When does the rapture occur?

[KennethC]

Then what happened at Jesus' resurrection,when the patriarchs were raised from the dead ?

What was that?

How can you guys nit pick a 7th trumpet into oblivion,but wink at a first resurrection????

I just blew a hole in postrib a ship could sail through,and you just watch,no postrib will bite on it.

That was not the 1st Resurrection so once again you are reaching again.
Apostle John was not shown the revelation of the 1st Resurrection tell years later after he had already been exiled on Patmos, so you trying to make that part of the 1st Resurrection is once again out of context and placing a scripture that does not apply to the rapture or resurrection.

Also you still want to deny how Apostle Paul clearly says that the falling away and the man of sin is revealed before our gathering together with the Lord takes place.

You have only blown a hole in a post-trib in your own mind, and not by biblical truth as you continue to reach.

Notice how in Matthew 27:51-53 says the bodies of those who have fallen asleep were raised and went into the holy city of Jerusalem. It does not say they were raised in the air and transformed into their spiritual eternal bodies, as this is a mass example of what the Lord did with Lazarus...

 

[popeye]

I don't remember any of those you mentioned, being flown away. That is the heart of this heresy, that you will fly away from danger

Oh wait,never mind.
I get it.
You need the debate to go outside the word.

Sorry,not interested.

 

[popeye]

That was not the 1st Resurrection so once again you are reaching again.
Apostle John was not shown the revelation of the 1st Resurrection tell years later after he had already been exiled on Patmos, so you trying to make that part of the 1st Resurrection is once again out of context and placing a scripture that does not apply to the rapture or resurrection.

Also you still want to deny how Apostle Paul clearly says that the falling away and the man of sin is revealed before our gathering together with the Lord takes place.

You have only blown a hole in a post-trib in your own mind, and not by biblical truth as you continue to reach.

Notice how in Matthew 27:51-53 says the bodies of those who have fallen asleep were raised and went into the holy city of Jerusalem. It does not say they were raised in the air and transformed into their spiritual eternal bodies, as this is a mass example of what the Lord did with Lazarus...

You have only blown a hole in a post-trib in your own mind, and not by biblical truth as you continue to reach.

Nope.
I need none of that to defend pretrib.

1st resurrection is you guys brainchild. I only show,with my bible your rabbit trail invention,along with the uturn invention.

You will never,ever see me go there to express my position. I Only go there to that mental made up postrib playground to address it's own baseless non issues.

 

[KennethC]

BTW,the 144k IN HEAVEN is completely un answerable by the postrib doctrine.

How did they get there???? Martyred??? Raptured????

Watch this.......IT FITS PRETRIB W/NO PROBLEM.....as does the 1st resurrection,Gods deliverance pattern,the 4 parts to gathering (harvest/rapture) ,the time of the gentiles completed,the church in heaven during the gt,and the bride/groom dimension.

Postrib is basically indefensible,(apart from a cunning creative mind of a humanoid.

First of all the 144,000 are not in heaven before the tribulation begins, as Revelation 7 shows the 144,000 are sealed during the tribulation and not raptured. Then the great multitude that follows clearly shows they came from the great tribulation period, and these could only be those who were killed by the man of sin for keeping the faith and testimony of Jesus Christ.

The bible says nothing of catching up people before this time, as it clearly shows Jews and Christians being persecuted and killed during the great tribulation. You still have an issue with this because if all believers are caught up before the tribulation, then there would be no Christians for the man of sin to kill and you have Paul's statement become false that the man of sin is revealed before any gathering takes place.

 

[popeye]

Also you still want to deny how Apostle Paul clearly says that the falling away and the man of sin is revealed before our gathering together with the Lord takes place.

Again,one of many non issues.

Play it out.

The a/c is revealed for a week,then the PRETRIB rapture.

You have no case on any of your items. No case at all.

