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E
There are quite a few facets to thus argument when talking about salvation. OSAS, baptism, good works..ect ect. But when it truly comes down to it there is only, and only, one way to salvation. That one true way is through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. There is only one name by which a man may be saved and that name is Jesus!!! Only by Jesus can we be saved. It doesn't matter our view on OSAS or baptism or works as long as Jesus is first and foremost our life. If we put anything before Jesus then we truly need to worry. There are a few Christians I disagree with on this subject but I have no doubt in my mind of their salvation because of their faith in Christ. If Jesus is first in your life then you have no need to worry about your belief on this subject. If you disagree with me but have given your life to Christ then we will meet in heaven and say together "Jesus is Lord"!!! I actually have a few friends on here who disagree with me on this subject but I cannot wait to see them in heaven and sing "Glory to God in the highest" together. God is such a wonderful Sovereign God that those "petty" little arguments don't mean much too Him if you have full faith in His son for your salvation. By your question of this subject I can see your wanting to please God so please understand that it is your faith in Christ that saves you not your beliefs in "little" theological questions. Stay on the straight and narrow path and you are good. If you want to grab someone's hand to guide you and to be honest "Angela" would be a great hand for you to hold on too. Angela and u may not agree on everything but I would trust my kids hands in hers just as much as I would trust their hands in my dads. Angela would be a most wonderful mentor for you. We are actually called to have a mentor to help along the path we should follow. . I will encourage you to talk with her and pick her brain as she is also my "go too" person for questions and encouragement.
U
So in other words you have zero scripture to support this concept. It is something entirely made up that you based the idea of off of a personal (yet incorrect) interpretation of repentance.
Nowhere in scripture, even discussing repentance, is the concept of being born again twice come up. Did Christ also have to be crucified twice to cover both of your salvations? No? Why not?
Sorry if this sounds snotty. Not meaning it to. (=
Nowhere in scripture, even discussing repentance, is the concept of being born again twice come up. Did Christ also have to be crucified twice to cover both of your salvations? No? Why not?
Sorry if this sounds snotty. Not meaning it to. (=
I knew when I was born again because I finally understood what God's plan is and stopped questioning why He did things the way He did and accepted that He is the one in control of all things. I gave my life to him completely.
Reading the bible has helped me understand more things that I ever thought I knew and took on a new perspective as a believer.
I fail the Lord still to this day although I know He knows my heart and the main thing I know is that He loves me unconditionally. I am saved, I wasn't before because God started working through me more after the point of being saved. You know, because He speaks to you and He always answers you in good time.
Reading the bible has helped me understand more things that I ever thought I knew and took on a new perspective as a believer.
I fail the Lord still to this day although I know He knows my heart and the main thing I know is that He loves me unconditionally. I am saved, I wasn't before because God started working through me more after the point of being saved. You know, because He speaks to you and He always answers you in good time.
Did you receive the Holy Spirit since you believed?
Acts 19:1-6
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 19:1-6
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
It will be said that those that were called Christians and became atheist or agnostic were never really saved and like the bible says"that's why they left so we would know that they were never of us.And also everyone that has this hope in them seeks to purify themselves.
There are good scriptures proving both sides.
I think the only way it can be proven correct or error(OSAS) is to be able to interpret a scripture that is for OSAS and interpret a scripture that is against OSAS and make the scriptures harmonize proving OSAS to be correct or in error.
Because we all know that scripture should interpret scripture.
Other wise we will be just debating and people will just give opinionated interpretation without scripture harmonization.
There are good scriptures proving both sides.
I think the only way it can be proven correct or error(OSAS) is to be able to interpret a scripture that is for OSAS and interpret a scripture that is against OSAS and make the scriptures harmonize proving OSAS to be correct or in error.
Because we all know that scripture should interpret scripture.
Other wise we will be just debating and people will just give opinionated interpretation without scripture harmonization.
Isaiah 45:9-12
9“Woe to him who strives with him who formed him,
a pot among earthen pots!
Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’
or ‘Your work has no handles’?
10Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’
or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’”
11Thus says the Lord,
the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him:
“Ask me of things to come;
will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands?[SUP]b[/SUP]
12I made the earth
and created man on it;
it was my hands that stretched out the heavens,
and I commanded all their host.
Romans 9:14-23
14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[SUP]b[/SUP] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
9“Woe to him who strives with him who formed him,
a pot among earthen pots!
Does the clay say to him who forms it, ‘What are you making?’
or ‘Your work has no handles’?
10Woe to him who says to a father, ‘What are you begetting?’
or to a woman, ‘With what are you in labor?’”
11Thus says the Lord,
the Holy One of Israel, and the one who formed him:
“Ask me of things to come;
will you command me concerning my children and the work of my hands?[SUP]b[/SUP]
12I made the earth
and created man on it;
it was my hands that stretched out the heavens,
and I commanded all their host.
Romans 9:14-23
14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[SUP]b[/SUP] but on God, who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
K
The scriptures are very clear on this subject and do not contradict when they are taken in proper context.
A person who accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior and continues to keep the faith through life facing the trials and tribulations that come to all of us. Then they do fall under the category of once saved always saved for they never fell away from the faith in Christ.
However the key in those passages from Paul is "continue in the faith," for Apostle Paul also gives us the other side of the equation for those who do not continue in the faith and that outcome is not eternal life.
Apostle Paul said more then once to those who departed/fell away from the faith that Christ has become of no effect (no remission of sins) and they have fallen from grace. Both of those are needed to receive eternal life, and two of the other Apostles John and James show this as well. (1 John 2-4, James 5:19-20)
The main issue with this is some churches have been teaching their congregation to separate the walk in the faith from faith itself for salvation. The problem is the bible multiple times shows that how one walks determines if they are saved or not, as the fruits of the Spirit will be evident in our actions.
The bible from Jesus to Revelation speaks on these fruits/actions and says that those who these fruits are not produced in will be cut off and burned. The bible does support both stances, but the once saved always saved is only supported by those who continue in the faith without falling away from it.
You have really answered your own question. You rightly accept that Christ promises to be a faithful and true Saviour to those who are His. e.g. John 6.37-44; 10.27-29; Rom 8.29-30; 1 Cot 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 1.16; Jude 24).
Thus whatever else is written we must not doubt that Christ will fulfil His promises. Thus it is clear that exhortations are part of the means by which Christ fulfils His promises.
Your personal experience simply underlines the faithfulness of Christ. It is not in your remit to tell God when you were born from above. Only God knows that. If your interpretation of Scripture does not tie in with God's promises then it is your interpretation which is wrong.
Incidentally salvation is only 'yours' in the sense that you are the recipient. Salvation is of the LORD. It is not yours to lose.
Thus whatever else is written we must not doubt that Christ will fulfil His promises. Thus it is clear that exhortations are part of the means by which Christ fulfils His promises.
Your personal experience simply underlines the faithfulness of Christ. It is not in your remit to tell God when you were born from above. Only God knows that. If your interpretation of Scripture does not tie in with God's promises then it is your interpretation which is wrong.
Incidentally salvation is only 'yours' in the sense that you are the recipient. Salvation is of the LORD. It is not yours to lose.
Hello petester. Are you not a self-proclaimed sinner? Do you not err to compare your insides with the outsides of others? Please, also excuse my curiosity here, but I am wondering how it is you think that the author and giver of life has ruined yours. Have you allowed circumstance to overcome your joy in the Lord? Have you learned how to take personal responsibility in your life, or do you live in blame and self pity? Are you grateful for all the Lord has given you? Do you engage in daily prayer and meditation to seek His will and purpose for your life in your changed circumstances? Have you turned your will and your life over to Jesus Christ? Do you believe that all things work for the good of those who love God?
Short answer:
There is counterfeit faith (Mt 7:22-23), and there is true faith of the born again.
Counterfeit faith eventually apostasizes permanently, true faith preserveres.
The Scriptures used to show loss of salvation actually apply to counterfeit faith, which does not save.
The Scriptures showing the security of salvation refer to true faith of the born again.
The issue is true faith vs. counterfeit, not security of salvation vs. loss of salvation.
There is no loss of salvation. God keeps his own.
There is counterfeit faith (Mt 7:22-23), and there is true faith of the born again.
Counterfeit faith eventually apostasizes permanently, true faith preserveres.
The Scriptures used to show loss of salvation actually apply to counterfeit faith, which does not save.
The Scriptures showing the security of salvation refer to true faith of the born again.
The issue is true faith vs. counterfeit, not security of salvation vs. loss of salvation.
There is no loss of salvation. God keeps his own.
D
The number one reason you cannot lose your Salvation is because [SUP]23[/SUP] "all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23) If you could lose your Salvation then everybody is going to lose their Salvation because everybody is a sinner and makes mistakes and wrong decisions in life.
What happens when you get saved is that Jesus cleanses you from all your sins and takes them all away. Jesus died for your sins and took your punishment for you so that you wouldn't have to. Jesus is, "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
Jesus said."[SUP]2[/SUP] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.[SUP]23[/SUP] But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
This is an extraordinary saying if you stop to think about it. It goes completely against mans human nature and carnal reasoning. What Jesus is saying here is that you are either 100% full of light or you are 100% full of darkness and evilness. There's no in between. There's no such thing as being partly good and partly evil. You're either all good or all evil. There's only one way to be 100% full of light.
In him (Jesus) was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Once you have Jesus you are saved and full of light, forever. End of matter.
What happens when you get saved is that Jesus cleanses you from all your sins and takes them all away. Jesus died for your sins and took your punishment for you so that you wouldn't have to. Jesus is, "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."
Jesus said."[SUP]2[/SUP] The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.[SUP]23[/SUP] But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
This is an extraordinary saying if you stop to think about it. It goes completely against mans human nature and carnal reasoning. What Jesus is saying here is that you are either 100% full of light or you are 100% full of darkness and evilness. There's no in between. There's no such thing as being partly good and partly evil. You're either all good or all evil. There's only one way to be 100% full of light.
In him (Jesus) was life; and the life was the light of men.
[SUP]5[/SUP] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
Once you have Jesus you are saved and full of light, forever. End of matter.
