POLL: The Deity of Christ
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John 14 is the key to my questioning of the standard Trinity doctrine.
If Jesus' oneness with the Father binds Him into the Trinity based on the words of verses 9-11, then we are also in the Trinity based on verse 20.
I am part of a Baptist congregation. I do not separate myself from my church family over small differences. I reserve discussions like this one for conversations with fellow deacons and elders. It's not really the sort of thing you preach about, or even talk about with someone you are discipling. It's just knowledge, and has no practical purpose other than seeking understanding for the sake of understanding.
Like most of the "higher theologies", there is no power in them. They are just man's thoughts about God, with a few proof texts that people debate about. The Gospel on the other hand, is not debatable because it is powerful.
If Jesus' oneness with the Father binds Him into the Trinity based on the words of verses 9-11, then we are also in the Trinity based on verse 20.
I am part of a Baptist congregation. I do not separate myself from my church family over small differences. I reserve discussions like this one for conversations with fellow deacons and elders. It's not really the sort of thing you preach about, or even talk about with someone you are discipling. It's just knowledge, and has no practical purpose other than seeking understanding for the sake of understanding.
Like most of the "higher theologies", there is no power in them. They are just man's thoughts about God, with a few proof texts that people debate about. The Gospel on the other hand, is not debatable because it is powerful.
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The Pharisees of Jesus day have more excuse than some in this debate who seek to condemn others. For they quoted the literal letter to condemn, though they did not understand the heart of what that letter contained. No one in this debate has the literal letter to insist you must believe Christ is God himself to be saved, only the mind of man
.yeah.......uh, well............NO If one denies the Deity of Christ, one denies Christ. How does one deny Christ and receive eternal life? And even you say His is Lord. Trying to reduce Him to a simple creation as are all of God's other creations is to deny Him. Can't have it both ways. Either one believes in Him or one denies Him, and the path for both is spelled out in Scripture quite clearly.
Interesting theory.................and I would not doubt it............Only thing that bothers me is that a person professes to be a Christian.........and then denies the Deity of Christ.
How does that even make sense? To anyone? If they want to deny the Deity of Christ, they have that right, but just come up with another "name, title" label" to call themselves so as not to be a hypocrite by their own assertion.
(edited to add)
I also see that only one person has voted NO, and I am aware of at least three more members here who have openly denied the Deity of Christ. So, I can only believe they did not participate in the voting. Have to wonder why. As well, there are two commenting on the thread now who deny the Deity of Christ.......
The three ??? votes I can understand to a degree, they could vote so for many reasons, and none of those reasons be the denial of Christ or His Deity.
How does that even make sense? To anyone? If they want to deny the Deity of Christ, they have that right, but just come up with another "name, title" label" to call themselves so as not to be a hypocrite by their own assertion.
(edited to add)
I also see that only one person has voted NO, and I am aware of at least three more members here who have openly denied the Deity of Christ. So, I can only believe they did not participate in the voting. Have to wonder why. As well, there are two commenting on the thread now who deny the Deity of Christ.......
The three ??? votes I can understand to a degree, they could vote so for many reasons, and none of those reasons be the denial of Christ or His Deity.
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I disagree with your interpretation there...........however, we - man - are a triune being........body, soul, spirit......and that should be the clue/key to understanding how God can be a Triune God, but far too many people are blinded to the truth.
As for not teaching/preaching of the Deity of Christ, or the Holy Trinity...........anyone Preacher/Teacher who does not is not worthy of being such in my opinion. The Holy Trinity, the Godhead, is the foundation of our Faith. Without God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, there is no Christian faith.
To suggest that only deacons or elders are able to comprehend the truth of the Deity of Christ and the Holy Trinity seems odd to me............it ain't brain surgery.
As for not teaching/preaching of the Deity of Christ, or the Holy Trinity...........anyone Preacher/Teacher who does not is not worthy of being such in my opinion. The Holy Trinity, the Godhead, is the foundation of our Faith. Without God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, there is no Christian faith.
To suggest that only deacons or elders are able to comprehend the truth of the Deity of Christ and the Holy Trinity seems odd to me............it ain't brain surgery.
[h=1]Hebrews
1[/h]
1 .) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 .) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 .) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 .) Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 .) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 .) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 .) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 .) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 .) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 .) And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 .) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 .) And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13 .) But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 .) Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
How does one read this Chapter from Hebrews and deny the Deity of Christ? One HAS TO REALLY, REALLY want to I suppose.
1[/h]
1 .) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 .) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 .) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 .) Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 .) For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 .) And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 .) And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 .) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 .) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 .) And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 .) They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 .) And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13 .) But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 .) Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
How does one read this Chapter from Hebrews and deny the Deity of Christ? One HAS TO REALLY, REALLY want to I suppose.
T
The Bible is quite clear that Jesus is God.
For example John 10:22-39 is quite clear on the subject and leaves you to choose one of three options about who Jesus Christ is. Either he was truthful and he is Lord. He was purposefully deceptive and he was a liar. Or he was not purposefully deceptive and he was a lunatic.
Only one of those three choices brings you to a saving faith in Christ.
For example John 10:22-39 is quite clear on the subject and leaves you to choose one of three options about who Jesus Christ is. Either he was truthful and he is Lord. He was purposefully deceptive and he was a liar. Or he was not purposefully deceptive and he was a lunatic.
Only one of those three choices brings you to a saving faith in Christ.
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Jesus words told us what and WHO to fear:
Luk 12:5 God is the one you must fear. Not only can he take your life, but he can throw you into hell. God is certainly the one you should fear!
God, Himself, witnessed about His Son, saying: Listen to Him!
Mat 17:5 While Peter was still speaking, the shadow of a bright cloud passed over them. From the cloud a voice said, "This is my own dear Son, and I am pleased with him. Listen to what he says!"
Luk 12:5 God is the one you must fear. Not only can he take your life, but he can throw you into hell. God is certainly the one you should fear!
God, Himself, witnessed about His Son, saying: Listen to Him!
Mat 17:5 While Peter was still speaking, the shadow of a bright cloud passed over them. From the cloud a voice said, "This is my own dear Son, and I am pleased with him. Listen to what he says!"