The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists

[eternally-gratefull]

I know the truth as the Holy Spirit guides me, which is why I do not deny the many scriptures that speak on those who will eventually depart, fall away, and leave the faith in Christ to go back to a sinful lifestyle..........


Once again here are passages from the bible that says what believers cans and will still do:



1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14

Yep. Lets make the bible contradict itself.

Let make God not so omniscient

Lets make God a God who makes mistakes.

You do not know god or the word my friend, nor do you have faih in God. your faith is in yourself. and your ability not to do those things you claim one can do to lose salvation.

in other words. your puffing yourself up above others who do nto do those things (ie phariseeism)

 

[Magenta]

I know the truth as the Holy Spirit guides me, which is why I do not deny the many scriptures that speak on those who will eventually depart, fall away, and leave the faith in Christ to go back to a sinful lifestyle..........

Once again here are passages from the bible that says what believers cans and will still do:

1. Fall from grace - Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error - 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth - James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish - 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation - James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope - Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them - 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God - Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway - 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children - 2 Pet. 2:14

Father God I lift up my brothers and sisters in Christ, all of us here and elsewhere who have accepted the gift of Your amazing Grace, every child of God I lift up to You in prayer and supplication, God, keep us close and do not allow us to stray from the embrace of Your love, let us not fall into 1-10 as listed above, in Jesus' name I pray, amen.

 

[Willie-T]

Where do you get your information from ???

The Pharisees corrupted the law of God and added more stumbling blocks to it, and would not lift a finger to help others out. Only a few of the Pharisees such as Nicodemus and Paul actually seeked out the truth from the Lord or where called by Him to do His will.

The rest where clearly told by the Lord that they were hypocrites, vipers, and white washed tombs that prostitutes had a better chance to make it to heaven before they would.

I see this come up all the time of people being taught the Pharisees did everything right, but that is completely unbiblical !!!

Why do you think Jesus used the example of these VERY precisely religious devout guys when He said that our "righteousness" would have to surpass that of the Pharisees?

Because they DID very carefully keep the LETTER of all the law....... outwardly. (This was the beautiful stinging sarcasm of our Lord that I love so much.) and the average man who had to work for a living couldn't even HOPE to match their appearance of "righteousness." And, thus HAD to come to depend solely upon Jesus.

 

[KennethC]

You do not study history much do you.

In Jesus day, The pharisee was seen as the most righteous person on earth according to the law. Most pharaisees people could not name a sin they commited, because they were done in secret.

I know many people today who live the same lives, they look clean on the outside, but are dirty on the inside (as Jesus said they were. )

They were seen righteous in their own eyes and by those who were fooled to believe in their teachings, but our Lord Jesus exposed their heresies and lies.

They did not do everything right as Willie-T stated it, which is why I said what I did because they corrupted the law and added to it causing others to stumble and would not help them out. If they were so perfect in what they did then Jesus would not have constantly called them out as He did for their heresies !!!

 

[Gr8grace]

Yep. Lets make the bible contradict itself.

Let make God not so omniscient

Lets make God a God who makes mistakes.

You do not know god or the word my friend, nor do you have faih in God. your faith is in yourself. and your ability not to do those things you claim one can do to lose salvation.

in other words. your puffing yourself up above others who do nto do those things (ie phariseeism)

A believer who falls for false teaching and believes he can lose His salvation. Fits that list to a tee.

they have fallen from grace.

they have believed err.

They don't have biblical hope(assurance)

They think it is possible to be condemned.

They deny the Lord who BOUGHT them.

They think they can be cast away.........which makes them a cast away.

Loss of salvation believers fit that list to a TEE!

 

[KennethC]

Why do you think Jesus used the example of these VERY precisely religious devout guys when He said that our "righteousness" would have to surpass that of the Pharisees?

Because they DID very carefully keep the LETTER of all the law....... outwardly. (This was the beautiful stinging sarcasm of our Lord that I love o much.) and the average man who had to work for a living couldn't even HOPE to match their appearance of "righteousness." And, thus HAD to come to depend solely upon Jesus.

No, Jesus said our righteousness has to exceed theirs because theirs was self-righteousness !!!

They did not keep the letter of the law completely, and even in Acts 15 it shows there that nobody kept the entire law for it was impossible to do for a person. They made themselves look good to others, but secretly they added to the word of God and did not show love and mercy as the law commanded.

