When does the rapture occur?

flob · Jun 2, 2015

Lol.
That must be why Paul wrote: I don't want you, brothers, to be ignorant of this mystery (lest you be wise in yourselves), that hardness has come upon Israel in part, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in; and thus all Israel will be saved, as it is written, 'The Deliverer will come out of Zion, He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob, and this is the covenant from Me with them, when I take away their sins.' Rm 11:25-27. He must have written that before he saw Stephen stoned.
Before Isaiah 59:20-21 was fulfilled.

Is when 'vision and prophet were sealed up and the Holy of Holies was anointed' Dan 9:24.
Thanks for the thoughtful input. So too must Mt 24:15 have been fulfilled.
Since you figured out 'about the time' God already's finished with Israel in this age,
do you know what was the 'firm covenant' who made with what many, when the Lord began His ministry?
And who are 'the people of the prince who will come'? (Dan 9:26)
Wait, my bad: 9:27 comes before 9:26.

Gary if you feel that there is anything even close to intelligent or sane in the posts you
reference, please feel welcome to quote it or put in your own words here. Maybe.....the
one, best, least insane thing first, so I can learn it and be helped.
Thanks

Gr8grace · Jun 2, 2015

PlainWord said:

I appreciate this sentiment. I am a Pre-trib believer at this point in my walk. I know that being caught up in a twinkling of an eye is in an instant. No smooth talking, no conversations just POOF and gone. So if I am still here and see this. I will KNOW who it really is.

PlainWord · Jun 2, 2015

Gr8grace said:

That's awesome. You too will be fine then as long as you remember this.

popeye · Jun 2, 2015

PlainWord said:

Dan 9:26-27 is one of the most controversial and contentious passages of prophesy in the whole Bible. I am not going to suggest that I have it sorted out but let's face it, 69 of 70 weeks clearly dealt with the past, the rebuilding of the second temple and Christ. Then we have the mysterious 70th week. Some see a 2,000 +/- year gap with the "AntiChrist" making a treaty with Israel in the middle of the week (7 years), some don't. Many see the covenant as the one made with Christ, others see it as a future peace treaty with Israel whereby Israel is deceived and immediately attacked. The point is, this passage in Daniel is full of speculation and we shouldn't try to derive too much from it unless and until it starts making sense. I am more interested in Dan 7, 8, 11 and 12.

Regardless, Israel has made many peace treaties with Arab countries. Who else is there for them to make peace with? They are surrounded by only Arab nations. I believe they have done 6 major treaties involving Arab nations/leaders to date. So, for Israel to sign another peace treaty with an Arab AntiChrist would not only be normal, it would sorta be expected, would it not? After all, who has been at war with Israel if not Arab nations?

I do not think the AntiChrist (Man of Sin) is ISIS or will come from the same area as ISIS. Daniel 11 discusses warring kings from the North and South. I believe these kings are Muslim and they are from the North and South of Israel. I think either Saudi Arabia or Egypt are strong candidates to be the one(s) from the South and both are prominently mentioned in prophesy. The North could be Turkey, could be Russia, could be in an alliance with ISIS, could be Iran. Lots of candidates to watch.

Rev 13 discusses the BEAST from the Sea and the BEAST from the EARTH. The BEAST from the EARTH comes about 42 months after the BEAST from the SEA. I am not one to make predictions with specific dates as everyone who has has been wrong. But I do think it's fun to see if dates fit then watch to see if it happens. What are we told about the BEAST of the SEA? It is given a mouth (speaker/leader) who blasphemes for 42 months. 42 x 30 = 1260 days. ISIS announced it's caliphate on June 28, 2014. At the time ISIS told the Arab world to either get on board with them or be killed - sound familiar? They have been killing anyone opposed to them since.

So, what date is 42 months from June 28, 2014? Try December 9, 2017. Guess what day this is? It is a Saturday AKA Sabbath and it's during the Winter (close to it).

[SUP]20 [/SUP]And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

I am watching to see if Dec 9, 2017 could be the start of the Great Tribulation, the date the Abomination of Desolation is set up in a Holy Place, the day the Man of Sin appears attempting to deceive Jews and/or Christians into thinking he is God. It is interesting to me that the Lord gave these two clues. Is it because it is difficult to travel on a Saturday in Israel? Do they get lot of snow in the winter? NO, of course not. So why the warning?

