy, the Swede and the Eskimo -let alone the Australian aborigine
(which every paleontologist, archaeologist and anthropologist agrees has been here for at least 40,000 years) -
all have actually evolved in what - 6000 years or so ?

Good trick !

 

[Tintin]

I was reading the thread on YEC the other day and some were talking about dinosaur footprint being with human. If this was the case, and some on this thread are also young earth, and proponents of human and dinos together,how would they fit on the ark??? And why does everything have to be taken literally? Jesus himself said that the old Testament spoke of him , which it does, But that is not a literal translation ,most of the time, that speaks of Jesus. Why did Jesus say thing are written in parables and not openly?? I think first ,read what is said, and take it for what it says, then any other meaning will be found in the first. Take Jesus parables or proverbs (and others) there is a lot of truth proclaimed, but is not historical,literal, or as having happened as an particular event. But is still the word of God, Able to rebuke, reprove, and edify and teach us. There are some thing that just don't work if taken literally. Where did Cain get his wife? The creation story clearly explains about mans desire to be ruler of himself and to be like God, and brought death into the world. Disobeying Gods command and voice, and this is what is repeated over and over through out the scriptures, hundreds of times. Not what day flowers were made. And that is what is relevant to us . Are we obeying Gods voice NOW. All these thing happened unto them for our example. Not to tempt God, not to test him , to believe his word, to honour and fear the all wonderful and only God, who loves us and has included us in his plan, that he would manifest us as his children and will glorify us and himself in the doing of it.MAny of us , including myself ,strain at the gnat and swallow the camel. I think we hang on to dogmas that we have be taught, fearing to even question them, because we are insecure, not quit as close to God as we want to think we are. But perfect love cast out fear, God truth never changes, If we don't know something we can go to God , he won't reject us like some on earth have. He will love and teach us his ways. He won't put us to ridicule because we are fallible and human. He will love us ,If we go to him openly confessing our sin and our need. Enough said blessings to you

Good gravy! You sound terribly confused. You don't know what you believe. I've noticed that a lot with your posts. You seem to contradict yourself all the time. How about believing God's Word? Start by ditching the 'everything's a parable' bollocks.

 

[crossnote]

Good gravy! You sound terribly confused. You don't know what you believe. I've noticed that a lot with your posts. You seem to contradict yourself all the time. How about believing God's Word? Start by ditching the 'everything's a parable' bollocks.

Zounds like you're having a good Mornin Aussie.

 

[Pumicestone]

Jesus took it literal so err ......

"err" indeed !

 

[Pumicestone]

Jay3009, you are starting a lot of threads in a short period of time and not much partaking in the discussions of same. Flooding tendency. Flooding is against the forum rules. Mind the netiquette.

Jay3009 ................. 1.14 posts per day

Tribesman .............. 2.94 posts per day

Pretty much one-liners in both cases.
In fact, one is initiating discussion. The other is harping on rules. Sorry.

 

[Dan58]

On what basis do you make that choice?

Simply that the Tree of Life represented Christ, the Tree of Good & Evil represented death, the serpent represented Satan, etc.

and Adam and Eve and the Flood and the six ys of creation - and why not simply believe as is required and as I try to do - wincam

Most of the bible can be taken literally, but there's also a lot of symbolism, and this requires interpretation. For example, its impossible to understand Revelation without understanding what represents what.

 

[Isaacsname]

We'll have to see what messiah says, as only he would know the Objective and " absolute " truth about the scriptures

 

[Jeff_56]

"TODAY, if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts...." (as they did in the wilderness...)

Hebrews 3:12-15 NKJV - Beware, brethren, lest there be in any ...

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews...15...‎

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in ... “Today,
if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” ...


some things won't make much difference, perhaps.... other things associated with them might make a great deal of difference - life and death even.....

for instance, believing in evolution leads to spiritual death , or may simply prevent someone from receiving redemption from their sin (so they never receive life to start with);
believing that everything was created through yahshua hamashiach(jesus messiah savior king) is part of spiritual life by grace through faith in christ jesus.

 

[CWJ]

Adam, Eve, and Garden are all true.

Snake? Not a snake. A serpent. It had legs and then didn't, so I'm thinking more lizardy than snakey. And, not really entirely reptiley, since it's root is connected to the OT word for magic. It talked, so I suspect it's some how related to demonic. There's just not enough to grab onto to know one way or another other than historic, thus real.

Hello atwhatcost,

Your words (above) triggered a thought process for me: for when I read the words, 'it talked', my mind went to the Lord's rebuke in Matthew 16:23:-

'But He turned, and said unto Peter,
"Get thee behind me, Satan:
thou art an offence unto me:
for thou savourest not the things that be of God,
but those that be of men."'

* It was Peter who had spoken, but it was Satan, (who was using Peter to try to deflect the Lord from fulfilling His Father's will), whom our Lord rebuked.

My 'thought' concerning the snake was that it was being used by Satan, and that it was Satan that spoke through him, yet in Revelation 12:9, and 20:2, Satan is again referred to as, ' ... that old serpent', ' ... the great dragon'.

We know that Satan can transform himself into other guises, for in 2 Cor.11:14, he is spoken of as being transformed into an angel of light.

These are just thoughts, atwhatcost, and are still ongoing, yet I thank you for prompting them.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[birdie]

Precisely. Unbelievers tend toward the argument that the Genesis accounts are not literal. What more can be said?

God tends towards the argument that the Bible is written in parable form: "Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
2I will open my mouth in a parable" (Psalm 78:1-2)

"And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:12That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

In other words, the true believers are given to understand the mysteries of the kingdom, but the unsaved encounter the Bible but all of it is done in parables which they do not understand.

Given that parables have an interpreted meaning which is the most important meaning, people sure do spend a lot of time trying to figure out the surface text. I think getting at the interpreted meaning is far and away the most important thing for parables.

 

[kedge]

So hang on, just so I'm clear, Noah took only two dogs (or maybe seven?)

It was always my understanding/interpretation that noah was given instructions/commands to build only the ark and that God's holy spirit or force guided the animals to the ark?. It does not say how many dog kinds were placed on the ark.

- and from them we have the hundreds (perhaps even thousands) of species which exist today ?

Thousands of species?, i just see many variations of dogs.

From the Great Dane to the Chihuahua - and even wolves and dingoes and such ?

The dog genome, they are the dog kind, canidae.

And in mankind, the Chinese, the pygmy, the Swede and the Eskimo -let alone the Australian aborigine.

All human kind, in fact mankind.

(which every paleontologist, archaeologist and anthropologist agrees has been here for at least 40,000 years).

Allegedly, that is their worldview based upon assumptions not fact.

all have actually evolved in what - 6000 years or so ?

Evolved in six thousand years no, i don't observe evolution, created in six thousand years?, don't know, know way i can truly know with absolute certainty. Creation by God yes, how long the creation period was?, i have no idea, impossible for me to ever know the answer to that question.

Good trick !

No artifice from me