 

[popeye]

First of all the 144,000 are not in heaven before the tribulation begins, as Revelation 7 shows the 144,000 are sealed during the tribulation and not raptured. Then the great multitude that follows clearly shows they came from the great tribulation period, and these could only be those who were killed by the man of sin for keeping the faith and testimony of Jesus Christ.

The bible says nothing of catching up people before this time, as it clearly shows Jews and Christians being persecuted and killed during the great tribulation. You still have an issue with this because if all believers are caught up before the tribulation, then there would be no Christians for the man of sin to kill and you have Paul's statement become false that the man of sin is revealed before any gathering takes place.

They are placed in heaven during the GT.

Look it up. It is only a secret to postribs.

Hint;
put "sickle" in the search block and get a bonus "gathering " of the remnant jews by none other than jesus.

 

[KennethC]

Nope.
I need none of that to defend pretrib.

1st resurrection is you guys brainchild. I only show,with my bible your rabbit trail invention,along with the uturn invention.

You will never,ever see me go there to express my position. I Only go there to that mental made up postrib playground to address it's own baseless non issues.

I have seen you do nothing but pull scriptures out of context that do not apply to the rapture, or a timing of it for that matter.
For every scripture you have given so far I have show how it has been misapplied and does not defend your stance.

I use to be a pre-trib rapture believer tell I took 3 years and studied the issue and saw it does not fit scripture.....

 

[KennethC]

They are placed in heaven during the GT.

Look it up. It is only a secret to postribs.

Any of the ones that come out of the GT are killed, not raptured unless it is done at the end of the GT when the Lord returns.
Once again disproving a pre-trib rapture !!!

 

[popeye]

I have seen you do nothing but pull scriptures out of context that do not apply to the rapture, or a timing of it for that matter.
For every scripture you have given so far I have show how it has been misapplied and does not defend your stance.

I use to be a pre-trib rapture believer tell I took 3 years and studied the issue and saw it does not fit scripture.....

Prove it.
Show me just one.

I will wait. just one.

 

[popeye]

Any of the ones that come out of the GT are killed, not raptured unless it is done at the end of the GT when the Lord returns.
Once again disproving a pre-trib rapture !!!

Once again you have no verse since you refuse to reference those verses.Wow,you are not even willing to look it up.

I could get rich off you if I were a betting man.

 

[KennethC]

Again,one of many non issues.

Play it out.

The a/c is revealed for a week,then the PRETRIB rapture.

You have no case on any of your items. No case at all.

You have no case because the man of sin is not revealed tell the midpoint of the 7 year tribulation, and not a week before the tribulation starts.

Even if you are trying to say before the GT period starts (final 3 1/2 years) then you still have an issue as that would be a mid-trib rapture and still not pre-trib.

For the man of sin is revealed when he stands in the temple claiming to be God, and this is the A.O.D. that is referred to by Jesus and Daniel. This takes place in the middle when he breaks the covenant to start the final 7 years !!!

 

[KennethC]

Once again you have no verse since you refuse to reference those verses.Wow,you are not even willing to look it up.

I could get rich off you if I were a betting man.

False as I have given plenty of scriptures to back the stance I support from the bible, and I have looked up these passages because I have done an indepth study on this. So your response is off basis and completely not true, and you still refuse to take in Apostle Paul's clear words and say they are non issues.

It is clearly as the rapture is our gathering together to be with the Lord, and Paul clearly says this will not take place tell the falling away "and" the man of sin revealed. Who will reveal himself by standing in the temple claiming to be God at the mid point of the tribulation...

 

[popeye]

I have seen you do nothing but pull scriptures out of context that do not apply to the rapture, or a timing of it for that matter.
For every scripture you have given so far I have show how it has been misapplied and does not defend your stance.

I use to be a pre-trib rapture believer tell I took 3 years and studied the issue and saw it does not fit scripture.....

So,now you are way ahead of the debate since you are so learned and versed in the word huh?

Show us mat 25 (10 virgins) and how it fits a postrib rapture,and mat 24 how lot and noah fit this post wrath deliverance.