It's all about the HARVEST. You do not harvest out of season and you certainly don't harvest on the Sabbath. Therefore if a "god" comes on the Sabbath, do not believe it. If a "god" tries to harvest out of season, do not believe it. When Christ comes, it will be very likely in September during the Feast of Trumpets. That would be my best guess and it's only a guess. But I would not expect Christ ever to come on the Sabbath.

The Muslims are awaiting the return of someone too. I agree, the figure that comes will be intriguing to a lot of different peoples/faiths. The miracles performed will be compelling to many. Those of us who are watchers will sound the alarm but (and I say this with love) many will think he is the Christ because many think Christ comes first. This one fact alone will deceive a lot of believers, especially those who do not know very much about prophesy and the things to look for.

I think my friends on here like you VCO, will immediately recognize the Man of Sin as not being Jesus. At this point you will be forced to reconsider your rapture timing so I don't see you as being deceived because you have been paying attention and watching.

5 wise virgins
One taken,one left behind
Lot
Noah

Show me the boggey man that preceeded these.

..and,uh,they all are Jesus' examples.

OOOPS

popeye · Jun 2, 2015

popeye said:

Sorry,double post

popeye · Jun 2, 2015

In one of the 'rapture/GT' movies,the AC is standing on a mountain and watching his army getting the best of the other side,
He looks down on a believer,in chaains at his feet,and with an evil laugh he says "ha,ha,where is your God now?"

The man looks up and says "he'll be here"

This is in direct opposittion to your remarks about us being so lost when the rapture,by your words "doesn't happen"

PlainWord · Jun 2, 2015

popeye said:

Many pre-tribbers will be deceived. I've always said that. It's just common sense. If you think Christ comes first and a spiritual powerful being like Satan shows up, does miracles and claims to be God or Christ or whatever, many weak Christians will be deceived and go out. But for those like you, and VCO, Kenneth and others who are very knowledgeable about prophesies concerning the Man of Sin, should recognize him for what he is. Obviously some will still be deceived because "pride cometh before the fall" and they just won't admit even to themselves that they were wrong.

Time will tell who figure it out and who doesn't. The problem is it sounds like it will happen fast. There will be little time to discern. Remember what Jesus says??

[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. [SUP]24 [/SUP]For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. [SUP]25 [/SUP]See, I have told you beforehand.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]“Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.

Who are the "anyone" Jesus references in verse 23? I don't think it will be your neighbor, best friend or relative. I believe the anyone will be demons claiming to be angels. I'm only guessing but it is a strong gut feeling I have based on everything we've been told.

We do know that when the Man of Sin comes, he is Wormwood and many in the Christian world are suddenly wiped out. When these Christians are killed, 1/3 of the "Light of the World" are removed. I'm speculating on this but it makes sense.

PlainWord · Jun 2, 2015

popeye said:

Don't confuse the Second Coming with the Bogey Man. The Bogey Man comes first. 5 of these virgins might be foolish but they weren't dumb enough to go out for the false Groom. The Bogey Man is back in verse 15-28.

PlainWord · Jun 2, 2015

Here is an excerpt from a Rueters story that ran on 6/29/2014. The original article in black, scripture in blue.

By Sylvia Westall
BEIRUT, June 29 (Reuters) - An offshoot of al Qaeda which has captured territory in Iraq and Syria has declared itself an Islamic "caliphate" and called on factions worldwide to pledge their allegiance, a statement posted on Islamist websites and Twitter said on Sunday.

And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.

The group, previously known as the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and also known as ISIS, has renamed itself "Islamic State" and proclaimed its leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi as "Caliph" - the head of the state, the statement said.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.

"He is the imam and khalifah (Caliph) for the Muslims everywhere," the group's spokesman Abu Muhammad al-Adnani said in the statement, which was translated into several languages and read out in an Arabic audio speech.

"Accordingly, the "Iraq and Sham" (Levant) in the name of the Islamic State is henceforth removed from all official deliberations and communications, and the official name is the Islamic State from the date of this declaration," he said.

It seeks to re-create a medieval-style caliphate erasing borders from the Mediterranean to the Gulf and deems Shi'ite Muslims to be heretics deserving death.