Lord Jesus called them out for ignoring the more important points of the law:

Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


They could not have followed the law perfectly as has falsely been taught if they clearly omitted (did not do) parts of it as the Lord Jesus clearly says here they did !!!

 

[MatthiasProctor]

If you follow Jesus Christ you do NOT SIN. You OBEY Him and SIN NO MORE. If you SIN you will BURN. Christians who sin will also BURN if they do not REPENT and LIVE HOLY.

(Originally posted by Jan, "Justice" Boshoff, aka, FinalCall07.

 

[Willie-T]

Ken,
Are you even aware of who the Pharisees were, and why they came into being? No, they were not Holy men as we tend to think they were.

They were powerful, political, elite socialites who honestly felt they were performing a civic duty for the nation of Israel by being the visible faction that God would see keeping all the law when He looked down, and would then bless the entire nation because of their Law Keeping. (rain, crops, livestock, fertility, etc.)

It was super important to them to appear to always be keeping the Law.

 

[Magenta]

A believer who falls for false teaching and believes he can lose His salvation. Fits that list to a tee.
they have fallen from grace.
they have believed err.
They don't have biblical hope(assurance)
They think it is possible to be condemned.
They deny the Lord who BOUGHT them.
They think they can be cast away.........which makes them a cast away.
Loss of salvation believers fit that list to a TEE!

I have just come from spending three sporadic years on a Christian site speaking with atheists, agnostics, and secular humanists, some of whom identified themselves as being former Christians, people who felt they'd had deeply held beliefs, and were born again, did decades of service to our Lord, etc etc... and then fell away with bitterness, renouncing their former beliefs. Protect us from ourselves, oh, God, and keep us close.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They were seen righteous in their own eyes and by those who were fooled to believe in their teachings, but our Lord Jesus exposed their heresies and lies.

Yep. just like you, Jason and those like you.

You think your righteous in your own eyes, but God will expose how truly sinful you realy are. if not in this lifetime, certainly at judgment day.

They did not do everything right as Willie-T stated it, which is why I said what I did because they corrupted the law and added to it causing others to stumble and would not help them out. If they were so perfect in what they did then Jesus would not have constantly called them out as He did for their heresies !!!

All legalists do this, You should know that. Yet still. Jesus said unless our righteousness exceeded theirs, we are doomed. so even he even acknowledged when it comes to the law. they are better law keepers than anyone else.

 

[KennethC]

Yep. Lets make the bible contradict itself.

Let make God not so omniscient

Lets make God a God who makes mistakes.

You do not know god or the word my friend, nor do you have faih in God. your faith is in yourself. and your ability not to do those things you claim one can do to lose salvation.

in other words. your puffing yourself up above others who do nto do those things (ie phariseeism)

It is only contradictory in your mind, as the whole word of God does not contradict as the Holy Spirit has guided me in His truth.

Let me give you another from Apostle Peter who shows that we are to add to our faith, and by doing so we will never stumble and then an entrance will be supplied to us in the everlasting kingdom. You can not pull scriptures out of the bible and make them stand alone or wrong context will always be done.

[h=1]2 Peter 1:5-11[/h]5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Father God I lift up my brothers and sisters in Christ, all of us here and elsewhere who have accepted the gift of Your amazing Grace, every child of God I lift up to You in prayer and supplication, God, keep us close and do not allow us to stray from the embrace of Your love, let us not fall into 1-10 as listed above, in Jesus' name I pray, amen.

Yes those scriptures like to be rejected by those who are in the doctrines started by Augustine and Calvin, as both deny that falling away from the faith and even teaches apostasy is impossible. But both are clearly taught in the Word of God !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No, Jesus said our righteousness has to exceed theirs because theirs was self-righteousness !!!

He did, where did he say this> I did not see the word SELF in that passage.

They did not keep the letter of the law completely,

No one has said they did. where do you get this stuff from?

 

[KennethC]

Yep. just like you, Jason and those like you.

You think your righteous in your own eyes, but God will expose how truly sinful you realy are. if not in this lifetime, certainly at judgment day.



All legalists do this, You should know that. Yet still. Jesus said unless our righteousness exceeded theirs, we are doomed. so even he even acknowledged when it comes to the law. they are better law keepers than anyone else.