 

[mwc68]

First of all the 144,000 are not in heaven before the tribulation begins, as Revelation 7 shows the 144,000 are sealed during the tribulation and not raptured. Then the great multitude that follows clearly shows they came from the great tribulation period, and these could only be those who were killed by the man of sin for keeping the faith and testimony of Jesus Christ.

The bible says nothing of catching up people before this time, as it clearly shows Jews and Christians being persecuted and killed during the great tribulation. You still have an issue with this because if all believers are caught up before the tribulation, then there would be no Christians for the man of sin to kill and you have Paul's statement become false that the man of sin is revealed before any gathering takes place.

I have often thought about this. If the Great Tribulation is about the killing of Christians, then rapture makes no sense. Oh wow, i can't believe who I just agreed with!!!! LOL God is great!!!!!

 

[KennethC]

Prove it.
Show me just one.

I will wait. just one.

Show just one ???

I can show you 4 you have misused to try and prove a pre-trib rapture theory;
You have used Revelation 20, Titus 2, the 144,000 in Revelation 7 and 14, and the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25.
Not one of those proves a timing of when the rapture takes place, and half of them does not even deal with the rapture event.

 

[popeye]

False as I have given plenty of scriptures to back the stance I support from the bible, and I have looked up these passages because I have done an indepth study on this. So your response is off basis and completely not true, and you still refuse to take in Apostle Paul's clear words and say they are non issues.

It is clearly as the rapture is our gathering together to be with the Lord, and Paul clearly says this will not take place tell the falling away "and" the man of sin revealed. Who will reveal himself by standing in the temple claiming to be God at the mid point of the tribulation...

Nope, what I am saying is that YOU say "the man of sin revealed" HAS to happen in CONJUNCTIONN with your doctrine.

I say,he can be revealed,then we are raptured PRETRIB.

There ain't anyone with a stopwatch defining your or my position.

Again,play it out.
The a/c is revealed and then an immediate rapture,and your smoking gun is laying in the bottom of the pool.

 

[KennethC]

So,now you are way ahead of the debate since you are so learned and versed in the word huh?

Show us mat 25 (10 virgins) and how it fits a postrib rapture,and mat 24 how lot and noah fit this post wrath deliverance.

Neither of them give a timing of a rapture event so they don't even defend your pre-trib either as they can not be used to determine a timing. You have to take other scriptures into account to do this, which you continue to want to ignore even though I have given some of them to you.

 

[popeye]

Show just one ???

I can show you 4 you have misused to try and prove a pre-trib rapture theory;
You have used Revelation 20, Titus 2, the 144,000 in Revelation 7 and 14, and the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25.
Not one of those proves a timing of when the rapture takes place, and half of them does not even deal with the rapture event.

I read all those just fine
What are you looking for?

You do not listen at all do you?

I said ,show me ONE verse out of context/twisted or whatever. And then how you so correctly interpret it.

 

[popeye]

Neither of them give a timing of a rapture event so they don't even defend your pre-trib either as they can not be used to determine a timing. You have to take other scriptures into account to do this, which you continue to want to ignore even though I have given some of them to you.

OK,you have officially failed to defend your doctrine.

 

[KennethC]

I have often thought about this. If the Great Tribulation is about the killing of Christians, then rapture makes no sense. Oh wow, i can't believe who I just agreed with!!!! LOL God is great!!!!!

Hey I have never tried to give you God's word in a hateful way.
I know you may have taken it that way do to how others were speaking to you in the Catholic thread, but I am not one of them that was trying to give the truth with love behind it.

The bible shows very clearly that not only Jews but Christians as well are persecuted and killed during the GT, and that Jesus clearly says because the world persecuted Him we also will face the worlds persecution.

The issue that people still have with this teaching is they think we are more special then other believers and will escape the coming persecution from this evil world. When God's word says we are only not appointed to face God's wrath, which that comes in the vial judgments at the end of the GT.

I still see a rapture event but it is the 1st Resurrection that takes place at Jesus second coming, so that God's wrath can be poured out on the rest and not on believers in Him.