Pride goes before destruction

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3Scoreand10 said:
What some do not understand is that when you attack what I believe and call it evil that is a personal attack on me.
When you say OSAS is an evil belief, you are saying all who believe OSAS are evil.
To end your post with "I love you" does not change the fact that you have attacked me personally because you attacked my belief.
I know those who attack OSAS will deny what I have just said .
The difference is that I am mature enough to just let it go and not threaten to have them banned.
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No. There is a difference between me attacking you versus me attacking a wrong belief and or sin. For example: I can say that being a murderer is evil and wrong and yet still love the person as a human being and show forth them love and respect. In other words, it would sort of be like me getting mad at someone I love. I would hate what they were doing, but I would still love them personally as a human being. For the Scriptures say we shall not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but we should reprove them. How can I reprove the works of darkness if I do not stand up for what is good and right and point out what is bad? It is it wrong to have morals and to point them out?

Even Jesus and his apostles stood up for what was good and right. Is one going to condemn them because they told us what was good and right?
 
Jason0047 said:
When I talked at Theology Online (and spoke out against OSAS), some pretty hateful words were said to me there that would never fly here. Nothing here has changed all that much (except the intensity of those attacks). I have been attacked and I did not seek to set out to attack any one particular person. I set out to attack the belief or the wrong doctrine. Yet, people make it personal. Why? Because Jesus said that this would happen. Bless them that persecute and speak all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake.
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I have plenty of splints and slings in case you break your arm patting yourself on the back.
 
Reborn said:
Cool.
I can offer up some Advil.
For the pain and swelling of the ego.
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I'm trying to be respectful, honestly, especially after Ken shared his pictures -- they touched my heart, but I'm not going to let anyone get away with nauseating, self righteous comments like this:

I have been attacked and I did not seek to set out to attack any one particular person. I set out to attack the belief or the wrong doctrine. Yet, people make it personal. Why? Because Jesus said that this would happen. Bless them that persecute and speak all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake.
 
Utah said:
I'm trying to be respectful, honestly, especially after Ken shared his pictures -- they touched my heart, but I'm not going to let anyone get away with nauseating, self righteous comments like this:

I have been attacked and I did not seek to set out to attack any one particular person. I set out to attack the belief or the wrong doctrine. Yet, people make it personal. Why? Because Jesus said that this would happen. Bless them that persecute and speak all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake.
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I have no words for statements like that.

Here? By other Christians? Real Persecution?
They should be ashamed of themselves.
 
I think this qualifies more as "light affliction" not persecution by any standard :D

And that's only if one is offended by a difference in opinion on doctrine
 
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Luke 6:22
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

Hate in your heart is shown as murder...

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him
 
psalm6819 said:
I think this qualifies more as "light affliction" not persecution by any standard :D

And that's only if one is offended by a difference in opinion on doctrine
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Hers the son born after the flesh (shows mocking)

Gen 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.

Paul calls the same persecution

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh
persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Trial of cruel mockings beats being sawn assunder

Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Mockers again

Psalam 25:16 With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth.




 
Jason0047 said:
No. There is a difference between me attacking you versus me attacking a wrong belief and or sin. For example: I can say that being a murderer is evil and wrong and yet still love the person as a human being and show forth them love and respect. In other words, it would sort of be like me getting mad at someone I love. I would hate what they were doing, but I would still love them personally as a human being. For the Scriptures say we shall not have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but we should reprove them. How can I reprove the works of darkness if I do not stand up for what is good and right and point out what is bad? It is it wrong to have morals and to point them out?

Even Jesus and his apostles stood up for what was good and right. Is one going to condemn them because they told us what was good and right?
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You did what I expected you to do.
You deny that you offended me. In my mind , You did.
But I do not cry and moan about it, I move on.
You have your opinion and I have mine.
 
Utah said:
I have plenty of splints and slings in case you break your arm patting yourself on the back.
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The point is that Jesus said His people would be persecuted verbally and physically. For all who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. If you believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine, then one is suffering for wrong doing because they are giving people a license to sin (Regardless if you tell them that they should generally live a holy life). For to say that one can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved is to condone evil. Yet... Peter says, "For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing." (Welll, that is if you believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine).
 
3Scoreand10 said:
You did what I expected you to do.
You deny that you offended me. In my mind , You did.
But I do not cry and moan about it, I move on.
You have your opinion and I have mine.
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Tell me how your belief is moral and good. How does your belief uphold God's goodness if it allows for sin? Is not sin bad? Should you not be against sin? That is what I am preaching against. For if you are for the goodness of God (and I hope you are), then we would not be having this argument (I guarantee you). Most folks you have sided to join with here have already voted that they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved. The cat is out of the bag. One can condone evil and be in God's good graces. Yes, most here will say that we are to live holy and strive to do what is right, but then they double talk and say that they can never stop sinning and that they can even be saved while they commit certain sins that are serious (like lying, murder, hate, adultery, stealing, and drunkenness, etc.). Sin is serious and put Christ on the cross. We should never think God's grace covers any willful present or future rebellion (Whereby the believer does not confess and forsake their sin). My attack here is not on you. My attack here is on the wrong belief or the sin of such a belief that allows for evil.
 