There you go with you baseless false allegations again !!!

I thought I could take you off of ignore and have a respectful debate with you, but once again I was wrong because you can not stop your bearing of false witness on those who disagree with you.

Done talking to you !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is only contradictory in your mind, as the whole word of God does not contradict as the Holy Spirit has guided me in His truth.

Dude, you think an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent God saves people and gives them a free gift he calls eternal life. then later has to take it back, because he either did not know they would fall back into sin, or fall away from faith. or he thought they would stay in faith, but they did not do what he thought they would do.

You did not get your belief from God. You make God human.

Yes those scriptures like to be rejected by those who are in the doctrines started by Augustine and Calvin, as both deny that falling away from the faith and even teaches apostasy is impossible. But both are clearly taught in the Word of God !!!

lol.. I do not listen to men, I listen to God.

God said he HAS PERFECTED FOREVER those who are BEING SANCTIFIED

so you have a few choices.

1. The author of hebrews did not know what he was talking about (they are not perfected forever, for they can fall away)
2. The book of hebrews should not be in scripture. because it contradicts the rest of scripture.
3. The author of Hebrews, spoke as inspired by God those words, and God has actually perfected forever (forever means forever) those who are being grown in Christ. and no one can lose salvation.

and that is just one passage of one book.. there are so many more which say the same thing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There you go with you baseless false allegations again !!!

I thought I could take you off of ignore and have a respectful debate with you, but once again I was wrong because you can not stop your bearing of false witness on those who disagree with you.

Done talking to you !!!

ie, the truth hurts.

 

[KennethC]

Ken,
Are you even aware of who the Pharisees were, and why they came into being? No, they were not Holy men as we tend to think they were.

They were powerful, political, elite socialites who honestly felt they were performing a civic duty for the nation of Israel by being the visible faction that God would see keeping all the law when He looked down, and would then bless the entire nation because of their Law Keeping. (rain, crops, livestock, fertility, etc.)

It was super important to them to appear to always be keeping the Law.

The Pharisees were the religious sect that were the keepers and givers of the law, but they themselves did not keep it perfectly as Jesus Himself pointed out. Or do you deny what Jesus said when He told them they did not follow parts of the law???

If they kept it perfectly as you have said then the Lord Jesus would not have called them hypocrites, vipers, and white washed tombs who forced others to obey the Mosaic laws that they themselves did not keep. They gave the word in a condemning tone, and did not follow the other parts of the law.

The Pharisees did things to be seen by others to get self recognition, and for self financial gain. In other words they did what they did for self and not for the love of God, which is why you can easily see they where self-righteous by the scriptures. Anybody who rejects that they were self-righteous needs to study and read the scriptures closer !!!

 

[KennethC]

Bearing false witness on others is called works of the flesh !!!

That kind of attitude and treatment of others is not called for and the bible clearly speaks against doing that to others...........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Bearing false witness on others is called works of the flesh !!!

That kind of attitude and treatment of others is not called for and the bible clearly speaks against doing that to others...........

yet telling the truth still hurts. No matter how you call it bearing false witness.

A person who claims salvation can be lost. has to act, or appear more righteous than others. Thats what the pharisees did, and thats what jason does. and other like him.

I grew up around those people. And I was actually one of them myself.

so you see. I am not just saying it to say it. Or to judge anyone (it is not my place to judge, it is Gods)

I say it from experience. I say it so people like you can be freed like I was.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Bearing false witness on others is called works of the flesh !!!

bearing false witness would actual be breaking on the the ten commandments of God. which would be a sin.

 

[KennethC]

I have just come from spending three sporadic years on a Christian site speaking with atheists, agnostics, and secular humanists, some of whom identified themselves as being former Christians, people who felt they'd had deeply held beliefs, and were born again, did decades of service to our Lord, etc etc... and then fell away with bitterness, renouncing their former beliefs. Protect us from ourselves, oh, God, and keep us close.

Yes there are a number like this that after a time of walking in the faith have then fallen away do to different situations, and even the Lord Jesus showed this in the parable of the Sower and the Seed. We also have the teachings that we who are mature/strong in the faith are to help those who are still weak in the faith because they can still fall to those temptations and deceptions and be lead back to perdition (spiritual death).