"It is incumbent upon all Muslims to pledge allegiance to (him) and support him...The legality of all emirates, groups, states, and organizations, becomes null by the expansion of the khalifah's authority and arrival of its troops to their areas," the statement said.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

In Syria, the group has alienated many civilians and opposition activists by imposing harsh rulings against dissent, even beheading and crucifying opponents, in areas it controls.

In Iraq it has been accused by rights groups of carrying out mass executions in the northern city of Tikrit and in Lebanon the group claimed a suicide attack at a hotel on Wednesday.

Charles Lister, Visiting Fellow at the Brookings Doha Center, saw considerable significance in the group's declaration.

"Whatever judgments are made in terms of its legitimacy, (the) announcement that it has restored the Caliphate is likely the most significant development in international jihadism since 9/11.

"The impact of this announcement will be global as al-Qaeda affiliates and independent jihadist groups must now definitively choose to support and join the Islamic State or to oppose it."

Gulf Arab states such as Saudi Arabia are likely to be alarmed by the open declaration of a caliphate that challenges their power and the dynastic system on which it rests. Saudi Arabia fought al Qaeda militants for several years, finally crushing their campaign in 2006.

Fighters from the group overran the Iraqi city of Mosul last month in a lightning action and have advanced towards Baghdad. In Syria they have captured territory in the north and east, along the frontier with Iraq.

The group crucified eight rival rebel fighters in Syria, a monitoring group said on Sunday, and it has frequently fought with al Qaeda's Syrian wing and other armed Islamist groups.

Such infighting has killed around 7,000 people in the country so far this year and complicated the three-year uprising against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. (Reporting by Sylvia Westall in Beirut and Ali Abdelaty in Cairo,; editing by Ralph Boulton)

popeye · Jun 2, 2015

PlainWord said:

false groom?

No such of a thing.

5 foolish,or wise had no such encounter.

Stop using a shot gun dude.

But apparently you agree that there is no villian revealed before the rapture,since Jesus did not include any in those verses I mentioned

popeye · Jun 2, 2015

PlainWord said:

I shall call this the "secret postrib appearing of the wrong messiah",as only PW and a handfull of postribs have this insight.

popeye · Jun 2, 2015

...........also known as the secret non-rapture.

popeye · Jun 2, 2015

.........too funny

Called4Christ · Jun 2, 2015

Concerning 666 being equivalent to "In the name of Allah"...I found this video of someone refuting it with some pretty good logic. Any thoughts on this, PlainWord? (I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I'm genuinely interested in what your response is).

https://youtu.be/N1H7w8ob6jo?t=11m55s

VCO · Jun 2, 2015

PlainWord said:

I have news for you, when we came home during the Vietnam Era it was U.S. college kids that spit at us; no thanks to Fonda Jane, who should have been tried for TREASON. Only in very recent years have a few of them come up and apologized to me and thanked me for my Service.

Bad behavior on the part of kids and students is just a lack of Discipline from the parents when they where going up. BUT they do not make the public policies. Like A California Department of Correction's bumper sticker said, "If you don't discipline you kids when they are going up, WE WILL when they get older."

There were a few leftist Students when I was in Turkey, and spitting does not make one a Terrorist. The only real problem was the undisciplined kids who loved to shoot rocks at our vehicles with their slingshots when we drove by. Turkey is famous for a very moderate form of Islamic beliefs. But we will see.

Those are all pictures of Modern Day Turks. What DON'T YOU SEE? Do you see Radicalization in the general populous? I DO NOT. Sure they have some Radical Students who think they know it all, and stir up trouble, just like we have here. But those Radical Students are NOT the Yard Stick to measure the general Population. So I think the possibility Turkey becoming Radicalized ISIS supporters, is VERY REMOTE, even though you want it to be so to fit your theory. Would it be fair to measure the attitude of the all Americans by what happened in BOSTON? Turks in general are Highly Patriotic, hard working people, who just happen to immensely dislike the Kurds because of recent wars and skirmishes with them. That is all I see, and because we want help the Kurds, sure there is a little tension there right now.

VCO · Jun 2, 2015

Gr8grace said:

Oh YES, in fact that expression means that it is such a minute particle of time that it cannot be measured.

The Calling Out of the Bride to go to the Wedding of the Lamb, will be VERY FAST, with NO time to buy oil:

Matthew 24:27 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For you yourselves know very well that the Day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.

