If you believe in OSAS, please answer a few questions for me.

[Jason0047]

Nowhere in that story does it say they went to the bathroom, either. But to say that they didn't do so is just silly. One could argue from silence that they didn't do so (But we know by other truths that it is not the case). Seeing you do not believe in the truths on salvation that I mentioned from Scripture, you are naturally going to take a story on it's point of slience and make it a case where none really exists.

I want to add one more thing, too,

To say that Lot being evil also equates with Him righteous in some way in God's eyes is just utter non-sense. You might as well be a Satanist and say you are a good guy while you are at it (If you are to think such a thing). For he that does evil is evil. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Good guys do good.
Bad guys do bad.

It's not complicated.

It's morality 101.

Unless of course you have no moral code (Then I am arguing against a wall).

 

[psalm6819]

Jason, you are always quoting "morality 101" so where exactly is that in the Bible?

My Bible says that Jesus blood cleansed me, Holy Spirit seals me and the Father keeps me.

Is Morality 101 near Leviticus?

 

[elf3]

King David is known as a "man after God's own heart" yet he was constantly falling into sin. He was constantly having to pray to God for forgiveness. So because David sinned so much was he not saved? Or was David a "special case"? Or was this just Old Covenant and does not mean anything to us today?

Paul said in Romans 7:19 "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice". So if Paul admits that he isn't perfect or sinless does that mean he was constantly in and out of God's hands? Or does it mean that because Paul gave his life to Jesus Christ that God watched over him and protected him keeping him in His hands? By your definition Paul will not be in heaven because he did not lead a sinless perfect life by his own admition.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Have we all learned to ignore this person yet?

 

[notuptome]

Did Adam and Eve have fellowship with God? Did they fall from grace? What makes you better than them? Why do you think God is a respecter of persons by treating you more special than them?

Rather than destroy them God reconciled them.

Mercy and grace. Forgiveness in place of condemnation.

We can never escape our need of God. Without Him we perish.

Two thieves on the crosses either side of Jesus. One sought mercy the other sought manipulation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Have we all learned to ignore this person yet?

And what of those who might still receive the truth? Shall we doubt the power of the word of God to accomplish that to which Jehovah God has purposed it?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

Jason, you are always quoting "morality 101" so where exactly is that in the Bible?

My Bible says that Jesus blood cleansed me, Holy Spirit seals me and the Father keeps me.

Is Morality 101 near Leviticus?

Your kidding right? Are you that far gone off the deep end that you do not know right from wrong? Tell me. What is the difference between a child of God and a Satanist? If being righteous is a mere belief alone in Jesus, then how can you can tell the Satanist and the Christian apart?

 

[Jason0047]

Also, what are morals? Are not having morals having a certain code of ethics or righteousness? Do you believe God gave us no Commands on living righteously in the Bible?

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Claiming that I need Christ in my life does not make such a statement true.

That would be true if there was actual evidence of your faith. But you have none. You desperately seek to cling to something you do not actually have through works that are worthless.

What is the real test or way that we can have an assurance of knowing Christ? Read 1 John 2:3. It says he that keeps his commandments knows him; And 1 John 2:4 says that he that says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him. Also, see John 14:23 and John 14:15.

Continually you refuse to put verses in context so you can try to make them say something they do not say. For example, the opening two verses of this passage:

1 John 2, NASB
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

Herein lies the proof of your false belief of "lost salvation." You claim we must be sinless, yet here John speaks quite clearly of the sinning believer having Christ as his Advocate with the Father. That one line utterly destroys an claim you have of a requirement for sinless perfection.

Further, your reference to verse four in this passage, alongside John 14:15, 23, proves even further that you truly do not know Christ. Because in failing to conceive of what His commandments are -- love God, love others -- and instead focusing on what you yourself can do while claiming you do it in His power despite the proof you rely only on yourself, you reveal your ignorance of the true Gospel.

But thank you for answering my questions. When I have time later, I will try and answer in love with Scripture in return.

Don't bother. I have nothing to learn from an unbeliever.

Also, see John 14:23 and John 14:15.May God bless you.
And may His love shine upon you.[/QUOTE]He does, each and every day. I pray someday He does the same for you.

 

[Jason0047]

King David is known as a "man after God's own heart" yet he was constantly falling into sin. He was constantly having to pray to God for forgiveness. So because David sinned so much was he not saved? Or was David a "special case"? Or was this just Old Covenant and does not mean anything to us today?

Paul said in Romans 7:19 "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice". So if Paul admits that he isn't perfect or sinless does that mean he was constantly in and out of God's hands? Or does it mean that because Paul gave his life to Jesus Christ that God watched over him and protected him keeping him in His hands? By your definition Paul will not be in heaven because he did not lead a sinless perfect life by his own admition.

David confessed of his sin of adultery and murder. He did not continue in that life with no remorse or regret afterwards.

As for the bulk of Romans 7: Paul was talking from his perspective as a Jew who kept the Law before he was a Christian. This is obvious by the fact that Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is sold under sin and in Romans 8:2 he says he is free from sin. For at the end of Romans 7 and in Romans 8 he is then talking as a Christian.

 

[notuptome]

Proverbs 1 ¶ He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jason0047]

That would be true if there was actual evidence of your faith. But you have none. You desperately seek to cling to something you do not actually have through works that are worthless.

Continually you refuse to put verses in context so you can try to make them say something they do not say. For example, the opening two verses of this passage:

1 John 2, NASB
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

Herein lies the proof of your false belief of "lost salvation." You claim we must be sinless, yet here John speaks quite clearly of the sinning believer having Christ as his Advocate with the Father. That one line utterly destroys an claim you have of a requirement for sinless perfection.