Jason0047 said:
The point is that Jesus said His people would be persecuted verbally and physically. For all who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. If you believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine, then one is suffering for wrong doing because they are giving people a license to sin (Regardless if you tell them that they should generally live a holy life). For to say that one can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved is to condone evil. Yet... Peter says, "For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing." (Welll, that is if you believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine).
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So if I believe in OSAS and I suffer persecution it is because I am evil?
How arrogant!
Just like the Pharisee.
 
Also, the point of showing how folks verbally persecute me (and others here who stand up for God's righteous ways in the Bible) is actually a Biblical teaching you can read for yourself. Our conversation is supposed to be full of grace seasoned with salt (As the Scriptures say).
 
Jason0047 said:
Tell me how your belief is moral and good. How does your belief uphold God's goodness if it allows for sin? Is not sin bad? Should you not be against sin? That is what I am preaching against. For if you are for the goodness of God (and I hope you are), then we would not be having this argument (I guarantee you). Most folks you have sided to join with here have already voted that they can die in unrepentant sin and still be saved. The cat is out of the bag. One can condone evil and be in God's good graces. Yes, most here will say that we are to live holy and strive to do what is right, but then they double talk and say that they can never stop sinning and that they can even be saved while they commit certain sins that are serious (like lying, murder, hate, adultery, stealing, and drunkenness, etc.). Sin is serious and put Christ on the cross. We should never think God's grace covers any willful present or future rebellion (Whereby the believer does not confess and forsake their sin). My attack here is not on you. My attack here is on the wrong belief or the sin of such a belief that allows for evil.
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Jason, what you teach is evil heresy.
There now, I have attacked you.
 
3Scoreand10 said:
So if I believe in OSAS and I suffer persecution it is because I am evil?
How arrogant!
Just like the Pharisee.
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Please be careful to understand what I am saying here. I said.... if one believes in sin and still be saved doctrine. For such a doctrine allows for one to do evil and be saved. A sin and still be saved doctrine can be different sometimes in regards to OSAS in some cases. For not all OSAS is a like. I realize that. I know someone personally who believes in OSAS but they do not condone a believer to live in any kind of sin (with the thinking they are saved). They hold to the view that a believer will always confess and forsake sin (And if they don't, then they were never born again to begin with). Granted, I do not hold to that view; And he is a dear friend (Because he does not make for an allowance for evil in his life --- i.e. the thinking that he can do some kind of really bad thing and be saved while doing it).
 
3Scoreand10 said:
Jason, what you teach is evil heresy.
There now, I have attacked you.
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Well, first, your statement here is not Biblical. You need to correct with the Word of God and not with some blind accusation. For...

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16).

Second, you just admitted to attacking me like it is okay. Believers are not supposed to attack each other like they are a pack of wild animals. We are to love one another. That is the Christian way; And it is the way of Christ.

 
Jason0047 said:
Please be careful to understand what I am saying here. I said.... if one believes in sin and still be saved doctrine. For such a doctrine allows for one to do evil and be saved. A sin and still be saved doctrine can be different sometimes in regards to OSAS in some cases. For not all OSAS is a like. I realize that. I know someone personally who believes in OSAS but they do not condone a believer to live in any kind of sin (with the thinking they are saved). They hold to the view that a believer will always confess and forsake sin (And if they don't, then they were never born again to begin with). Granted, I do not hold to that view; And he is a dear friend (Because he does not make for an allowance for evil in his life --- i.e. the thinking that he can do some kind of really bad thing and be saved while doing it).
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That is not what you said in post 351.
Have you ever in your life admitted a mistake, or do you always say that it not what you said, when it is in black and white in post 351.
 
Jason0047 said:
I have been attacked and I did not seek to set out to attack any one particular person. I set out to attack the belief or the wrong doctrine. Yet, people make it personal. Why? Because Jesus said that this would happen. Bless them that persecute and speak all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake.
Utah said:
I'm trying to be respectful, honestly, especially after Ken shared his pictures -- they touched my heart, but I'm not going to let anyone get away with nauseating, self righteous comments like this:
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First, do you really want me to go thru this thread and point out people's inappropriate behavior? Do you really need me to show you that? Why do you think it does not exist? Do you need proof?

Second, do you believe I have set out to attack people on an individual basis here personally? If so, where did I do so? Please take note that this does not apply if somene has already judged me and I am pointing out their wrong behavior (towards me).

Third, it must also be taken into consideration that I do not call people names or slander them, either.
 
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3Scoreand10 said:
That is not what you said in post 351.
Have you ever in your life admitted a mistake, or do you always say that it not what you said, when it is in black and white in post 351.
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Please take note: I said IF... IF you believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine then it is wrong and evil. Just as murdering is wrong and evil. I mean, just me saying.... "sin and still be saved" should give a person a red flashing warning light (with alarms going off) ..... as if something was not right. For it goes against common basic morality. Do evil and yet still be good? (Well, that is.... like I said.... if you believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine). If you do not believe in a sin and still be saved doctrine, then this message does not apply to you.
 
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