Revelation 3:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I am coming quickly. Hold on to what you have, so that no one takes your crown.

The Second Coming will be VERY SLOW, so that the world's Armies have time to Gather to make WAR against the LORD.

Revelation 19:11-15 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then I saw heaven opened, and there was a white horse. Its rider is called Faithful and True, and He judges and makes war in righteousness.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes were like a fiery flame, and many crowns were on His head. He had a name written that no one knows except Himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He wore a robe stained with blood, and His name is the Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies that were in heaven followed Him on white horses, wearing pure white linen.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] A sharp sword came from His mouth, so that He might strike the nations with it. He will shepherd them with an iron scepter. He will also trample the winepress of the fierce anger of God, the Almighty.

Revelation 19:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and against His army.

PlainWord · Jun 2, 2015

VCO,

Thank you for your service. We aren't going to have any disagreements on the poor treatment too many of our US servicemen received upon returning home from Vietnam. I'm not too young to remember.

As for Turkey, things can change rapidly. Remember Iran after the Shah? Remember Iraq after the USS Cole? I was in the Gulf then on a US Merchant Ship carrying JP4 & 5 from Bahrain to our bases in Japan and the PI. Iranian gun ships would buzz our decks. 99 merchant ships were hit by missiles during the Iran/Iraq war. Anyway, I digress.

The sentiment of the current Turkish president is cool toward the west at best. He has expressed the desire to see Turkey regain it's former glory it had during the Ottoman Empire. An alliance between Turkey and ISIS right now seems like long odds but it only takes one event to change that. ISIS is at odds with the Kurds and so is Turkey and you know what they say about the enemy of your enemy?

Here are some recent headlines:

[h=1]Turkish president accuses 'the West' of being behind Charlie Hebdo attacks and deliberately 'blaming Muslims' as conspiracy theories sweep the Internet accusing Israel of orchestrating it[/h]

Did the West write Erdogan off for Israel’s sake? In remarks to journalists last week, Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu acknowledged that Turkey’s image in the Western media had turned negative, but argued this was all a plot. “There is an international media network in the world. We are doing our best, but this network has made a decision to finish off Turkey’s success story and demonize President [Recep Tayyip] Erdogan. That’s their objective. They have moved against Turkey as if a button was pressed after 2010, that is, after the 'one-minute' incident in Davos.”
Summary⎙ Print The Western media’s anti-Erdogan stance is fueled by Erdogan’s own partisan and ideological rhetoric.
Author Mustafa Akyol Posted January 22, 2015 TranslatorSibel Utku Bila

In other words, Davutoglu basically suggested that pro-Israeli domains, infuriated with “New Turkey” for its brave defense of the downtrodden Palestinian people, were behind Western criticism of Erdogan.

Read more: Did the West write Erdogan off for Israel’s sake? - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

[h=1]The New Sultan of Turkey[/h] 532 73
50
[h=2]Recep Tayyip Erdogan isn’t satisfied leading a prosperous rising power. He also wants it all to himself.[/h]
Heck, you can Google these stories yourself. Times are a changing my friend. My prediction is for an ever hostile Turkey that could align against us.

PlainWord · Jun 2, 2015

You should consider comparing scripture to teachings of man. What is said about the 5 virgins who didn't have enough oil?

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ [SUP]9 [/SUP]But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’

Clearly, they had a little time, enough to talk to the other girls

. There was no time to buy oil and return but there was enough time to know he was coming and inquire of the other virgins.

I think too many people (not saying you VCO) are quick to look at a piece of scripture and jump to conclusions without seeing the whole picture. Before Christ comes, we know. There will be clear signs. There will be time for men to flee and beg for rocks to fall on them, etc. I believe heaven is in another dimension and will appear to us. But who knows?

PlainWord · Jun 2, 2015

Just to be clear, once the Lord does return, it will be like a flash, but we will know He is close and getting ready by the signs we are given.

popeye · Jun 2, 2015

PlainWord said:

Flash at the rapture.

But at the end of the GT he returns with a great army of saints on white horses.. That will take some time for possibly MILLIONS OF us on white horses to assemble in the atmosphere. At least several minutes.

You might as well give up on trying to MAKE both of them one event

When does the rapture occur?

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