Further, your reference to verse four in this passage, alongside John 14:15, 23, proves even further that you truly do not know Christ. Because in failing to conceive of what His commandments are -- love God, love others -- and instead focusing on what you yourself can do while claiming you do it in His power despite the proof you rely only on yourself, you reveal your ignorance of the true Gospel.

Don't bother. I have nothing to learn from an unbeliever.

Also, see John 14:23 and John 14:15.May God bless you.
And may His love shine upon you.]He does, each and every day. I pray someday He does the same for you.

Before I answer this post and the other one, I have one question. Are you against Pacifism?

 

[Jason0047]

Proverbs 1 ¶ He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Reproved to do what? Evil or good?

 

[Jason0047]

You are pretty good at the above, Jason. Which makes you a troll.

There is no such thing as trolls. There are only people and God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. We are told to pray and have love towards our enemies. We are not to call them trolls even if it is a popular internet term (that you think applies). For James says if you do not bridle your tongue, your religion is in vain.

 

[elf3]

David confessed of his sin of adultery and murder. He did not continue in that life with no remorse or regret afterwards.

As for the bulk of Romans 7: Paul was talking from his perspective as a Jew who kept the Law before he was a Christian. This is obvious by the fact that Paul says in Romans 7:14 that he is sold under sin and in Romans 8:2 he says he is free from sin. For at the end of Romans 7 and in Romans 8 he is then talking as a Christian.

Do you know what Paul means by "being a slave to sin" and "now being freed from sin"? It does not mean what you think it means. It does not mean that he now no longer sins it means that now sin no longer controls his life. Before we became Christians sin ruled our lives and we were not worried about much. Now that we are Christians we strive to avoid sin. This does not mean we are no longer sinless, it means we now do not let sin control our lives. I am not perfect as I do sin still but I have the blood of Christ over me and confess my sin to God and He forgives me of my sin. This is not a condoning of sin but an understanding that God can and will forgive me when I repent. Now here is where you will say I am not a Christian because I will admit I am not sin free or perfect. According to your own understanding you must be perfect and sin free to enter heaven or even just be a Christian. I don't rely upon myself, I rely on the blood of Christ. It is what Jesus did not what I did or ever will do. You are relying on your own sinlessness and perfection to gain salvation. I rely on the sinlessness and perfection of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is also the difference between our "works" and THE work of Jesus.

When we remove Jesus in even a little area of our salvation we begin to rely upon ourselves rather than upon Jesus.

 

[Jason0047]

Do you know what Paul means by "being a slave to sin" and "now being freed from sin"? It does not mean what you think it means. It does not mean that he now no longer sins it means that now sin no longer controls his life. Before we became Christians sin ruled our lives and we were not worried about much. Now that we are Christians we strive to avoid sin. This does not mean we are no longer sinless, it means we now do not let sin control our lives. I am not perfect as I do sin still but I have the blood of Christ over me and confess my sin to God and He forgives me of my sin. This is not a condoning of sin but an understanding that God can and will forgive me when I repent. Now here is where you will say I am not a Christian because I will admit I am not sin free or perfect. According to your own understanding you must be perfect and sin free to enter heaven or even just be a Christian. I don't rely upon myself, I rely on the blood of Christ. It is what Jesus did not what I did or ever will do. You are relying on your own sinlessness and perfection to gain salvation. I rely on the sinlessness and perfection of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is also the difference between our "works" and THE work of Jesus.

When we remove Jesus in even a little area of our salvation we begin to rely upon ourselves rather than upon Jesus.

Right. So if we don't like what the Bible says, we just change it? Right? I mean, if we were talking about one passage here (that would be one thing), but we are talking about tons of passages that refute the OSAS belief. There are also passages that refute the thinking one will be a slave to sin and still be saved. For Jesus said he that sins is a slave to sin. Jesus said this to the Pharisees and he did not say this favorably of them. Paul makes a contrast between being a slave to righteousness and a slave to sin. John says he that sins is of the devil. John also says he that is born of God does righteousness.

As for our salvation and Jesus: You don't seem to understand that Christ is the author and finisher of our faith and that He was manifested to destroy the works of the devil in our lives. Jesus saves us not only in Justification but in Sanctification (i.e. in making us holy), too.

 

[gb9]

o.k. so is the Bible the word of God or not? because when you talk about verses refuting verses then you are saying that some of is correct and some is incorrect. so, it is either all true, or not to be trusted.

 

[Jason0047]

o.k. so is the Bible the word of God or not? because when you talk about verses refuting verses then you are saying that some of is correct and some is incorrect. so, it is either all true, or not to be trusted.

Are you being serious or are you just splitting hairs with words to start a fight where none exists? I believe all of the Bible is the Word of God obviously; And when I speak of refuting verses by OSAS Proponents, I am obviously speaking about refuting their wrong interpretation on the Bible.

 

[elf3]

Right. So if we don't like what the Bible says, we just change it? Right? I mean, if we were talking about one passage here (that would be one thing), but we are talking about tons of passages that refute the OSAS belief. There are also passages that refute the thinking one will be a slave to sin and still be saved. For Jesus said he that sins is a slave to sin. Jesus said this to the Pharisees and he did not say this favorably of them. Paul makes a contrast between being a slave to righteousness and a slave to sin. John says he that sins is of the devil. John also says he that is born of God does righteousness.

As for our salvation and Jesus: You don't seem to understand that Christ is the author and finisher of our faith and that He was manifested to destroy the works of the devil in our lives. Jesus saves us not only in Justification but in Sanctification (i.e. in making us holy), too.

Again you fail to understand the meaning of "being a slave to sin".

 

[Jason0047]

Again you fail to understand the meaning of "being a slave to sin".

So Jesus was complimenting the Pharisees in John 8? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense.